Interesting Z on ebay

[BULLITT65]

Well it could be some shill bidding taking place.

I suspect it will not go much higher, and reserve not met, and then listed again for 75k Buy it now.

[wtexz10]

Just curious....how much value does the original window sticker add?  He's seems to think a lot.

[BULLITT65]

It is a plus to have it, but IMO it wouldn't out weigh the original motor, trans, or rear end.
I would put it on par with the Protecto plate, or original invoice.  It may be more rare to run across than the pop, but it is more of a secondary item.
Primary items to me would be original body, vin tag and firewall tag, motor, trans, rear.
Other members may see it differently than I though

[ko-lek-tor]

Just curious....how much value does the original window sticker add?  He's seems to think a lot.

Well, that is an interesting question? To some, that paper means nothing. To others, it means everything. They are people known as purists. When they restore a car, they actually RESTORE a car, meaning returning it back as it once was in its original state ( the very essence and definition of restore). To others, restore means, well, what ever they want the car to be including modifications, embellishments, non OEM options added. A purist wants the car exactly as it left the factory and that piece of paper is essential and gold to that type who would not know how a car came without that paper. Documentation in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush...may want to look up where that comes from BTW.

[BULLITT65]

Ok the car is back up on Ebay Starting at 50K, no bids as of yet.

But he states: " Jerry Macneish has valued this car at $100,000. Part of this is due to the rare color combination and the TRUE original window sticker."

So I guess thats where is coming up with those high figures..

[69 Zee]

It is a plus to have it, but IMO it wouldn't out weigh the original motor, trans, or rear end.
I would put it on par with the Protecto plate, or original invoice.  It may be more rare to run across than the pop, but it is more of a secondary item.
Primary items to me would be original body, vin tag and firewall tag, motor, trans, rear.

Totally agree Austin.
Seller should of taken the $75K earlier and ran!  How can this Z have that kind of value with so much wrong ?  Don't forget it has a block dated 2 months after the body build date and a rear dated almost 6 months earlier as well as a brake booster that must have been painted when the body was.

The $100,000 value by JM ?  Should of posted that pic  :0   Would JM really put this kind of value on a Z that ONLY RETAINS an orig window sticker and unique color ?

[BULLITT65]

May have been a tongue in cheek comment to make the guy feel good for spending a lot to restore the car, it may be under the comments section on the report though...

I hear what you are saying about the dates on the motor trans and rear, BUT I am unsure how that plays into the buyers mind.

I mean once it doesn't have the original block, how much does it matter that it is dated way before the build date, or well after it??

The way I look at it, maybe it would have a little extra value having a CE block in it?Vs. a date correct block?
 Just throwing that out there.

[X33RS]

I agree, I don't think most buyers really worry all too much about matching numbers.  10's of thousands of muscle cars out there missing their original engine, and likely will never see them again.

 Nice to at least have a correct date coded replacement but again I don't think it's all that critical.  Once the original engine is long gone, just having a correct replacement type of engine with the right components on it is enough to satisfy most people out there.  It still feels and drives like a DZ.   Most important in my eyes is just having the foundation, the fact that it's a "real" Z is getting to be a real challenge to find nowadays, let alone worry about the drivetrain.  What I'm sick of seeing is Z28 badges on every Camaro ever made, and worse, people trying to pass them off as such.

Nice car, if I were on the market with that kind of dough, I'd buy it.

Could look at it another way, there are a handful of "real" Z's I've seen forsale, some with original engines, some questionable.   I'm talking cars that need full blown restorations from top to bottom.  Owners are wanting $35k or more for a car that needs completely restored. 
   Ask yourself,  How much would it take to completely do a frame off correct type of restoration to the level of the car in this thread?  This car isn't even what I would consider concours quality, but a very nice example.  Just some rough numbers, but lets take into consideration the people out there that have to sub out everything.  Paint and body work....$20 to $30k??  There are shops around here that won't even simply spray a car for less than $10k.   Taking it down to a rotisserie and doing it right??  Most shops charging upwards of $100 an hour labor??  The total amount of parts and pieces to buy is immense.  Want NOS stuff??  Even good quality reproduction will nickel and dime you to death.  When done, you can easily surpass $60k to $75k investment when you're paying $35k for a car to start with.  Those sellers don't want to admit it but it's reality for most people, and most likely why these cars are forsale in the rough shape that you see them in.
    Even at $75k  a car like this starts to look like a bargain.   Still kind of spendy for a 69 Z in my eyes but restoration costs add up quick.  I'd spend $75k on a car like this before I'd spend $35k on one that needs completely restored.  Plenty of others at a lower level of restoration in the $50-$60k range as well.   Just a different way to put things in perspective. 
 

