Author Topic: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship (Read 31524 times)

eb911 · « **on:** December 08, 2014, 03:42:05 PM »

You have followed our first races in vintage racing with our 1967 Camaro in 2014.
I am very happy to announce that we will be part of the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship which is now an FIA sanctioned International event. See details here : http://peterauto.peter.fr/en/plateaux/detail/id/37/nom/HERITAGE%20Touring%20cup

Two new rounds will take place in Italy with Vallelunga in March and the iconic and very fast Monza in July.

I will keep you updated on our results.

Just one shot of the lat 2014 round :

Steve Holmes · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2014, 06:12:04 PM »

That is awesome Eric! I'm jealous. Monza will be epic in the Camaro

Jon Mello · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2014, 02:33:56 PM »

Thanks for the update, Eric. That sounds terrific. You have to post some pics of the car at Monza!

369 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2014, 09:02:31 AM »

Looks like a second gen split bumper car in the background too?.?....(Green with lights on) now I know who I want to finish second!

eb911 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2015, 05:51:09 PM »

Yes it is a 2nd gen split bumper Camaro, but as a group 1 car, it is quite slow.

eb911 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2015, 05:52:42 PM »

Winter work in progress. Getting ready for the 2015 season.

Jon Mello · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:38:41 AM »

I hope you have fun and your results continue to improve!

eb911 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2015, 09:04:03 AM »

The first race of the season is over. Vallelunga (Italy, near Roma) was a little difficult for us. Not the start of the season we expected.
We have experienced clutch problem early in the practice sessions and could not fix it. It was impossible to put the pedal down to the metal without clutch slipping.
So we used only half of the acceleration and got on the rpm gently. Very frustrating. But we decided to do the race nevertheless.
We qualified 18th out of 19 (No comment !) and started what was more cruising than hard racing.
It should be pointed out that Vallelunga is a very nice track but despite a first part that is quite fast, most of the circuit is quite slow with lots of corners we had to take in 1st, so in any cases in was the most difficult one of the season for our Camaro.
In the end due to lots of DNF, we finished 7th, quite unexpected ! We got back home with 15 points in the pocket and can't wait to express ourselves at Spa for the next round, where it will go muuucchhh faster !

Few pictures :

eb911 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2015, 09:08:48 AM »

Few more and our new towing vehicle :

Steve Holmes · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2015, 07:24:53 PM »

Thats awesome Eric! The two vehicle is pretty cool too.

Do you only get one race per event?

Trans Åm · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2015, 11:47:55 PM »

Can you give some specs on your wheels and tires? I have been confused about what kinds of old school wheels are actually strong enough to race on, and you are running the exact wheels I love the most...now I just need to know who makes them!
Thank you so much.

Steve Holmes · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2015, 12:59:16 AM »

Those are PS Engineering wheels, they were on the car when Eric bought it.

Trans Åm · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2015, 02:04:06 AM »

Ahh I see, those are no ordinary Torque Thrusts! Those things were born to run!
Thank you very much for the reply.

Jon Mello · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2015, 03:11:38 AM »

Eric, thanks for the report from your first race of the season at Vallelunga .

Sounds like a lot of frustration ended up with a good end result. Hopefully you'll get your clutch fixed before the next outing.

MO · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2015, 03:51:55 AM »

Congrats for hanging in there and getting a solid finish.

oldtransamdriver · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2015, 04:15:28 AM »

What engine size are you allowed in this series?

Robert

eb911 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2015, 06:04:54 AM »

Quote from: Trans Åm on April 02, 2015, 11:47:55 PM

Can you give some specs on your wheels and tires? I have been confused about what kinds of old school wheels are actually strong enough to race on, and you are running the exact wheels I love the most...now I just need to know who makes them!
Thank you so much.

As Steve stated, PS Engineering and I use Avon CR6ZZ tyres, the best threaded compound available for road racing we have found.

eb911 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2015, 06:06:34 AM »

Quote from: Steve Holmes on April 02, 2015, 07:24:53 PM

Thats awesome Eric! The two vehicle is pretty cool too.

Do you only get one race per event?

Yes unfortunately 1 race per event (1 hour), except for Spa (next round 22-24th May), where we have 2 races, 1 day, 1 night, to reproduce the glory days of the 24 hours of Spa.

eb911 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2015, 06:08:42 AM »

Quote from: oldtransamdriver on April 03, 2015, 04:15:28 AM

What engine size are you allowed in this series?

Robert

As my car is homologated as a Trans-Am car, the limit is 5 liter.

kiwiboss · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2015, 08:19:33 AM »

Well done Eric, we also use the Avon CR6ZZ as our optional wet weather tyre down here in New Zealand and have found them very good, a medium wet to dry track they are perfect, otherwise for dry racing we use either the Goodyear BS or the cheaper Hoosier HOTD bias cross ply equivalent, 25.5X8.5 front and 26.5X9.5 rear.

