Camaro Research Group Discussion > Originality
Service Engines (CE coded)
ZLP955:
I have been researching CE blocks (mainly small blocks) for some time now, and have a couple of questions that hopefully Kurt and/or the other CRG researchers can help with:
1. Does CRG have any examples of warranty documentation for a service replacement engine being installed in a 67-69 Camaro, and if so, are there any known examples of the block casting date preceding the build date of the car? (and if so, curious as to how much earlier?)
2. Did the dealer always issue paperwork for the replacement engine recording the new pad stamp number?
3. What was the process for supply and demand of service engines? i.e. were CE blocks produced by the engine assembly plants on demand from the dealership (assuming the zone rep authorised it), or were they machined, assembled (long, short or bare) and stamped 'CE' alongside regular production engines and set aside until required?
From the serial numbers allocated to Flint and Tonawanda for service engines, seems that would've been an excessive number of blocks/fitted engines etc to store and maintain somewhere, but then it would've taken time for the dealer to order the replacement, for the engine plant to machine, assemble and ship the part across the country, then for the dealer to fit it, all while the loyal customer was without their car.....
JohnZ:
--- Quote from: ZLP955 on December 05, 2014, 10:09:49 AM ---I have been researching CE blocks (mainly small blocks) for some time now, and have a couple of questions that hopefully Kurt and/or the other CRG researchers can help with:
1. Does CRG have any examples of warranty documentation for a service replacement engine being installed in a 67-69 Camaro, and if so, are there any known examples of the block casting date preceding the build date of the car? (and if so, curious as to how much earlier?)
2. Did the dealer always issue paperwork for the replacement engine recording the new pad stamp number?
3. What was the process for supply and demand of service engines? i.e. were CE blocks produced by the engine assembly plants on demand from the dealership (assuming the zone rep authorised it), or were they machined, assembled (long, short or bare) and stamped 'CE' alongside regular production engines and set aside until required?
From the serial numbers allocated to Flint and Tonawanda for service engines, seems that would've been an excessive number of blocks/fitted engines etc to store and maintain somewhere, but then it would've taken time for the dealer to order the replacement, for the engine plant to machine, assemble and ship the part across the country, then for the dealer to fit it, all while the loyal customer was without their car.....
--- End quote ---
1. I had a copy of the service order when my Z engine was replaced with a "CE" short block (plus one new 186 cylinder head) in June, 1970, but it's filed away.
2. I doubt if any dealers made any effort to stamp anything on the pad - they made their money by getting the job done below flat rate and getting the car out the door; stamping "numbers" in those days would have seemed pointless.
3. "CE" short blocks were built based on demand, normally on weekend overtime; without intake and exhaust manifolds and cylinder heads, they had to be manhandled off the end of the engine plant assembly line with hoists and forklifts and placed on wooden pallets which later became shipping crates.
"CE" engines weren't "stocked" at regional parts depots - dealer order for an engine went to GMSPO (GM Service Parts Operations), who sent it to Flint V-8 (or Tonawanda, depending on the engine), and the engine plant shipped the engine direct to the dealership. "CE" engines were only supplied as short blocks or "fitted blocks" - not as "long blocks".
ZLP955:
Thanks John!
So there is no way a CE block could be cast before the build date of the car it was fitted to?
Just to clarify, in point 2 above, I didn't mean would the dealer stamp the pad, but would the dealer record the pad stamp number by writing it on the warranty paperwork?
I understand that there was little margin (if any) for the dealer here, in fact recently followed a thread (link HERE) questioning if the service blocks were even painted by the dealer. Several guys who were involved in the day said not unless the parts dept supplied the paint, but some mechanics would give them a quick paint job if there was some paint left over in the clean-up area.
x77-69z28:
Tim, I think it can be close. Of course depending on how fast you blew up your original block. My 70Z has a CE block cast a week after the production date of the car. It has the replacement POP.
bcmiller:
Tim, there are a lot of factors involved. Why are you curious?
If a car has paperwork on a warranty replacement engine, there is no doubt to it's origin. If someone just has a CE block in their car, there is no way to prove when it was put there without dealer docs showing that.
It could have been put there under warranty or 40 years later. Only docs will prove when it was done.
I am not sure if there was a standard procedure for dealers to follow in regards to whether or not they recorded the CE block number on the paperwork. But they should have recorded what parts were used in the repair.
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