Author Topic: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship  (Read 13336 times)

eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2015, 01:29:11 PM »
How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

69Z28-RS

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2015, 01:47:42 PM »
How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

I guess my question should have been 'What period correct calipers/brakes are better'??   Chevy's four wheel disk brakes (SP version with phenolic insulators) were the best for the '68-69 time frame and were generally considered the biggest reason that TA Camaros were winners those years.  Are you using the *heavy* rotors, but looking for a lighter caliper? or ??
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2015, 01:54:08 PM »
Well, the fact is they brake but we fight against younger / lighter cars like BMW CSL, 635 gr.A, Capri gr.2 and the braking distance we achieve is ridiculous compared to them. Even the heavier Hemi Cuda seems to brake better than our Camaro.
Better period correct calipers would be Girling and maybe the hurst-airheart but I am not sure. And I would have to prove they have been used in period on a Camaro if I want them homologated by the FIA.

69Z28-RS

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2015, 02:38:45 PM »
How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

OK..  My prejudice comes from the fact that I've always considered 'mass' to be GOOD in braking, but that comes predominantly from lighter weight rotors warping.  I've never had one of the 60's corvette rotors to warp!  but you are talking 'calipers'...

I just went and weighed one of prepped front Corvette calipers (same as JL8 I think) and got a bit over 10 lbs.  So to save 36 lbs with lighter weight calipers, your 'lightweight' calipers would have to be on the order of 1-2 lbs each.   Is that what the girling calipers weigh?   Do they provide similar piston area of force on equivalent area pads as do the 4 piston calipers you are using now?  Is it allowed to grind off the corners and excess metal areas to reduce the weight?  or to machine for larger pistons (and thinner sleeves?) which would also reduce weight of the calipers.

PS. A rather extreme solution would be to have the Corvette caliper halves cast in aluminum, then some machining (and cast blast paint?) :)..  and SS sleeves and aluminum pistons and you'd greatly reduce the weight, but I think they would still weigh more than 2 lbs??   
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2015, 02:42:43 PM »
PS. A rather extreme solution would be to have the Corvette caliper halves cast in aluminum, then some machining (and cast blast paint?) :)..  and SS sleeves and aluminum pistons and you'd greatly reduce the weight, but I think they would still weigh more than 2 lbs??   

I have to say I would love to go for this solution. Do you know if anybody here on the board has ever heard of someone having done an aluminium cast of the Delco Moraine calipers ?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 03:04:42 PM by eb911 »

Steve Holmes

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2015, 09:27:40 PM »
Awesome images Eric!

crazyamc

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2015, 09:44:25 PM »
There have been Ford racers who have had their 4 piston caliper cast in aluminum...... doesn't work, it's not stiff enough in aluminum..   I'd have to guess there's something askew with your brakes, (or pads, or master cylinder..)   I don't think you'll ever stop with the smaller/later cars, but the Hemi Cuda reference tells me yours aren't right...    Ken

eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2015, 07:09:23 AM »
There have been Ford racers who have had their 4 piston caliper cast in aluminum...... doesn't work, it's not stiff enough in aluminum..   I'd have to guess there's something askew with your brakes, (or pads, or master cylinder..)   I don't think you'll ever stop with the smaller/later cars, but the Hemi Cuda reference tells me yours aren't right...    Ken
You are probably right. We will try to sort that out next week-end at Dijon.

Jon Mello

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2015, 02:30:19 PM »
Eric, there are some general braking solutions and advice in this article... http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/bbfh/bbfh13.html

You could try Porterfield brake pads with a more aggressive compound, make sure you have the front caliper reinforcement brackets, and install an adjustable proportioning valve if you don't already have one.
Jon Mello
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eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2015, 03:00:56 PM »

Thanks Jon. We already have a proportioning valve and found very efficient pads. I really think the problem is the caliper but on the other hand we can't have the braking power of later german cars !

eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2015, 04:12:49 PM »
An onboard video in the Camaro during free practice at Spa.
https://youtu.be/wqpLZALIljk




1968RSZ28

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »
An onboard video in the Camaro during free practice at Spa.
https://youtu.be/wqpLZALIljk

Bad as hell!!!  ;D

Paul

mdz

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2015, 12:40:47 AM »
Love that small block Chevy sounds, thanks and good luck.

Jon Mello

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2015, 03:23:10 AM »
Awesome video.  The car sounds great and Spa is such a neat track.  Thanks for sharing that, Eric.
Jon Mello
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eb911

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Re: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2015, 09:39:49 AM »
The third round of the Heritage Touring Cup championship is now behind us. It was a great week-end at Dijon on the ex.F1 track.
We finished 7th in a hot race battling with a slippery and very hot track (30-35 deg C all week-end).
The tires purely melted, and the understeer and "lively" rear axle made of this race the toughest so far.
But 7th is still in our initial goal and we were the oldest car of the grid and the first one with threaded tires.

Few pictures here under