Author Topic: The Hugger goes ZL-1....  (Read 15520 times)

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2015, 05:33:52 AM »
not bad at all. Keep the updates and pics coming.
I will! ;)
As long as I have something new, the updates will show here but as I said in the beginning I don't have a specific date when the motor has to be finished so this trip can take a while....!  :P
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 09:42:13 AM »
Well, now we have a block but it takes a couple of things more to get a motor running...a whole lot of things actually :rolleyes:

The carb, Holley 750 CFM, and the cowl air cleaner will be moved from the current 355, they not that bad for the ZL-1 either I guess...?

..but a new intake manifold for BB has to added to the new-parts-list! The original intake for the ZL-1 is the #3933198 as we understand and they are not hard to find but rather expensive so we had something else in mind when we started do discuss the motor...

After a while we found exactly what we were lookin for, the Edelbrock C427X. As we understand it was one of the best hi performance intakes during the 60-70:ies and were commonly used by a couple of racing team including Baldwin Motion?! A hot rod version of a ZL-1 isn't bad either and if we got the that intake to a good price...hey!  8)

After searching Ebay for a couple of weeks we suddenly found that nice unrestored and untouched piece that we wanted and for a neat price of $ 110!




The intake is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be sand blasted and painted silver, just cleaned in a proper alu-friendly way and then we have to see if it need more TLC!  :-*
We want to keep that old school look in the engine bay....
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2015, 12:21:30 PM »
Connecting rods is a must and this is what we found at eBay:


These rods are one the best that GM made and was made for high performance engines such as the L88, ZL1 and LS7. They are full floating dot rods, 7/16 bolt, magnafluxed and shot peened.

Here´s a close-up of the small end where you can see the full floating. The characteristic "dot" is also seen here and this is why they were called "dot rods"!


I also got some info on the net regarding these rods:
Chevy highperformance “dot” rod with 7/16-inch rod bolts is still a good choice for engines up to about 700 hp. There were three versions of these rods: one with 3/8-inch rod bolts and pressed pins (1965– 1969), one with 7/16- inch rod bolts and pressed pins (LS-6 and LS-7), and a version with 7/16-inch boron rod bolts and full-floating pins, which was used in Chevy’s killer big-blocks, like the L88 and ZL-1.
 
...it also a rumor that's says that Smokey Yunick is the brain behind the "dot rods", true or not?!
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

1971ls6

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2015, 08:21:34 PM »
I just finished my ZL-1 last week. I bought the same block, they are up to $5,200 now, I bought mine in March when they were 5k, I had a 10 percent coupon from autorama and it saved me $500.

The blue freeze plugs are the older ones, new are black. Make sure your engine builder checks the line bore, they had an issue in the past.

The 163 intake is the same as the 198, without the divider cut down. I found my 198 for $350. The correct 074 heads are $2,500 done, minimum.

I had pistons made by diamond with 11.5 compression to run on 93 octane, no issues at all. Mine made 550 with a solid cam and cast iron exhaust manifolds, headers are worth at least 50hp on this motor.
69 Copo 12.28 @ 117.50 4spd on polyglas
71 LS6 vette 12.31@118 mph PSMCDR

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2015, 02:29:06 PM »
The blue freeze plugs are the older ones, new are black. Make sure your engine builder checks the line bore, they had an issue in the past.

Mine made 550 with a solid cam and cast iron exhaust manifolds, headers are worth at least 50hp on this motor.
Interesting info there....what kind of issues? I bought my block for 4900 from a private person so I can't make any complaints if there's an issue with the line bore! :(
This intake is not an original one...it's the C427X from Edelbrock!
Sound great with that type of power figures....we're going to run this motor with headers from Hooker, like in the old days!  8) ....so you mean that we could get closer to 600 then? Did you run yours in a dynotest?
Pics wanted, of course!  ;D
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2015, 07:30:21 AM »
Have done som cleaning tests on the intake. This is how looked when it arrived, as you remember. But the pics from the seller are little twisted regarding color....the intake wasn't brown when it arrived...




...and after at gentle washing with a low concentrated wheel cleaner with oxalic acid it got a little better:


I then went out and bought oxalic acid in powder and made my own mixture/concentration. Then made some washing again but it didn't make any big difference:




The intake look ok for now, I really want that that old original look and I´m NOT going to glass blast it!
All original threads seems to be ok but we'll see how they really are the day everything is going back on the motor.
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

169INDY

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2015, 02:53:32 AM »
This is what I use.
Brass brush, 3M Scotch-Brite Greenie, Lots of rinse water,
Pic.
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2015, 10:14:53 PM »
Finally the container with goddies for the ZL-1 arrived to Sweden and my hometown!  :P

The first thing to unpack was the crankshaft! As usual we found this used one at eBay for the right price again!
As I understand it this one is identical to the ones original used in the ZL-1 engines and also ised in the L88 engine.
It has the casting number#7115, I understand that the Chevrolet part number was 3967811. Also found some info on the website from Heartbeat City, but I don´t know if it´s correct:

NOS ZL-1 Crankshaft: Many people do not realize GM used two crankshafts for the ZL-1 engines. The early crankshaft shown in pictures features the casting number #3856223. This is a genuine GM crankshaft in the original GM box. The original GM part number is 3967811. The other number GM used, which is more common is the #7115 crankshaft. This is more common and typically was used late in 1969 and for service. This makes no difference as the crankshafts are the same for all intents and purposes. This crankshaft is factory 5140 steel tuftrided and cross drilled heavy duty crankshaft. This is the strongest crankshaft produced from the finest materials in the day.


Our crank is a used one but seems to be in good shape....but that will be a descesion for the engine shop to make when they balance it... ::)

Good, and useful, typical american instruktions for lifting the heavy crank:


Out of the box:


Cast number:


In descent condition:
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2015, 12:25:47 PM »
The collecting of engine parts continues....
There were two other boxes that arrived with the crank... ;D


The heads were extremely well taken care of for transportation, that´s good! But it was a real mess to get every little plastic chip out from all small cavitations in the heads, I promise you!  :P


A big part of an engines character depends of the cylinder heads. As you are well aware of an original ZL-1 from 1969 had the heads with die cast number 3946074, aka the #074. These heads are quite common on eBay but often goes for high prices. It´s strange but if you struggle for the originality they are the way to go and pricing goes in the same direction I guess... ::) Since our effort here is to get something close to original but not a number matching ZL-1 clone so why not go for something more spectacular like a pair of period correct "over the counter" cylinder heads from Chevrolet?

Decision made and the hunt begun...These heads, probably made for racing, has 14011077 as casting number and are often known as the #077-heads. They are not as easy as the #074 ones to find at eBay but if you´re patient you can get some for the right money....and we did!
These ones seems to be in a very good shape as being used parts and also complete with valves and springs.




Both the #074 and the #077 were Chevrolets first heads with open-chambered design. The big difference between these different heads are the design of the exhaust ports. The D-shape, or C-shape, of the #077-head is the major difference. It is said that the #077-heads will get you like 30-40 extra horsepower compare to the #074 ones.....?! :o
Here is a pic where you can see the D-shape clearly:


As mentioned before the #077-heads were "over the counter" and were never standard on any engine from Chevrolet. They were made for racing purpose only. The story is that the special shape of the exhaust port probably was a thing that TRACO, who cooperated with Chevrolet during this period, tested and found out that it worked out great. TRACO got more horsepower out from their engines, maybe due to the heads, than the engineers from Chevrolet and it´s possible that Smokey Yunick got hold of an TRACO Can Am-engine and copied the D-shape ports.

The first series of the #077-heads were made in the mid of the production year 1969 and they didn't come with a cast date number, I've been told. If I look closer at our heads I found some numbers that could be the casting date but I'm not sure how to decode them?
The #077-heads were produced as long as in the 1990:ies....