PS: im a Mustang racer but still luv the gen 1(and 2) Camaros.

Dale M(NZL)

eb911 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2015, 02:00:32 PM »

Thanks Dale.

I had made some research prior our first season on the best threaded tyres to fit to our Camaro. A vast majority of guys here in Europe use Avon Cr6ZZ even on dry surface. I have to admit I don't know about the Goodyear and have heard that the Hosier are not that good. Do you have the reference of the Goodyear?

eb911 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2015, 12:41:24 PM »

We are getting ready for the next round in Spa. A big event that even includes a grid with historic Group C cars.
We will have the pleasure to race twice, 1 day race and 1 night race (1 hour each) to recreate the unique atmosphere of the famous Spa 24 hours races back in the 70's-80's when touring car racing was so popular.

A new clutch is installed, following our frustrating first round at Vallelunga.

We will also fit additional high beam headlights for the night race in the style of the Camaros which raced in period in the 24 hour race. See few of them here under :
I will keep you posted with hopefully great images and footage of the race (22-24th May)

Jon Mello · « **Reply #22 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:57:42 AM »

Spa is a really neat circuit with some great history. I think that's awesome that they let you do a day race and a night race as well. Very unique, but a great tribute to the old 24-hour race they used to run. I hope you have no major issues with the car and I look forward to seeing some photos from the race. Best of luck!

eb911 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2015, 03:18:29 PM »

Spa Classic is now behind us. It has been an epic week-end with two races of 1 hour each (1 at 3 pm and one at night ). With 40 entrants and a stronger field than ever, we are very happy of our results : 12th in the first race and 9th in the second race despite little ignition issues that led us finish the race on 7 cylinders !
The Camaro pulls hard as usual but this time I think we have found the right chassis setup. The handling is much better now and is quite surprising by many who see the US cars as straight kings.
Brakes are consistent but the braking distance is one of the worst of the grid. I guess each car has his drawbacks !
Here is a link to a cool onboard video and article by the guys at Goodwood Road and Racing Club :
https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/historic/video-camaro-devours-spa-classic#o0hpLrHBpVdiRyxu.97

Few pictures of the races. Spa is just stunning !

eb911 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2015, 03:21:11 PM »

Few more :

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #25 on:** May 27, 2015, 12:32:51 AM »

Great photos! I Love them... and Congratulations on your finishes!

What are you running for brakes? and do you have a plan for improvement?

Jon Mello · « **Reply #26 on:** May 27, 2015, 04:03:52 AM »

Thanks for the great pictures, Eric. I'm glad to hear you are getting the handling sorted out. Your finishes seem to be very good.

Is that a red Camaro with white stripes that I see in the distance in one of your photos? Looks like possibly another '67?

eb911 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 27, 2015, 07:19:40 AM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on May 27, 2015, 12:32:51 AM

Great photos! I Love them... and Congratulations on your finishes!

What are you running for brakes? and do you have a plan for improvement?

We have the JL8 brakes with Delco Moraine calipers. They don't overheat but they are heavy and the braking distance is average to say the least. We have no plans for improvement for now, as we have to prove that any system has been used in period to use them on the car and be FIA legal. It seems the Girling alloy Calipers have been homologated at some point but we have no trace of them being used.

eb911 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 27, 2015, 07:42:26 AM »

Quote from: Jon Mello on May 27, 2015, 04:03:52 AM

Is that a red Camaro with white stripes that I see in the distance in one of your photos? Looks like possibly another '67?

Yes it is a 1967 Camaro Z28, the Heinrich Chevy-land one which now belongs to a Belgium owner.
We also had several US cars in the grid : a 1978 Camaro Z28 that competed 8 times in the 24 hours in period, a 1970 Hemi Cuda, a 1968 Mustang 302 TA recreation, and two 1965 Mustang 289.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2015, 12:27:54 PM »

Quote from: eb911 on May 27, 2015, 07:19:40 AM

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on May 27, 2015, 12:32:51 AM
Great photos! I Love them... and Congratulations on your finishes!

What are you running for brakes? and do you have a plan for improvement?
We have the JL8 brakes with Delco Moraine calipers. They don't overheat but they are heavy and the braking distance is average to say the least. We have no plans for improvement for now, as we have to prove that any system has been used in period to use them on the car and be FIA legal. It seems the Girling alloy Calipers have been homologated at some point but we have no trace of them being used.