[69 Zee]

My point is that there's nice drive-train originals out there for that asking price.  Why would anyone not go that route if your about to drop $75K ?   Dozens of nice looking non drive-line Z's out there in the mid $50's to low $60's.  Yes, all original Z's are getting hard to find but "real" Z shells are not.  At this point one's only paying for the unique color... odd !  JMO   

[X33RS]

I've even seen a few matching number Z's in the $60k range that are decently restored, but nothing concours correct, so yeah I agree this car is a lot of money, and I don't mean to come across as justifying the car.  Just giving a different perspective as to how a potential buyer may view the car if they have gone down the restoration route themselves and knowing what's involved.

I don't put a ton of emphasis on matching number drivetrain.  It's nice, but not a killjoy for me.

[BULLITT65]

I've even seen a few matching number Z's in the $60k range that are decently restored, but nothing concours correct, so yeah I agree this car is a lot of money, and I don't mean to come across as justifying the car.  Just giving a different perspective as to how a potential buyer may view the car if they have gone down the restoration route themselves and knowing what's involved.

I don't put a ton of emphasis on matching number drivetrain.  It's nice, but not a killjoy for me.

Ok, I would split hairs here.
What I was saying above was once you have a replacement block, I am not sure if date correct plays a factor. BUT I do think a numbers matching drivetrain is a HUGE bonus.
Look everyone has there own idea of what is worth more to them, or perceived value.

#1 You want to make sure it is an original Z

The very next thing (for me ) would be to check if it still retains any of the original drivetrain components . I am not going to say the car isn't worth getting if the motor isn't original, but there is a significant hit to the value of the car, if it is not the motor it left the factory with.

That is why there are so many re-stamps, or " creative " descriptions when it comes to if the block is the original.
I think this is also reflected in the sold prices of cars with the original drive train vs. those with a replacement block.

If this is not a priority of the buyer, good for them, they may perceive more value in a rare color combo then original-to-the-car drive train.
Time will tell which direction the value of these cars go in, but if you are in it for the right reasons (and already own one), then the crazy price scale is just entertainment   

[X33RS]

I agree, there is definitely something to be said about matching numbers and I don't mean to discard that in any way.    I have a few classics here with matching numbers, and a few more that aren't.  I'm okay with either one.   What I won't usually do is pay a hefty $25k+ price increase just for matching numbers on what are otherwise 2 identical cars.   I'll take the cheaper one with a correct engine replacement (not necessarily date code correct either) and enjoy the heck out of it. 

I'm not implying that's what is going on here but it's just one persons perspective on things.

Once you start paying big dollars for matching everything and correct this or that, you suddenly have a car you are afraid to take out and enjoy, especially a low mile one you don't want to rack miles up on.  I have a car like that, it's the most boring car in the stable (for me).

[dannystarr]

JUST MY opinion...Pole a hundred people and get 25 different opinions or more. I am a numbers guy thru and thru. I have passed on many cars years ago that were not numbers matching. Did there value go up.. probably yes... Should I have bought them anyway and made a profit years later.. Probably yes.. But there is just no replacement for a matching numbers drive train. That includes all POP's, Sticker's, build sheets, Factory headers, crossram what ever you have.. if it's not a numbers matching drive train, I am not interested. Because it can be documented WITHOUT one piece of paper for the next 100 years! Original engine gone, and maybe ya want a daily ride.. That would be fine, beat on it and have some fun. But not Z/28.. Do you KNOW how many times I was asked last Saturday and Sunday at 2 different car shows... IS IT A NUMBERS MATCHING DRIVE TRAIN? Maybe 40 times... For me, I need to be able to say YES!.. Original engine gone means a drop of at least 25 to 35 thousand dollars. I don't care if it's a Yenko, COPO what ever... Again, JMO... Danny

[BSMIT59]

Everyone has their own perspective when it comes to what they want. I joined this group to learn more about my cars and methods of restoration to have a true Camaro. As to #'s matching, I absolutely agree that if you're in it for profit , then that is the way to go. But for a slow southern good 'ol boy such as myself, when I hit the starter and let the clutch out nobody knows whether the numbers match or not and I enjoy the hell out of it. For me its the ultimate experience just to go cruising and enjoy the ride! To each his own but don't forget to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[firstgenaddict]

I like that color combo and wish you could have got the white stripes without the white roof.
IMHO Gold with white interior and white stripes would have looked great and been different.

BTW that is 90 miles away if anyone wants eyes laid on it.