One of the heads could have been made the 2:ond of October 1974, 1984 or 1994?


...and the other one the 20:th of November 1974, 1984 or 1994?


When ever they were made they really seem to be in an excellent condition. No cracks or welding as I can see. No helicoil inserts and they have never been media blasted or painted either. The valves are stainless and appears to be brand new. The machine work done for the valves must be professionally made, the way it looks. I did a test with red spirit on the valves and they did not leak at all.




The exhaust ports have gotten some small grinding jobs too:


I don't think the light surface rust on the springs will be an issue when the motor is up for assembly but who knows..?

Please fell free to complete the history of these heads or correct me if I have written something wrong!  :)
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
    • View Profile
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2015, 05:34:29 PM »
Any updates?

A few observations. 

The 7115 crank can be found in other engines, even some 366 truck engines had them.

The original GM intakes are not that hard to find, and in my humble opinion would look better on the car if you are going for a somewhat period correct look. But the one you have will be fine.

I have always heard the term "dimple" for those rods, but a dimple is usually indented.  So probably not really the correct terminology. But that is the word everyone I know uses for them.

074 heads are not that hard to find either, if you check with old drag racers. The ones I have were welded on, but received some nice port work and will probably flow just about as good as the 077s. I got mine for under 400 bucks at a swap meet and they just needed the valves lapped.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
    • View Profile
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2015, 05:42:53 PM »
Maybe they should be called pimpled..  This was the same as the LS6 blocked blown bb I just finished building.  Stock rod with ARP bolts & SRP pistons.  475ci.



Darrell Cook

Contact me if you have a 68 L78/L89 Camaro to add it to my database.

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2015, 09:57:29 AM »
Any updates?

A few observations. 

The 7115 crank can be found in other engines, even some 366 truck engines had them.

The original GM intakes are not that hard to find, and in my humble opinion would look better on the car if you are going for a somewhat period correct look. But the one you have will be fine.

I have always heard the term "dimple" for those rods, but a dimple is usually indented.  So probably not really the correct terminology. But that is the word everyone I know uses for them.

074 heads are not that hard to find either, if you check with old drag racers. The ones I have were welded on, but received some nice port work and will probably flow just about as good as the 077s. I got mine for under 400 bucks at a swap meet and they just needed the valves lapped.
Hi,
Nope, this is the latest update! ;)
I've some incoming parts from the US but I think they'll arrive middle of Jan earliest!  :-\

As I mentioned in earlier posts we're not going for a super stock ZL-1 here so the intake and the heads are chosen by a purpose!  :P....both economical, period correct and more fun!  ;D
The intake aswell as the heads was more made for racing as I understand it and they will increase the already high amount amount of horsepower that a original ZL-1 has! :P

Regarding the dimple I agree with you....maybe a better explanation is that the surface has microskopic dimples in it due to the surface hardening process from the shot peening?

I didn't say the #074 heads are hard to find, actually there are more of them out there now then before, but they are rather expensive cause of the hunt for originality.....and we think it's more fun and more unusual to build a period correct but spicier ZL-1!  ;)

Thanx for you're observations and I'm glad you joined us here in the thread, keep the posts coming!  :D
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2015, 09:59:25 AM »
Maybe they should be called pimpled..  This was the same as the LS6 blocked blown bb I just finished building.  Stock rod with ARP bolts & SRP pistons.  475ci.

Nice work, Darrel! Any pics of the motor?


Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
    • View Profile
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2015, 01:58:21 PM »
I have over 170 pics of just the engine build but Ill just give you the before and afters. :)

Before







After








Side pic.  The before and afters on the valve covers, timing cover & air cleaner.







Darrell Cook

Contact me if you have a 68 L78/L89 Camaro to add it to my database.

hgger69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Hugger orange rules!
    • View Profile
    • Håkans Motorsida
Re: The Hugger goes ZL-1....
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2015, 02:53:44 PM »
Really cool engine, Darrel!  8)
Goes in what car?
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com