Yes, they are heavy... but I'd think their mass would be beneficial in *long* races with lots of braking.. is that not true any longer? What is your competition running?

eb911 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 27, 2015, 01:29:11 PM »

How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #31 on:** May 27, 2015, 01:47:42 PM »

Quote from: eb911 on May 27, 2015, 01:29:11 PM

How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

I guess my question should have been 'What period correct calipers/brakes are better'?? Chevy's four wheel disk brakes (SP version with phenolic insulators) were the best for the '68-69 time frame and were generally considered the biggest reason that TA Camaros were winners those years. Are you using the *heavy* rotors, but looking for a lighter caliper? or ??

eb911 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 27, 2015, 01:54:08 PM »

Well, the fact is they brake but we fight against younger / lighter cars like BMW CSL, 635 gr.A, Capri gr.2 and the braking distance we achieve is ridiculous compared to them. Even the heavier Hemi Cuda seems to brake better than our Camaro.
Better period correct calipers would be Girling and maybe the hurst-airheart but I am not sure. And I would have to prove they have been used in period on a Camaro if I want them homologated by the FIA.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #33 on:** May 27, 2015, 02:38:45 PM »

Quote from: eb911 on May 27, 2015, 01:29:11 PM

How can heavy calipers be beneficial ? I have heard that alloy calipers would save around 36 lbs !! But again I have to prove that alloy calipers have been used in period if I want them FIA homologated. Not easy !

Few picture of the post race parc ferme packed with touring cars.

OK.. My prejudice comes from the fact that I've always considered 'mass' to be GOOD in braking, but that comes predominantly from lighter weight rotors warping. I've never had one of the 60's corvette rotors to warp! but you are talking 'calipers'...

I just went and weighed one of prepped front Corvette calipers (same as JL8 I think) and got a bit over 10 lbs. So to save 36 lbs with lighter weight calipers, your 'lightweight' calipers would have to be on the order of 1-2 lbs each. Is that what the girling calipers weigh? Do they provide similar piston area of force on equivalent area pads as do the 4 piston calipers you are using now? Is it allowed to grind off the corners and excess metal areas to reduce the weight? or to machine for larger pistons (and thinner sleeves?) which would also reduce weight of the calipers.

PS. A rather extreme solution would be to have the Corvette caliper halves cast in aluminum, then some machining (and cast blast paint?)

.. and SS sleeves and aluminum pistons and you'd greatly reduce the weight, but I think they would still weigh more than 2 lbs??

eb911 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 27, 2015, 02:42:43 PM »

Quote from: eb911 on May 27, 2015, 01:29:11 PM

PS. A rather extreme solution would be to have the Corvette caliper halves cast in aluminum, then some machining (and cast blast paint?) .. and SS sleeves and aluminum pistons and you'd greatly reduce the weight, but I think they would still weigh more than 2 lbs??

I have to say I would love to go for this solution. Do you know if anybody here on the board has ever heard of someone having done an aluminium cast of the Delco Moraine calipers ?

Steve Holmes · « **Reply #35 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:27:40 PM »

Awesome images Eric!

crazyamc · « **Reply #36 on:** May 28, 2015, 09:44:25 PM »

There have been Ford racers who have had their 4 piston caliper cast in aluminum...... doesn't work, it's not stiff enough in aluminum.. I'd have to guess there's something askew with your brakes, (or pads, or master cylinder..) I don't think you'll ever stop with the smaller/later cars, but the Hemi Cuda reference tells me yours aren't right... Ken

eb911 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 29, 2015, 07:09:23 AM »

Quote from: crazyamc on May 28, 2015, 09:44:25 PM

There have been Ford racers who have had their 4 piston caliper cast in aluminum...... doesn't work, it's not stiff enough in aluminum.. I'd have to guess there's something askew with your brakes, (or pads, or master cylinder..) I don't think you'll ever stop with the smaller/later cars, but the Hemi Cuda reference tells me yours aren't right... Ken

You are probably right. We will try to sort that out next week-end at Dijon.

Jon Mello · « **Reply #38 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:30:19 PM »

Eric, there are some general braking solutions and advice in this article... http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/bbfh/bbfh13.html

You could try Porterfield brake pads with a more aggressive compound, make sure you have the front caliper reinforcement brackets, and install an adjustable proportioning valve if you don't already have one.

eb911 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 29, 2015, 03:00:56 PM »

Thanks Jon. We already have a proportioning valve and found very efficient pads. I really think the problem is the caliper but on the other hand we can't have the braking power of later german cars !

eb911 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 03, 2015, 04:12:49 PM »

An onboard video in the Camaro during free practice at Spa.
https://youtu.be/wqpLZALIljk

1968RSZ28 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 03, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »

Quote from: eb911 on June 03, 2015, 04:12:49 PM

An onboard video in the Camaro during free practice at Spa.
https://youtu.be/wqpLZALIljk

Bad as hell!!!

Paul

mdz · « **Reply #42 on:** June 04, 2015, 12:40:47 AM »

Love that small block Chevy sounds, thanks and good luck.

Jon Mello · « **Reply #43 on:** June 04, 2015, 03:23:10 AM »

Awesome video. The car sounds great and Spa is such a neat track. Thanks for sharing that, Eric.

eb911 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 10, 2015, 09:39:49 AM »

The third round of the Heritage Touring Cup championship is now behind us. It was a great week-end at Dijon on the ex.F1 track.
We finished 7th in a hot race battling with a slippery and very hot track (30-35 deg C all week-end).
The tires purely melted, and the understeer and "lively" rear axle made of this race the toughest so far.
But 7th is still in our initial goal and we were the oldest car of the grid and the first one with threaded tires.

Few pictures here under

eb911 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 10, 2015, 10:35:41 AM »

One more

eb911 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 10, 2015, 11:48:32 AM »

A nice vid of the rolling start onboard the Camaro.
No grip at all on cold tires and a massive understeer did not help climb in the ranking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Cjx7EEXa4

eb911 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 10, 2015, 11:52:12 AM »

Another one onboard battling for 8th with a light and nimble Alfa Romeo.
Interesting to see a light vs heavy BUT powerful car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOZQUfgz7Ko&feature=youtu.be

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #48 on:** June 10, 2015, 04:31:11 PM »

great video, I see what you mean about the brakes. There is another member on here that raced Camaros in the later 60's against Donahue, he may be able to give you some insight as to alternative brakes, and or tricks they used to stay a step ahead of the pack .
In the earlier pics looks like a pink 66 mustang, and a yellow 67 mustang.

Steve Holmes · « **Reply #49 on:** June 10, 2015, 09:18:36 PM »

Wow, that is such a cool photo ^^

Jon Mello · « **Reply #50 on:** June 14, 2015, 02:52:27 AM »

Great update and a nice result. That track looks like a lot of fun.

eb911 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:13:36 PM »

Last week-end was the 4th round of our championship at the legendary Monza track, the fastest in Europe. It was our first time there, and I have to say it was a blast. Shinny weather but awfully hot (37 C - 98 F) so that it was very hard for the cars and the drivers. As usual our brakes tended to fade quickly so we had to put us in a "save mode" during the race. We nevertheless finished 7th, once again the oldest car of the grid and the first one on threaded tires.
Our best lap was at 152 Km/h (95 Mph) average speed. We don't have the top speed at the end of the huge pit straight but it was probably around 240 Km/h (150 Mph).
Great week-end with good fight with the Escort gr.2, Rover TWR and BMW 635 gr.A.
Few pictures here under and 2 onboard vids to follow

eb911 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:15:32 PM »

Few More

eb911 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:22:13 PM »

Here are two onboard videos :
- Rolling Start : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2RkZCUhwY

- Battle for 6th - 7th : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ck-QulpPt8

MO · « **Reply #54 on:** July 18, 2015, 03:24:33 AM »

Both very cool videos! Nice job!

Jon Mello · « **Reply #55 on:** July 18, 2015, 04:11:05 AM »

Wow, Monza is a track with great history. Thanks for the updates, Eric. We really enjoy the videos and it's great to know how the car is doing.

eb911 · « **Reply #56 on:** September 28, 2015, 02:41:42 PM »

Hi,

I just wanted to share few pictures of our Camaro on the banking at Montlhery, a famous French Track that used to host several world championship events like the FIA 1000 Km of Paris.
The track is only open for demo runs as it is now in a very bad condition. How bumpy is that track ! This was for a motorsport event that gathered lots of interesting cars from Group B to single seater, or vintage racing bikes.
Next will be our last round of the championship in 4 days down south at Le Castellet.

Jon Mello · « **Reply #57 on:** September 29, 2015, 01:34:45 AM »

Eric, that's a great shot of the car on the banking. That must be an amazing feeling.

It looks like you have a fiberglass trunk lid and obviously the spoiler is molded into it. This was not legal for Trans-Am cars in the late '60s and early '70s. Has your racing organization said anything to you about this?

eb911 · « **Reply #58 on:** September 29, 2015, 07:05:40 AM »

Not yet but we will have to remove it. We have already purchases a steel trunk lid. As for the spoiler, are there different type that can be purchased ?

Jon Mello · « **Reply #59 on:** September 30, 2015, 03:09:51 AM »

No, there are not different spoiler types that you can use. Just the style like what you currently have on your car except not molded into the trunk lid. It is bolted on.

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Author Topic: A 1967 Camaro in the 2015 Heritage Touring Cup Championship (Read 31524 times)