Author Topic: Interesting Z on ebay  (Read 16050 times)

BULLITT65

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Interesting Z on ebay
« on: July 16, 2015, 09:11:51 AM »
Hey Guys saw this Gold Z in a somewhat rare color combo of white stripes/white vinyl top, and with a white interior.
Also has a X ram set up, and certified by Jerry

$71K reserve not met.

It is a clean car, but I can't figure out if guys are bidding more for the rare color combo, or because of the X- ram

Lets see what it bids up to!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-/151743094661?forcerrptr=true&hash=item235497df85&item=151743094661
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

x66 714

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2015, 11:12:37 AM »
Neat car. Too bad he put all the other stuff on it. It would've been even more unique if built as the window sticker indicated...Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

Stingr69

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2015, 12:41:28 PM »
Great docs and rare combination.  The cross ram would come off and go back on eBay if it were mine. Its all about the documented original AND unusual combination.

X33RS

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2015, 12:48:28 PM »
Yep saw that a couple days ago when it first popped up.

My all time favorite color combo.  Love the golds, and coupled with white it just makes a stunning visual and very classy.  Not to mention a much cooler cockpit to go cruising in  ;)

paceme

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2015, 01:38:00 PM »
Unique yes, but 71k for a non-original drivetrain Z????
Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles.  The Supercar Registry-www.yenko.net-

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2015, 03:40:06 PM »
Neat car. Too bad he put all the other stuff on it. It would've been even more unique if built as the window sticker indicated...Joe

Well by that you mean he would have had to have some kind of docs for the X ram and hood? I assume you could have run the X ram with a flat hood?

Only other things that caught my eye were: Top post battery, Antenna, should have a Z23 steering wheel, (passenger side mirror added, front bumper guards added), and some small item under the hood like incorrect hoses.

I agree seems like a bit much for a Z car with non original drive train, but it will be interesting if the bids are real to see where it goes...
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

jdv69z

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 03:48:10 PM »
So what's an original cross ram set up go for these days? I'm assuming this one is all GM?
Jimmy V.

rszmjt

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 05:07:29 PM »
So what's an original cross ram set up go for these days? I'm assuming this one is all GM?

It has Repo carbs, I doubt it is a Original GM crossram manifold, probably a current repo. Repo setups typicaly $3-$5K

1968RSZ28

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 05:22:48 PM »
I'll give him double the price on the original window sticker!  ;)

Paul

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 11:19:38 PM »
Was this car at Mecum Indy a few years back?

1968RSZ28

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69 Zee

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2015, 01:59:55 AM »
I saw it several days ago and likewise thought it was a very sharp color combo.  It really stood out. 

Is it the color combo,  the power of the certification or both that's bringing in the $$  ???

The highly talked about rare 1/1 Evening Orchid 69 Z (over on Team Camaro) only sold for $59K after it's restoration back in 2014 (Though coming up on Mecum at the end of the month will be interesting).  The EO painted Z had original drive-train, plenty of doc's and is even rarer in aspect to color combo.   I don't believe it was ever certified as EO but instead Cortez silver w/stripe delete.

Hmmmmmmm !
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 02:35:37 AM »
I thought of , the car that not be mentioned(EO) :-X , as well, and the thought ran through my head of "rare" doesn't always = desirable .

I would not have posted a link except that this car has some bids that went unexpectedly high considering NOM drivetrain.

That and the fact the color combo may feed into that high bidding  ???
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 05:36:20 PM »
update: Buy-it-now $91,500.

?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69 Zee

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 06:24:58 PM »
Wow..  ???  I get it that the value is only worth what one will pay.  But that just blows me away.  How can there be a huge $35K plus spread  from any other non born with drive-train Z out there ?  Is the color combo worth $35 large ?  Not in my book... JMO !
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2015, 06:58:48 PM »
Well it could be some shill bidding taking place.

