Author Topic: Front Sheet Metal Install  (Read 11312 times)

ko-lek-tor

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Front Sheet Metal Install
« on: October 07, 2015, 04:08:23 AM »
Talked paint to several guys at our big car show last weekend. One guy says that the front sheet metal can be 'fit', then taken off and painted separately. If this is done, he suggests drilling 1/8in. alignment pin holes in fenders and cowl. He also said that everything could be painted off the car before assembly and then installed, but that may lead to problems with the alignment. Were not the 2 holes on the top of the cowl with plastic plugs used for alignment of something? Recommendations on what works? Looked over an old post where Lucas Restrn's did a F.G. L78 (on back cover of Jerry's book) and did the stripes, D90, off the car. is that the way most do it?
I am under the impression that assembling the whole front sheet metal, Loosely, and attaching it to the front cowl, then raising sub frame up into place is the way to go, opinions? Not at that point and may be getting ahead, but want a plan. I remember some questions about order of assembly covered in other posts and John's article on the assembly process. Will re-read.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

BillOhio

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2015, 12:31:07 PM »
We put my car together, marked stripes and took it apart and painted fenders, hood, and cowl cover seperate. Had a buddy whos brother marked z   stripes on a cowl hood and he did his flat hood himself, off car. They went to put the cowl on and stripes on header and cowl didn't line up. He was upset so he grabbed the flat hood and it didn't line up either! I am thinking the one he did was even off set from center on one side!! Last disaster on the car was he screwed the wheelwell molding on and had such a long screw it went into wheel house. He should have know after the last car he had, he put long screw in front and it tried to come out fender and dented it. Probably using cordless drill
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

Kelley W King

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2015, 02:07:52 PM »
The guy who just did my brothers 68 ( he knows how picky my brother is) had him work all the gaps to his satisfaction. They then took it apart for paint and they did drill some holes and bagged the shims. It looks great.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition

cook_dw

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2015, 02:40:47 PM »
I would strongly suggest assembling all the panels and getting them aligned and do the drilling along with bagging the shims and even taking notes on measurements before paint (cross measurements etc).  And when I say assemble everything; Im talking all sheetmetal, core support, inner fenders, extensions, header, cowl, etc.  On the D90 I would paint the front portion of the stripe off the car making sure from side to side they match.  Once everything is reassembled then have the decal portion of the stripe added.

Just my $0.02

Im sure others will have better/different ideas.

See there.  When you take too long to write a post a couple people beat you to it..   ;D

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2015, 02:43:16 PM »
Thanks guys. That is how it will be done then. Should of asked you,DW, in the 1st place.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

cook_dw

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2015, 02:54:09 PM »
Several people beat me to it..  I just got side tracked at work..   ;D

ban617

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2015, 07:04:49 PM »
What kind of alignment are you trying to get factory or more of late model gaps ?

ban617

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2015, 07:09:20 PM »
The Original fender to door & door to quarterpanel gaps were 3/16 , if i'm not mistaken.. I think that the gaps are listed in the assembly manual.
    You could trim out the fenders & doors / jams align it all then paint it together ..

Sauron327

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 12:10:29 AM »
Your shop should be explaining all the options, objectives and procedures with you, as there are many. Were you speaking to qualified techs at the car show, or those who paid to have their car done? I never found the need to drill holes for panel alignment, even when someone paid the extra money to achieve perfect gaps.

JohnZ

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 06:57:52 PM »
Here's a cut-and-paste from my "First-Generation Camaro Assembly Process" paper that describes the original front sheet metal installation, followed by another alternative process from Lordstown:

"Camaro Front Sheet Metal Installation
Both plants used similar processes for front sheet metal installation, although it was done in different locations. At Van Nuys, this was done on the Trim Line with the body in an overhead carrier. At Norwood, this was done on the Final Line after body drop.

Front Sheetmetal Assembly

The "buck-built" front clip was lowered into place with an overhead hoist; two operators guided it into position, pulling the rear of the fenders outboard to clear the side shroud "saddlebags" on the body as the assembly moved rearward. The hook was then released and the hoist went back upstairs to pick up the next assembly. At this point, operator skill became critical as the shim packs were made up and stuffed in place for the top, front, side, and bottom fender-to-body attachments to achieve the correct gap and flush fits between the fenders and the body.

Establishing a perfectly square hood opening was critical, as the hood was "trapped" on all four sides by the header, fenders, and cowl vent grille; a special "hood squaring fixture" was dropped in place. It had two pins at the rear that went into the two holes in the cowl just inboard of the fenders (the ones with the little black plastic plugs in them), two pins at the front that engaged the two holes in the top of the radiator support just inboard of the diagonal brace attachments, and locator blocks on the sides for the fenders. Once the fender fit points at the rear were properly shimmed and secured, the squaring fixture was removed, and the front end was ready for the hood.

The last step prior to hood installation was to retrieve the antenna body from the R.H. hinge pillar and install it to the fender.

Hood Installation

The hinges were fixtured to the fender reinforcement and torqued, and a hood locating fixture was clamped to the top of each hinge; the hood was removed from the delivery conveyor and positioned to the hinges, where the locator fixtures positioned it fore-aft on each hinge, and the bolts were torqued. Final hood fit was established in the next station by two hood fitters who tweaked the hinges, latch, and bumpers to achieve correct gap and flush on all four sides."

Added: Lordstown "Piecemeal" Front Sheet Metal Process

Lordstown, like many other Chevrolet plants, installed front sheet metal on the Final Line, after Body Drop, a piece at a time, on the Pontiac Firebird and the Chevrolet Impala and Caprice. The radiator support, header panel, and grille went on first as a complete subassembly, pattern-shimmed to the frame horns, followed by the fenders as complete subassemblies (inner fender, outer fender, seals, plumbing, electrical, etc.). Shimming at the cowl and squaring-fixturing followed, and the hood was installed and fitted last.  :)
'69 Z/28
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68camaroz28

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 02:30:52 PM »
I would strongly suggest assembling all the panels and getting them aligned and do the drilling along with bagging the shims and even taking notes on measurements before paint (cross measurements etc).  And when I say assemble everything; Im talking all sheetmetal, core support, inner fenders, extensions, header, cowl, etc.  On the D90 I would paint the front portion of the stripe off the car making sure from side to side they match.  Once everything is reassembled then have the decal portion of the stripe added.

Just my $0.02

Im sure others will have better/different ideas.

See there.  When you take too long to write a post a couple people beat you to it..   ;D

Everyone should read or have read many times how sheet-metal was installed originally. Thanks John!
To add what Darrell suggested, also fit up window trim or any trim that might be impacted. It is amazing how far off corner window trim pieces can be. Everything possible on our 68 was put together, checked, and massaged if needed prior to dis-assemble for paint. 
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

HawkX66

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Re: Front Sheet Metal Install
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 05:25:12 PM »
I love to read and learn how the factory built the 1st Gen. All the info provided by John and others on CRG is outstanding, but in cases like this... The buck built front end is all well and good if you have a soft area to build it (scratches?), fixtures, hoists and two guys to move it as well. Not trying to be negative, but an assembly line build isn't reality for the rest of us that are building by ourselves in the garage or in smaller body shops.
 I've still got a ton to learn. No question about that. As I'm building my 69 (Bentley's 69 near twin...), I'm doing almost exactly what you guys are talking about. Build the whole car, then disassemble and paint. I just don't see where the buck built reference that is always being suggested helps. Is anyone actually doing that? If so, a modern day method explanation for Bentley and the rest of us would be a huge help.
Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi!