Author Topic: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay  (Read 18630 times)

6667ss138

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More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« on: January 04, 2015, 08:29:01 AM »
A search didn't come up with anything on this VIN so I thought I would post it. Hopefully people are searching these VIN's before buying and getting ripped off.

VIN 124379N673525

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28-TRUE-Z28-DZ-302-4-SPEED-FRESH-RESTORATION-12-BOLT-FRONT-DISCS-NICE-/281539274103?forcerrptr=true&hash=item418d0c6577&item=281539274103&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Fake Trim Tag
NOR108403 BDY
TR 720   72 B PNT
08C       X33
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:26:14 PM by KurtS »

jack92584

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 04:08:59 PM »
Hmmm....looks like they forgot a little something on that tag. Nice catch
69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented

69Z28-RS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 08:01:15 PM »
I've no idea if the tag is fake or not, but if you are going to fake one..  why not a beautiful orange/black Z28.. :)
(no wonder everyone loves those colors...   I'm guessing that Bullitt is going to bid on this one).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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ds1

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 08:03:25 PM »
Totally wrong rear and mounting hardware.   Wrong manifolds.   57 miles on the odometer?    And the list goes on.

x77-69z28

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 05:20:46 AM »
Where is the clock?
69 Z/28 X77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
15 z/28 Arctic white, A/C 505 HP #251

KevinW

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 05:02:37 PM »
What is up with that rear spring mount???  The spring mounts are deep multis as well as the multi shock plate, they are all correct, but it looks like they left old spring pads or spacers in there.  why would they do that? If they mounted them correctly, it would raised the rear up to a more proper level.  And of course the upside down cowl seal, tsk.

69Z28-RS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 05:12:04 PM »
...  And of course the upside down cowl seal, tsk.

That is one of my big 'irks' also, Kevin..   Seems half the cars I see at car shows (even the nationals) has their cowl seal upside down (and inside out).   TIP:   When you purchase a new/repro cowl seal, it seems it is turned inside out (and most just install it that way)..    If you will first unroll it (turn it opposite), the little sealing lip will lip around the metal plate on top of the air cleaner, and the rubber will turn 'OUT' as it's supposed to...  :)   I can't help myself from attempting to correct the owners when I see this..  some appreciate it, and some don't..  :)  and the latter ones I let go on in their ignorance...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

hgger69

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 07:53:13 PM »
...  And of course the upside down cowl seal, tsk.

That is one of my big 'irks' also, Kevin..   Seems half the cars I see at car shows (even the nationals) has their cowl seal upside down (and inside out).   TIP:   When you purchase a new/repro cowl seal, it seems it is turned inside out (and most just install it that way)..    If you will first unroll it (turn it opposite), the little sealing lip will lip around the metal plate on top of the air cleaner, and the rubber will turn 'OUT' as it's supposed to...  :)   I can't help myself from attempting to correct the owners when I see this..  some appreciate it, and some don't..  :)  and the latter ones I let go on in their ignorance...
I had the same issuses when i mounted my seal but i hope this is the right way?
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

1968RSZ28

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 08:28:39 PM »
Here's the eBay photo of the cowl tag...



Paul
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:28:24 PM by KurtS »

BULLITT65

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2015, 12:50:26 AM »
It's possible...the rest of the tag looked similar to mine.  I emailed the dealer to ask them to post pics of the engine stamp, trans, and rear end. So I am hoping to see those and compare them to mine.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

little_hoss

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2015, 01:44:10 AM »
I wasn't saying that the tag wasn't fake, I was just wondering if I missed anything else on it. I'm hoping to buy myself a 1969 Z/28 someday and am trying to learn as much as I can so I don't end up on the wrong side of the deal someday.  ;D BTW what was the ballpark date on spoilers becoming mandatory on Z/28's? I read on the CRG site that they did became mandatory late in production but couldn't find the ballpark date.
Eric
1967 Base
1969 Base 307 3spd matching #'s X44
1968 C-10 Short Fleetside Custom

ko-lek-tor

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 02:07:15 AM »
Definately do not want to hijack topic, but a COPO is for sale also on eBay that does not have spoilers. Weren't all COPOs (L72) spoiler mandatory trim cars too? I thought? I know the Z in question has the spoilers and trim tag is wrong, so I am not confused on topic and perhaps should have a new post, just was on my mind when reading about D80.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Base-Copo-Real-1969-COPO-Camaro-Documented-/321634873216?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4ae2eeaf80&item=321634873216&pt=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_54wt_1312
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

little_hoss

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2015, 02:33:48 AM »
Well from what I read on the CRG site on the D80 option, the only cars that were required to have spoilers were the pace car replicas and later build date Z/28's. Still would like to know when the spoilers became a mandatory option on Z/28's though.
Eric
1967 Base
1969 Base 307 3spd matching #'s X44
1968 C-10 Short Fleetside Custom

jack92584

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2015, 03:06:20 AM »
Well from what I read on the CRG site on the D80 option, the only cars that were required to have spoilers were the pace car replicas and later build date Z/28's. Still would like to know when the spoilers became a mandatory option on Z/28's though.