I suspect it will not go much higher, and reserve not met, and then listed again for 75k Buy it now.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

wtexz10

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2015, 10:56:09 PM »
Just curious....how much value does the original window sticker add?  He's seems to think a lot.
69 Camaro Z10.. 72 GMC C1500
79 Mazda RX7.. 79 Trans Am WS6
06 Corvette Z06.. 10 BMW 650i

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2015, 11:03:22 PM »
It is a plus to have it, but IMO it wouldn't out weigh the original motor, trans, or rear end.
I would put it on par with the Protecto plate, or original invoice.  It may be more rare to run across than the pop, but it is more of a secondary item.
Primary items to me would be original body, vin tag and firewall tag, motor, trans, rear.
Other members may see it differently than I though
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2015, 11:08:49 PM »
Just curious....how much value does the original window sticker add?  He's seems to think a lot.
Well, that is an interesting question? To some, that paper means nothing. To others, it means everything. They are people known as purists. When they restore a car, they actually RESTORE a car, meaning returning it back as it once was in its original state ( the very essence and definition of restore). To others, restore means, well, what ever they want the car to be including modifications, embellishments, non OEM options added. A purist wants the car exactly as it left the factory and that piece of paper is essential and gold to that type who would not know how a car came without that paper. Documentation in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush...may want to look up where that comes from BTW.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM »
Ok the car is back up on Ebay Starting at 50K, no bids as of yet.

But he states: " Jerry Macneish has valued this car at $100,000. Part of this is due to the rare color combination and the TRUE original window sticker."

So I guess thats where is coming up with those high figures..
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69 Zee

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 03:10:41 AM »
It is a plus to have it, but IMO it wouldn't out weigh the original motor, trans, or rear end.
I would put it on par with the Protecto plate, or original invoice.  It may be more rare to run across than the pop, but it is more of a secondary item.
Primary items to me would be original body, vin tag and firewall tag, motor, trans, rear.
Totally agree Austin.
Seller should of taken the $75K earlier and ran!  How can this Z have that kind of value with so much wrong ?  Don't forget it has a block dated 2 months after the body build date and a rear dated almost 6 months earlier as well as a brake booster that must have been painted when the body was.

The $100,000 value by JM ?  Should of posted that pic  :0   Would JM really put this kind of value on a Z that ONLY RETAINS an orig window sticker and unique color ?
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 03:58:55 AM »
May have been a tongue in cheek comment to make the guy feel good for spending a lot to restore the car, it may be under the comments section on the report though...

I hear what you are saying about the dates on the motor trans and rear, BUT I am unsure how that plays into the buyers mind.

I mean once it doesn't have the original block, how much does it matter that it is dated way before the build date, or well after it??

The way I look at it, maybe it would have a little extra value having a CE block in it?Vs. a date correct block?
 Just throwing that out there.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

X33RS

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 12:31:20 PM »
I agree, I don't think most buyers really worry all too much about matching numbers.  10's of thousands of muscle cars out there missing their original engine, and likely will never see them again.

 Nice to at least have a correct date coded replacement but again I don't think it's all that critical.  Once the original engine is long gone, just having a correct replacement type of engine with the right components on it is enough to satisfy most people out there.  It still feels and drives like a DZ.   Most important in my eyes is just having the foundation, the fact that it's a "real" Z is getting to be a real challenge to find nowadays, let alone worry about the drivetrain.  What I'm sick of seeing is Z28 badges on every Camaro ever made, and worse, people trying to pass them off as such.

Nice car, if I were on the market with that kind of dough, I'd buy it.

Could look at it another way, there are a handful of "real" Z's I've seen forsale, some with original engines, some questionable.   I'm talking cars that need full blown restorations from top to bottom.  Owners are wanting $35k or more for a car that needs completely restored. 
   Ask yourself,  How much would it take to completely do a frame off correct type of restoration to the level of the car in this thread?  This car isn't even what I would consider concours quality, but a very nice example.  Just some rough numbers, but lets take into consideration the people out there that have to sub out everything.  Paint and body work....$20 to $30k??  There are shops around here that won't even simply spray a car for less than $10k.   Taking it down to a rotisserie and doing it right??  Most shops charging upwards of $100 an hour labor??  The total amount of parts and pieces to buy is immense.  Want NOS stuff??  Even good quality reproduction will nickel and dime you to death.  When done, you can easily surpass $60k to $75k investment when you're paying $35k for a car to start with.  Those sellers don't want to admit it but it's reality for most people, and most likely why these cars are forsale in the rough shape that you see them in.
    Even at $75k  a car like this starts to look like a bargain.   Still kind of spendy for a 69 Z in my eyes but restoration costs add up quick.  I'd spend $75k on a car like this before I'd spend $35k on one that needs completely restored.  Plenty of others at a lower level of restoration in the $50-$60k range as well.   Just a different way to put things in perspective. 
 

