Author Topic: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP  (Read 13679 times)

abiddle

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How much of this is real information vs bad memory, I need some help sorting through. It was great talking to the POP original owner, he had several stories some of which were relevant but all were fun. His father bought the car for him and his brother, they shared it in high school. Racing mustangs on "the bowling alley strip and running from the cops on 42 south" seemed to be his favorite. But our conversation left me with some curiosities, I took these notes.
1. He mentioned a high performance clutch that only held up for 6 weeks. He didn't remember if it was replaced or the new clutch was standard. Its a 4 speed M21, is there any way to figure out if it still has a high perf clutch?
2. He talked about finding oversized bearings on the left side of the engine? He felt like it was important.  ???
3. He said the car absolutely did not have smog equipment on this car. From what I read, all 1969 small blocks had smog equipment. Its the original engine, but the manifolds are unreadable.
4. He also said the GM dash tach was original, so this was a dealer option I guess. Of course that was the first thing I tossed in the trash before we talked.  :'(
5. Steel wheels - red color same as the body. When I bought the car it had silver rallys with the correctly dated. Oddly they have red paint under the silver (I can see red where the silver is chipped) and they are red on the back of the wheel too. I don't see steel wheels as an option for a Norwood car.  The car has been repainted red a few decades ago, would someone actually paint rallys red?

ko-lek-tor

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 02:37:10 PM »
1) Most likely talking about an aftermarket over the counter part(s). M21 most likely not original to your car as it was not offered with a 350-300hp.
2) He was having a delusional thought from a failed memory. No such thing.
3) ONLY manual Sm. Blocks have smog in 69. If it has a provision for smog tubes, it should have smog. If not, the manifolds are either replaced or the car was originally an auto trans car.
4)Not much can be said or done about that. Need to see a pic to verify.
5)Yes, I have seen painted (different than factory) Ralleys. Steel wheels were not an option, they were what you got if you did not check off an optional wheel like a ralley.
All this info is useless without a picture collection of relevant items, like the trim tag, dash, wheels, POP, Trans code etc..Right now, it is just speculation. How many owners between you and original owner? Any # of owners could have switched/painted parts etc.. and do not rely on geezers (like him or me) to have a faultless memory. Us old guys have been known to embellish things too. Another thing, just 'cause (I assume Father's name) his name is on POP, does not mean he was the original owner, it could have been sold under warranty and a new POP issued with some alterations done prior to his ownership. And 2 brothers shared car? No telling what was changed or done that each would have a different recollection or story. Good luck, welcome to the site and let us learn more about you, your car and how you came about owning it. Thanks.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 02:59:14 PM »
Thanks ko-lek-ter. A long time ago I decoded this stuff, but my memory is probably as bad as the original owner's memory. The POP was in the glove box when I bought it, it looks like the POP was made to both of the brothers. I'm pretty sure they were the original owners. Pictures of the POP and the trim tag attached.

jdv69z

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 03:03:00 PM »
It looks to me like there are no smog provisions in the manifolds in the pic, so those are for auto trans.
Jimmy V.

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 03:18:21 PM »
POP reads
T1107HA Tonawanda Nov 07 (1968) 350ci/300HP L48 4 speed
P9R31 4-speed Muncie Model year 9 October 31

from the CRG decode, when I don't have a suffix how do I read this? Why does it say Muncie M2x when no suffix?

   s  = suffix
       PowerGlide and TH350 (not used on all):
          D = day shift
          N = night shift
       1969 Muncie 3-speed
          B = 2.42 first gear ratio
       1969 Muncie 4-speed only:
          A = M20
          B = M21     Use of the Muncie type suffix
          C = M22     began with 21 Oct 68 production.
         
   Examples:

     R7S21  Saginaw 4-speed, Nov 21, 1966
     P8R01  Muncie M2x 4-speed, Oct 01, 1967
     P9T11B Muncie M21 4-speed, Dec 11, 1968

cook_dw

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 03:18:56 PM »
The manifolds are for an auto.  You can see in the last pic the raised boss area and bolt hole (or rivet cant remember) in the center port of the manifold for the heat stove pipe that goes up to the air cleaner.

Can you get a better pic of the just the pop plate?  Thanks, Darrell

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2015, 03:42:22 PM »
POP close-up, when I found this in the glove box I had no idea how important it would be.

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 03:54:41 PM »
In the L48 SS package, CRG says the package includes "clutch". Maybe this is "performance clutch" Derl (original owner) was thinking of?

Super Sport Package: incl special engine,
dual exhaust, springs, tires, clutch, radiator,
MC1 transmission (in 69), axle and u-joints,
starting motor, hood, badging, and stripes.


BULLITT65

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 04:57:06 PM »
Well who can fault a guy for loving garnet red? (Even painting the wheels red)

 8)

1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

1968 Z28

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 05:11:06 PM »
In the L48 SS package, CRG says the package includes "clutch". Maybe this is "performance clutch" Derl (original owner) was thinking of?

Super Sport Package: incl special engine,
dual exhaust, springs, tires, clutch, radiator,
MC1 transmission (in 69), axle and u-joints,
starting motor, hood, badging, and stripes.