April
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:32:06 PM by KurtS »
69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented

69Z28-RS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2015, 04:08:03 AM »
...  And of course the upside down cowl seal, tsk.

That is one of my big 'irks' also, Kevin..   Seems half the cars I see at car shows (even the nationals) has their cowl seal upside down (and inside out).   TIP:   When you purchase a new/repro cowl seal, it seems it is turned inside out (and most just install it that way)..    If you will first unroll it (turn it opposite), the little sealing lip will lip around the metal plate on top of the air cleaner, and the rubber will turn 'OUT' as it's supposed to...  :)   I can't help myself from attempting to correct the owners when I see this..  some appreciate it, and some don't..  :)  and the latter ones I let go on in their ignorance...
I had the same issuses when i mounted my seal but i hope this is the right way?


Yours appears to be installed correctly the way it is now, Hugger..    :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

hgger69

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2015, 08:19:34 AM »
Thanx Gary,
Probably one of few things that's correct in my engine compartment!  ;D
Regards,
Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1 tribute, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com

Mark

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2015, 11:46:58 AM »
Spoilers became a mandatory option on the Z28's in April, the D80 code was added to the cowl tag in May.  BUT the D80 cowl tag code is not present on every Z28 made after they became part of the package.  Don't know why, possibly if the order sheet indicated the spoiler option was selected the tag got the D80 code on the tag, even though all Z28s got spoilers after April anyway.  The D80 code was added to the cowl tag just after the Firebirds started being assembled at Norwood and probably has more to do with the Trans AMs than the Camaros, as they used the same code on their tag.  Possibly the "computers" that coded the options couldn't differentiate between a TA D80 option and a Camaro D80 option.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

camaro jock

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2015, 12:57:19 PM »
Could it be if they had the rear antennae there would be no D80 as the spoiler did not work with the spoiler, thanks Darrell

1968RSZ28

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 08:03:51 PM »
Kurt, what is your opinion in regards to this cowl tag?



Paul

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Re: Possible 69 Z/28 on Ebay
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2015, 11:30:55 PM »
Here is the VIN tag for that car.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 04:07:11 AM by bcmiller »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

BULLITT65

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2015, 01:51:22 AM »
well bad news. The motor is not original to the car, Looks to be an april date,(looks to be an original DZ?) He said there is a partial VIN by the oil filter but he was having a hard time trying to read it. The trans may be from the same car as the motor and is dated pretty close (P9D29B) but the vin was really hard to make out, may have had another stamp done on top of the original vin stamp. I asked for a pic on the rear end and he said it looks to have new axle tubes installed, in fact he said there was still a part # on the sticker, but they were completely smooth. So this kinda leads us all the way back to the firewall tag as being the only possible legit Z/28 item on the car still.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

rich69rs

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2015, 03:13:13 AM »
Just a thought - primarily for the moderator(s) of this forum.

I think we really need to be very careful with how we state subjects, etc. on the forum.  The subject of this thread is "More 69 Z/28 Ebay Fraud".  I believe the real intent of the subject is "More Potential 69 Z/28 fraud on EBay".  In my mind, the title of this thread could be interpreted to imply that eBay is directly involved with fraud on their site, i.e. "EBay fraud" - which I don't believe was the intent.

Just my two cents.

Richard
Richard Thomas
1969 RS

maroman

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2015, 03:37:33 AM »
That's the first intelligent comment I've read yet. The intent of this forum should be to pass on good information not speculation.
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

KurtS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2015, 08:24:58 AM »
Tag is an obvious repro.
That's not speculation. But I'm torn on how much info in the thread should be on public display.

Rich,
I see your point. But none of the post malign ebay and that's not how I read it the first time.
Kurt S
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lakeholme

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2015, 09:50:20 AM »
Just a thought - primarily for the moderator(s) of this forum.

I think we really need to be very careful with how we state subjects, etc. on the forum.  The subject of this thread is "More 69 Z/28 Ebay Fraud".  I believe the real intent of the subject is "More Potential 69 Z/28 fraud on EBay".  In my mind, the title of this thread could be interpreted to imply that eBay is directly involved with fraud on their site, i.e. "EBay fraud" - which I don't believe was the intent.

Just my two cents.

Richard
That's the first intelligent comment I've read yet. The intent of this forum should be to pass on good information not speculation.
X3
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68 Ragtop

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2015, 06:38:35 PM »
Kurt, I say pull it, delete the whole thing. There is plenty more out there, and there always will be. It's not like we are having a discussion about a members car who needs help cause he wants to buy it. You got the info in the DB it's done. There is going to be 100's. That missing tag info is a big piece of information.. Just my opinion... Danny

The problem with removing the thread is that "The Data Base" is privately held and few have access. Nothing will show up if a potential buyer searches a VIN. That's why regular members post these Trim Tags and VIN's, isn't it? To help out fellow enthusiast's?

