Author Topic: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General  (Read 22190 times)

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2015, 08:26:14 PM »
Yea, I got other toys too, 30 coupe 331 Hemi :
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

BULLITT65

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2015, 08:28:24 PM »
very cool. Looks to be chopped and channeled? did you do the work?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2015, 08:31:36 PM »
Chopped 7 1/2, channeled 4 , on custom Z'ed frame. Yea, if only I could do that kind of stuff, Austin :'(. No, my forte is mechanics. Wish I did take up fabricating and bought those fab tools in my youth. I do a little fab. work, but will never do that well. I got car in Minnesota. PM with any other questions...this is a F-body site, ya know?
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

BULLITT65

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2015, 08:37:01 PM »
How are you ever going to be able to do it if you don't give it a try??

You don't know how to do it, until you do.

My uncle has a 30 that is channeled only, and then a 34 pick up that he just getting on the road now. Both rat rods. I was there making the mods to help him channel it, not to hard. I haven't chopped anything, but it seems like getting the glass to fit proper and seal would be the tricky part.

Plus it is easier with hot rods, it doesn't have to perfect like on show cars, or factory correct. Little mistakes or imperfections with hot rods can just add to the story.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69 Zee

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2015, 04:08:50 AM »

Not disputing anything posted, but I felt the point I wanted to make is: How can someone miss such noticeable details if they are going to the trouble of painting,
I totally agree Bentley.  The previous pics posted of the incorrect emblem placement and the bad striping are not do to a lack of funds and bodyshops having to cut corners.  There's zero difference in the amount of time involved to drill 2 (incorrect) holes for the emblems and to place the (incorrect) stripe lines as it does to do it correctly.  Those kind of mistakes are simply careless and uncalled for mistakes.  Specially when there's thousands of pics out there to view off the net.
Most of those cars that have those kind of mistakes are coming from some type of classic car flipper.  Who knows no more about correct emblem placement than my sister.  They roll them in and roll them out for bigger $$ and that's it.  Any shop putting out work like that is the one "cutting corners" or they'd repair their mistakes and eat the cost.   But on the flip side.  They're not selling those blunder cars to the 15% (just throwing a number out there..hehehe) of us that are on this site.  They're keying on the the other 85% who just wants a 1st gen Camaro.

Btw..I too love my 1st gen Camaro... but also would like some day to get another 70's E-body Plymouth Cuda
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

firstgenaddict

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2015, 11:55:12 PM »
Quote
   There's zero difference in the amount of time involved to drill 2 (incorrect) holes for the emblems and to place the (incorrect) stripe lines as it does to do it correctly. Those kind of mistakes are simply careless and uncalled for mistakes.  Specially when there's thousands of pics out there to view off the net.

PULLING THE TRIGGER ON THE DRILL AND PIERCING THE METAL TAKES THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME...

There actually is a good bit more time involved in correctly laying everything out and checking and rechecking.
Researching, checking, and double checking then laying it out, then checking again.
Checking with the light bezel installed is KEY to getting the proper alignment.

After painting the body color then install the emblem and use 1/4" masking to ensure the stripes are spaced correctly and aligned with the emblem edges.

VS

Dab some ink on the pins hold the emblem up make a couple of marks with the pins and drill some holes...

I'd say about 2-3 hours difference for the emblems and stripes...
FWIW if paying a shop it would be money well spent. 
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69 Zee

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2015, 05:02:22 AM »
"PULLING THE TRIGGER ON THE DRILL AND PIERCING THE METAL TAKES THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME..." That I agree with James.
 
But 2-3 hours difference in time for correctness .... that I'm not so sure of.  Maybe if you've never ever done it before and totally had no clue... JMO !  My point was that who ever laid the hockey stripe and placed the emblems had a good general idea of what it looked like and where they are placed.  They had a good idea to the stripes overall length, width and shape.  So...JMO, the time they took to lay that stripe out is not that much of a difference to doing it correct.  15 minutes worth of research in the AIM (pg. 248 D90 A1) will even spell it out for one.

That is not a lack of funds or time.. a lack of paying attention to detail.      

The pic below is another good example of an emblem goof.  Car is currently on a well know web site.  Ad claims over 70K invested, asking 60K OBO.  I know those are the seller's words  ;D  if your spending that kinda coin in a resto your not gonna tell me that the owner is gonna cut 2-3 hours off to save a buck ? .. again JMO
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 05:29:20 AM by 69 Zee »
Darrell
'69 Camaro Z/28: 03B NOR X77 Dusk Blue, white top, all orig, Under construction
'69 Firebird all original 350 all power w/ac
'70 Plymouth Superbird: One owner, Limelight green, 45K miles, all original U code

69Z28-RS

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2015, 12:56:52 PM »
Those photos make one wonder WHO is buying these Z28's...  didn't they EVER see a correct Z28 before they bought those? or *restored* those??
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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X33RS

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Re: Why I am worried about Body Work Guys in General
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2015, 08:34:05 PM »
I should explain why I feel it's a result of going to cheap body shops.  Yeah they've seen the cars, they have a general idea how things should be, but they don't take the time to research nor do they care enough to spend extra time on the car doing it correctly.  Honestly alot of owners on the cheap just don't care either as long as it's close.  

To be frank about it, it really starts with the owner of the car unwilling to spend the money to go to a top notch shop and PAY for time involved in these cars to do one correctly.  Stripes aren't quite right, finishes are wrong, emblems are wrong etc. etc....  Most people go where ever they get the best quote to do the work and/or it's most convenient.   It doesn't mean the car will get done correctly and likely things will be missed.   That was the gist of the whole "lack of funds" comment.  You get one quote for $5,000 and another for $25,000 where do you think 90% of the population will go?  I'd bet my money that a nagging wife, kids in college, will make the obvious choice for most people  ;D
   I can't tell you how many supposed 69 Z28's I've seen with rear spoilers that have the stripes extend below the spoiler onto the decklid.  Very common rookie mistake that alot of body shops do.  Most owners have no clue either because the car never started life as a Z28 to begin with.  Must be 40,000 of those cars running around now, lol.  Saw one at a cruise this past weekend that had an AC box on the firewall, a 10 bolt, and an automatic, LOL.

Paint jobs aren't cheap anymore.  The cost of materials is ridiculous compared to just 10 years ago.  Money doesn't go as far as it used to.  People just don't want to pay $10,000-$20,000 just to shoot a car these days (those prices don't include labor to get the car ready to shoot in most shops).
  I usually spend about $1500 minimum just on primers, paint, reducers, hardeners, clear, etc....that can reach $3,000 pretty quick depending on colors and brands.  So yeah people are going to go where it's most reasonable and yet still try to get quality for their money, who can blame them.  Unfortunately you sometimes wind up with examples shown.  Like I said earlier, I have a customer right now that's too cheap to buy a $40 stencil kit on a Mach 1 I'm doing.  He's lucky that I happen to own an original paint SCJ Mach 1 I can take measurements from.  And that's the key.  When you have to lay stuff out by hand, you can't always use another cars that's been painted.  What if that's not exactly right??  You need an original paint car in my opinion if you want to take notes and are too cheap to buy inexpensive stencils. How many shops are going to take the time to do that?  If it wasn't figured into the original quote, and the owner gripes about more money, my guess is, not many shops  ;)

You take the car to Tieman and it will come back correct, but the average person won't spend 6 figures on a restoration either.  That's really what I was getting at earlier.  I see this all the time in the business.