Author Topic: Starting problems  (Read 12513 times)

1968RSZ28

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2015, 07:47:26 PM »
Speaking of starter heat shields, has anyone tried the EZ Shields products?  I'm wondering how they compare to the blankets that are available.

http://www.ezshields.com/home.html

Paul

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2015, 10:31:23 PM »
Today I took it for two rides and got it to running temp and both times it failed about ten minutes after parking it. So now it looks like I have progressed from the car not starting at all to having a hot start problem. I did rebuild the engine last year and it may be running hotter than it used to and I do not have a temp gauge on it. It also has a single row core in the radiator.

I'm thinking my next move will be a heat shield and temperature gauge. Not that it's boiling over or showing any signs of overheating but it will be good to have the gauge.

Mike.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2015, 10:34:21 PM »
Try installing a temporary heat shield between the header and starter. The close proximity sometimes destroys the internals of both starters and solenoids. Cheap thermal insulation should do the trick.

I'll do that.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2015, 10:48:25 PM »
I'm thinking about a pushbutton hidden under the dashboard that'll let me drive the car until I fix this problem but I'm afraid that I'll get lazy and just drive it that way forever.

Mike.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

BSMIT59

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2015, 11:34:53 PM »
As a backup plan, I think it's a good idea. Just remember, the fruits of all the labor to restore is useless if you can't enjoy driving and that includes having a backup plan to get back home!
Barry     Old guy but still learning.....
Unrestored 67 barn find
67 SS 350 in process  ( in paint booth now)
Looking for N243673 to reunite V0320MO block and crank

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2015, 11:42:38 AM »
Here's a question for you all
Assuming that a car's starting circuit is all good and that the problem is heat soak then what would a volt meter read at the starter when the heat soak is occurring and the solenoid is not working? Would I see good voltage like around 10 volts and no-start and or would I see a large voltage drop to 8 volts or so and no-start? It seems to me that the resistance in the solenoid would cause less load and that the voltage would read high at the solenoid.

Mike.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

My68SS

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2015, 12:44:17 PM »
It seems to me that the resistance in the solenoid would cause less load and that the voltage would read high at the solenoid.

Mike.
Correct
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 01:05:01 PM by My68SS »
Rob
1968 12C SS
L34/M40
12 bolt posi 3.55

Stingr69

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2015, 01:36:42 PM »
 ;D  Relay and drive away.

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2015, 05:56:38 PM »
;D  Relay and drive away.

OK so then heat soak is not my problem and there must be still an intermittent connection or switch that I am overlooking.

Today the car is starting but I haven't driven it to warm it up because the weather is rainy.

Mike.


68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

Stingr69

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2015, 09:32:00 PM »


OK so then heat soak is not my problem and there must be still an intermittent connection or switch that I am overlooking.


***************************************************************************************************************

I know the relay mod is unpopular here but if you can get your engine to crank using a screwdriver to short across the starter terminals, adding the relay will get you rolling. Cheap, easy, and no cutting anything.

Today the car is starting but I haven't driven it to warm it up because the weather is rainy.

Mike.




KevinW

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2015, 11:20:36 AM »
I had a similar issue, it got a lot better when I replaced the engine harness. Not sure what the issue was, but I did find the fusible links just hanging on by a couple of strands, they would ohm out OK, but not pass the Amps.

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2015, 01:05:40 PM »
Engine Ground to frame and body?
Corrosion at firewall fuseblock connection? (sorry, think you said you cleaned this already-put some dielectric grease on contacts to pevent further problems)
Reverse lockout switch circuitry, connections, or adjustment of linkage or no linkage causing column to lose contact intermitently.

The battery is grounded directly to the engine block via water pump bolt and there is a wire from the negative battery post to the front right fender.

I do not have a ground strap from the engine to the body.

Either you are not reading correctly or do not understsand. It does not matter how many wires are running from the Neg. terminal to the block. The block needs to be grounded to the frame and body.
I had a 70 Camaro work car BITD. It had some "issues" starting intermittently. I got put on 2nd shift and coming home one night I notice a flash of light coming from under the console. Upon further inspection, I realize the engine was grounding (arcing) through the automatic shifter cable. Hooked up firewall ground straps and problem solved. Check out fundamental issues first, like proper grounding and connections. I will add, if where the ground cable is connected to water pump bolt, there is paint, rust, no washers, corrosion etc...this will cause a lot of problems. I had a diesel that had starter issues. It turned out that it was drawing too many amps. Enough to heat up the pos. connector stud on solenoid to a point, causing the nut to loosen after several starts.  >:(
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2015, 01:49:38 PM »
I understand and I read.

The body ground serves the body circuits meaning headlights, taillights etc. and not the starter solenoid. In the starter circuit the current flows from the batt + to the solenoid through the wiring harness and back to the batt - through the engine block. This is because the solenoid is attached to the block through the starter motor and the block is attached to the batt - through the negative battery cable.

The sparks that you saw in your console were caused by current flowing to your lights and other loads that depend on the body parts for a path back to batt -.

Mike.

68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2015, 01:54:46 PM »
I had a similar issue, it got a lot better when I replaced the engine harness. Not sure what the issue was, but I did find the fusible links just hanging on by a couple of strands, they would ohm out OK, but not pass the Amps.

I have not counted out a wiring problem but am not going to change a harness unless I find a problem. I did change the fusible link in on the batt positive cable and another on the voltage regulator for charging.

I don't want to change the engine harness and still have the problem because the fault is in the under-dash harness or somewhere else.

Mike.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350

mikefam

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Re: Starting problems
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2015, 11:23:37 AM »
I found something interesting that may help someone down the road. I read online that GM at some point made a shorter solenoid return spring to help alleviate the hot start problem. Knowing this I removed my starter and dug up three more starters around the garage and removed the solenoid springs from them all and I came up with three different length return springs!

The shortest spring was removed from and old solenoid that has the Delco logo on it and the longest was from an Echlin solenoid that I bought recently. I installed the short Delco spring and the car has been starting good for two days.

Granted I corrected more than one wiring problem and improved the circuit's power by cleaning up connections and replacing the neutral safety switch and ignition switch but I think that the spring was causing most of the trouble.

Mike.
68 Convertible w/327 275hp donor engine from a 67 Impala and TH350