Besides, this thread is no worse than most reproduction tag flags. Edit it you must, but leave the basic info.

77thor

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2015, 07:35:38 PM »

The problem with removing the thread is that "The Data Base" is privately held and few have access. Nothing will show up if a potential buyer searches a VIN. That's why regular members post these Trim Tags and VIN's, isn't it? To help out fellow enthusiast's?

Besides, this thread is no worse than most reproduction tag flags. Edit it you must, but leave the basic info.

I agree totally.

I feel that threads like this provide good info for potential buyers.
1969 Camaro SS, 350(NOM), M21, 12 Bolt Posi, 01B LOS Build
1977 Camaro, 350(LM1), M20, 10 Bolt Posi, Purchased New, (SOLD)

KurtS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 Ebay fraud
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2015, 09:43:52 PM »
The same thread is running on TC, so the VIN is out there with this info. But I'll pare this thread.

I'd like to rachet down the ebay policing a notch. Just notifying (with tact and discretion) the seller that the tag has issues is sufficient.
I listed something on ebay the other day and someone contacted me that it was incorrect. I researched and many were listed incorrectly, hence my error. Deleted and relisted correctly. My point is notification is all that needs to happen. It's up to the seller to do more research.

I should add that cars like this aren't always added to the db. Very little data of research value and every entry takes more time than you'd think (noting source, comments, pics, etc).

I do save the pics. I will mention the file format I use since it may help others when looking for a pic.
We use the VIN in the title, e.g. tag_9N673525_NOR108403_repro.jpg  and vin_9N673525.jpg.
If you search for the VIN on your computer, then you can find the pic. ;)

That's why regular members post these Trim Tags and VIN's, isn't it? To help out fellow enthusiast's?
And that's why I highly suggest adding the VIN to any thread about a car. Often VIN pics or tag pics are added, but the VIN itself needs to be there too.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:44:49 PM by KurtS »
Kurt S
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BULLITT65

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2015, 10:53:38 PM »
So since there is a square hole around the vin plate, it looks like the dash may have been repaired/replaced at one point. Seems like this car raises a lot of questions.
I asked the dealer if they had any previous pics of the car prior to restoration, and said they seller purchased it this way.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

6667ss138

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 03:47:56 AM »
When I was looking through the first gen's for sale on ebay the other day, the color combo of this car caught my eye. I wasn't looking for something that could be a start to a thread, but the more I looked through the ad, the more things I saw that were wrong. I have learned many of the things that I now know about Camaro's from here and over at TC. I wondered how many others were being lured in by that mesmerizing color combo.  (Gary knows what I am talking about :) 
 
I decided the car was a fraud and I needed to expose it, as other fraudulent cars have been exposed on this site countless times before. This is the only reason I started the thread, both here and on TC. One TC member actually posted a thanks for the thread because he was giving serious consideration to the purchase of this very 69.
 
Kurt, thank you for confirming my statement concerning the fraudulent trim tag. I do not want to be wrong and misrepresent anything. The work and knowledge that you and the other CRG experts have done, and continue to do, is immeasurable!
 
 
 
I believe most people understand that my use of "ebay fraud" has to do with the seller and not the site. I am not in favor of publicizing certain information that could help the scammers. The exposure of another fake first gen Z/28 for sale was my only reason for starting this thread.

BULLITT65

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 04:04:41 AM »
I thought it was a good heads up post on both sites. The dealer only really acknowledged that the motor was not numbers matching, and didn't seem aware of trans or rear until I asked for pics. I am unaware if he is in on it, he was nice enough to send me some pics though. Its to bad he couldn't see enough of the partial vin to relay it to me. Whenever a car like this is presented and found out, it just makes me wonder how many more of these cars are out there. Further more it seems like a good amount of them (acknowledged/unacknowledged clones) have a 69 DZ motor in them from another Z. I wonder how many guys with original Z bodied cars, original motor/trans are floating around in another Z real or not?

Just food for thought.

1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2015, 04:12:54 AM »
I would guess that for ever original Z28 engine that was removed from a car and 'transplanted' to another, at least NINE original motors were blown up by over revving.  I have a '70 LT1 engine that was built from a 4-bolt truck block (NOT restamped) but with the main internals (crank and rods), heads, intake, etc from a real LT1.  I call this a '70 LT1 engine even though it is not stamped as such.

Another way of saying the above is that most of the incorrect Z28's with 'original represented or appearing' engines are restamped.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

1 bad rat

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 01:37:07 PM »
Reading this thread I noticed this cars vin is very close to mine . Mine is an x22 car, vin124379n673511 bdy number nor107732. Burnished brown car.

VINCE Z28

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Re: More 69 Z/28 misrepresentation on ebay
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 02:39:08 PM »
Gentleman what it all comes down to is one word " GREED " the age old curse of the human race.  Caveat Emptor. The Internet Justice League will keep them in check....
" He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught"  It's not you...  It's just the way my brain is wired.