69 Zee

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 01:02:35 PM »
My point is that there's nice drive-train originals out there for that asking price.  Why would anyone not go that route if your about to drop $75K ?   Dozens of nice looking non drive-line Z's out there in the mid $50's to low $60's.  Yes, all original Z's are getting hard to find but "real" Z shells are not.  At this point one's only paying for the unique color... odd !  JMO   ;)
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

X33RS

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 01:33:49 PM »
I've even seen a few matching number Z's in the $60k range that are decently restored, but nothing concours correct, so yeah I agree this car is a lot of money, and I don't mean to come across as justifying the car.  Just giving a different perspective as to how a potential buyer may view the car if they have gone down the restoration route themselves and knowing what's involved.

I don't put a ton of emphasis on matching number drivetrain.  It's nice, but not a killjoy for me.



BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 02:12:20 PM »
I've even seen a few matching number Z's in the $60k range that are decently restored, but nothing concours correct, so yeah I agree this car is a lot of money, and I don't mean to come across as justifying the car.  Just giving a different perspective as to how a potential buyer may view the car if they have gone down the restoration route themselves and knowing what's involved.

I don't put a ton of emphasis on matching number drivetrain.  It's nice, but not a killjoy for me.

Ok, I would split hairs here.
What I was saying above was once you have a replacement block, I am not sure if date correct plays a factor. BUT I do think a numbers matching drivetrain is a HUGE bonus.
Look everyone has there own idea of what is worth more to them, or perceived value.

#1 You want to make sure it is an original Z

The very next thing (for me ) would be to check if it still retains any of the original drivetrain components . I am not going to say the car isn't worth getting if the motor isn't original, but there is a significant hit to the value of the car, if it is not the motor it left the factory with.

That is why there are so many re-stamps, or " creative " descriptions when it comes to if the block is the original.
I think this is also reflected in the sold prices of cars with the original drive train vs. those with a replacement block.

If this is not a priority of the buyer, good for them, they may perceive more value in a rare color combo then original-to-the-car drive train.
Time will tell which direction the value of these cars go in, but if you are in it for the right reasons (and already own one), then the crazy price scale is just entertainment   :)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

X33RS

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 04:18:37 PM »
I agree, there is definitely something to be said about matching numbers and I don't mean to discard that in any way.    I have a few classics here with matching numbers, and a few more that aren't.  I'm okay with either one.   What I won't usually do is pay a hefty $25k+ price increase just for matching numbers on what are otherwise 2 identical cars.   I'll take the cheaper one with a correct engine replacement (not necessarily date code correct either) and enjoy the heck out of it. 

I'm not implying that's what is going on here but it's just one persons perspective on things.

Once you start paying big dollars for matching everything and correct this or that, you suddenly have a car you are afraid to take out and enjoy, especially a low mile one you don't want to rack miles up on.  I have a car like that, it's the most boring car in the stable (for me).

dannystarr

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 04:51:18 PM »
JUST MY opinion...Pole a hundred people and get 25 different opinions or more. I am a numbers guy thru and thru. I have passed on many cars years ago that were not numbers matching. Did there value go up.. probably yes... Should I have bought them anyway and made a profit years later.. Probably yes.. But there is just no replacement for a matching numbers drive train. That includes all POP's, Sticker's, build sheets, Factory headers, crossram what ever you have.. if it's not a numbers matching drive train, I am not interested. Because it can be documented WITHOUT one piece of paper for the next 100 years! Original engine gone, and maybe ya want a daily ride.. That would be fine, beat on it and have some fun. But not Z/28.. Do you KNOW how many times I was asked last Saturday and Sunday at 2 different car shows... IS IT A NUMBERS MATCHING DRIVE TRAIN? Maybe 40 times... For me, I need to be able to say YES!.. Original engine gone means a drop of at least 25 to 35 thousand dollars. I don't care if it's a Yenko, COPO what ever... Again, JMO... Danny

BSMIT59

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 06:01:15 PM »
Everyone has their own perspective when it comes to what they want. I joined this group to learn more about my cars and methods of restoration to have a true Camaro. As to #'s matching, I absolutely agree that if you're in it for profit , then that is the way to go. But for a slow southern good 'ol boy such as myself, when I hit the starter and let the clutch out nobody knows whether the numbers match or not and I enjoy the hell out of it. For me its the ultimate experience just to go cruising and enjoy the ride! To each his own but don't forget to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Barry     Old guy but still learning.....
Unrestored 67 barn find
67 SS 350 in process  ( in paint booth now)
Looking for 7N243673 to reunite V0320MO block and crank

firstgenaddict

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 07:09:22 PM »
I like that color combo and wish you could have got the white stripes without the white roof.
IMHO Gold with white interior and white stripes would have looked great and been different.