The mention of "Clutch" is due to the L48, manual shift option, being equipped with an 11" clutch as opposed to the 10.4".
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

BULLITT65

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 05:33:11 PM »
So moving up to the L48 mandated that you got the 11" clutch?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2015, 06:58:07 PM »
Answering my own question on the muncie code. POP plate stamped P9R31 (4-speed Muncie Model year 9 October 31 with no suffix).
Transmission stamped P9R31A, so this is an M20. Not a very good picture, I don't fit under the car like I used to.  :o

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 07:40:20 PM »
Hi everyone - thanks for the help. This is my camaro, first time out of the garage in 5 years. Took awhile to figure out my issue(s), rebuilt the carb and new coil and replaced the points with pertronix then new gas and plugs etc, and magically it came back to life. Lots of little old wiring/lights issues, I need a rear harness and both parking light wires are "touchy". But if I run around the car and squeeze all the wires just right, all of the lights work at least for a few miles.

Any suggestions where I should buy the rear harness and parking light wires to maintain original appearances?

Thanks - Andy

1968RSZ28

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2015, 08:01:50 PM »
Any suggestions where I should buy the rear harness and parking light wires to maintain original appearances?

Lectric Limited Inc...  https://www.lectriclimited.com/

Paul

BULLITT65

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2015, 08:03:57 PM »
Man that is a lot of red....
Red on Red (with red endura bumper) and then someone painted the wheels red at one point, and then the redline tires.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2015, 08:55:57 PM »
Yep, and red custom interior. Glad I like red. But I'm not sure if I like red enough to go back to the original red steel wheels instead of the rallys. I can't find steel wheels anywhere, anyway.
Thanks for the tip on Lectriclimited, I just placed an order now.
Andy

1968 Z28

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 07:10:38 PM »
So moving up to the L48 mandated that you got the 11" clutch?
Yup.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

KurtS

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2015, 03:31:44 PM »
Nothing special about a stock clutch.
It had smog - http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtml#usage
Wheels - could have had steel wheels  Or he doesn't remember painting the rallys   http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#wcovers
Tach - have to see a pic.
Kurt S
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bcmiller

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 04:37:06 PM »
Great looking car. Welcome to the site. When you have a chance, try to send a better picture of the transmission stamp to me, or to Kurt.  Thanks!
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 05:48:50 PM »
Here's a better pic of the muncie stamp.

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 08:02:22 PM »
Picture of the 519 interior requested by Bryan. So many caveats on this pic. The seats were reupholstered and I reconditioned the door panels and put new carpet in. The console is not original to the car and is not actually installed, but I hated not having a place to put my stuff and i like having a place to set the seatbelts - so I got the console on ebay. If I ever decide to finish the car and do shows I would remove the console, since its not an actual option on this car. Not bolted down, not wired, and I didn't even change the black shift ball which conflicts with a console'd car. Dash pad is obviously a repro. Ok, whatever is left is original.  ;D

KurtS

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2015, 08:22:12 PM »
Bryon,
Actually, it's welcome back. Andrew was a member here 10 years ago. :)

Andrew,
So no tach since it's a fuel gauge dash.
And if I recall, the belts used to be black standards.  :)
Kurt S
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abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2015, 08:46:52 PM »
Yes no tach and no clock guages. Hence the dealer option tach.

Wow, yes I forgot I changed out the standard black seat belts for the red custom ones. I've got the original black ones still. Do you have pictures I posted 10 years ago???  :o

KurtS

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2015, 03:44:17 AM »
Not of the interior, but of the tag and the POP, yes. :)
Kurt S
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bcmiller

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2015, 05:33:02 AM »
Bryon,
Actually, it's welcome back. Andrew was a member here 10 years ago. :)

Nice!  I didn't know that.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

cook_dw

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2015, 11:53:31 AM »
Bryon,
Actually, it's welcome back. Andrew was a member here 10 years ago. :)

Nice!  I didn't know that.


Because "Big Brother" is always watching.. ;D 

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2015, 02:47:50 PM »
Hi Kurt and Jerry - so no one has found a documented RPO MA6 heavy duty clutch? A unicorn perhaps. I have in my notes from the original owner "high perf clutch held up for 6 weeks", so I'm willing to chase whatever I can look at - if there is anything to look for. He also told me about oversized bearings on the left side of the engine, so I'm not saying anything is true or accurate. Just fun.

He also told me the no spoiler, so that will be coming off. He said his father paid $4600 for the car, and he sold it to his neighbor after they wrecked it and parked it in the barn - for $2000. :)
His wife sent me a scan of a photo from their weeding album with just married on the camaro rear window, this was many years ago. Sadly I've lost that picture.

BULLITT65

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2015, 02:57:24 PM »
do you have any early photos of when they first purchased it without the spoiler? Or a pic after the the wreck?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2015, 03:12:10 PM »
No the only picture she said they had was in their wedding album. Typical "Just Married" pic of the rear windshield. It didn't show the entire car, wouldn't that have been nice. But I can't even find that.

abiddle

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Re: 1969 camaro SS 350 unrestored - I called the original owner from POP
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2015, 08:17:09 PM »
I found this so nevermind, the MA6 is no unicorn.

Production totals for MA6 in a Camaro was the big zero. Engine build records confirm it.

Kurt S
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anything