BTW that is 90 miles away if anyone wants eyes laid on it.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

paceme

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2015, 08:53:57 PM »
The color combination is unique , but for me you sunstitue rally green or lemans blue and that combination would really pop with the white. Just about the only thing that differentiates a Z28 from any other model 1969 Camaro or Chevrolet is the 302 engine. To me without it's soul its just another Camaro.

Documentation is important but unfotunately cars are built/resurrected based on paperwork, case in point the RG RS/Z sold at Barrett. To me a cars value is based on it's original components. The ultimate car is an unrestored survivor because it's built by the factory, next is one that has most of its original components and sheetmetal. Some like a concours restored car that are like art work, (which I own a few), but driving an original factory assembled car is the ultimate driving experience for me.

 
Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles.  The Supercar Registry-www.yenko.net-

X33RS

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2015, 09:48:33 PM »
I agree Paceme, 
   My all time favorite are unrestored survivor cars that still show well enough to be certified to some degree.  I've owned a handful of them.  I have one left that fits this description.  My only issue with them anymore is that I hate to put any miles on it.   More miles hurts value, and the more "patina" you add hurts value.  So unfortunately it does a lot (too much) of sitting.   

Still enjoy those cars though if nothing else but to look at and learn from.

dannystarr

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2015, 11:15:54 PM »
I get it, and believe me, I have fun! I am not in it for any kind of profit. Most people who purchase these cars are not looking to make a big return on their investment. They know that it's probably not going to happen unless ya get lucky, and make a purchase well below the current market value of the car. But after purchase, shipment/delivery of vehicle, taxes, maintenance and parts searching there just may not be any room for profit. Mine is a labor of love. I enjoy it... I enjoy learning about it... and there is really no plan to sell it unless someone makes a crazy offer. And if I did sell it right now, I MAY be able to recover close to total investment. Who knows... I REALLY have always wanted an 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS Lemans Blue/White stripes with an M22, deluxe interior U34, D55/U17, P/S, JL/8. Maybe I could raise HALF the money by selling my car... ha ha   Danny

BULLITT65

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2015, 11:20:38 PM »
Most guys just say they want a 69 Z, you made me laugh with your very specific wish of colors and options. Makes me think you have 1 car in mind
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

firstgenaddict

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 02:04:18 AM »
There is nothing like driving a good survivor... they close up tight and they drive tight, few restored vehicles have all the original sound deadening & sealers not to mention the foam strips inside the gauges and the ducting.

Little details, which to most would seem inconsequential, take time to do correctly and completely and are typically not covered in resto guides, however such items make a world of difference in how a restored car feels to drive.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69 Zee

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Re: Interesting Z on ebay
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2015, 02:58:04 AM »
Don't get me wrong guys.. As I stated at the very beginning "very sharp car".  The color combo w/white top is absolutely gorgeous and classy with some muscle.

And yes to each his own.  Unfortunately the numbers bug bit me.  It's hard to shake and I'm not in it for a profit either.  Once my Z is complete I plan to drive it.  Not daily, but it will be driven.  Heck I wanna enjoy it.. I'll let the next guy restore it and trailer queen it in the year 2065 after it's found in a barn   ;)

X33RS, I totally agree in reference to your earlier statement about the money one can spend to restore one.  Luckily for me, I have the skills to do my own restoration, except for the final paint and that's only because I don't have a booth  ;D  I also have a plane jane Camaro currently sitting on a jig as I'm in the process of welding in a new upper dash, cowl panel, firewall and both shoulders.  Several times I've been asked about selling it as is.  My response is "Do you have the skills to do this and if not Do you have deep pockets" because you'll be over your head in no time.

Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

 

anything