Author Topic: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)  (Read 12474 times)

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« on: October 22, 2006, 10:09:34 PM »
I have a 1969 z/28 VIN #124379L505424, 10D Build date. I have the short rear
spoiler that appears to  have been installed by the dealer. The stripes continue
down the deck lid and I see that the camaro emblem has been removed and
the holes brazed in.

My question is why do the rear stripes start about 5 inches down from the rear glass?
Could the factory have used 1967 stripe stencils?

see pictures.

x77-69z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 855
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 03:55:36 AM »
that looks like a stripe kit for a convert. or a car with a vinyl roof. is is supposed to be orig paint? the 67/68 stripes were closer together. look at the data plate maybe someone took off a vinyl roof.
69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 03:55:59 AM »
Ditto
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2006, 08:29:02 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by data plate. I think you mean the trim tag at the cowl under the hood.
Here it is.

VIN #124379L505424

ST 69      12437      LOS131478   BDY
TR 711               72  72   PNT
    1OD            U471

I dont believe that vinyl top information is included in the trim tag. And I do agree with you in that it does
look like that it may fit a vehicle that had a vinyl top. Where else can I look to determine if the vehicle had
a vinyl top. (Roof drip moldings?)





RickH

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2006, 09:59:16 PM »
"Where else can I look to determine if the vehicle had a vinyl top.?"

You just did,  on the trim tag 72 72 PNT  means Hugger Orange upper and lower. If your car had a vinyl top it would have been 72 B or 72 A.

Rick H.

RamAirDave

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
    • View Profile
    • TheMuscleCarGuys.com
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2006, 11:46:16 PM »
Wouldnt a car that early have the 68 stripe configuration (closer together)?
"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

www.TheMuscleCarGuys.com

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2006, 01:17:18 AM »
A thought regarding the rear stripes. I believe that the spoiler was dealer installed, due to the stripes being painted all the
way down the deck lid, as well as the camaro emblem holes being brazed in.

Is the distance from the bottom of the rear glass to the end of the trunk lid different between 1968 and 1969 camaros?
Could the stencil lengths be different for 1968 and 1969 camaros. Or could the stencil lengths be different if the factory
installed the spoiler or not?

rsatz28

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2006, 12:31:00 PM »
Wouldnt a car that early have the 68 stripe configuration (closer together)?

Jerry's book shows a Sept 68 car with the short spoiler and the 68 stripes.  The short spoilers were used until Jan 69.  His book seems to indicate the 68 paint was limited to just the early cars-September 68.

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2006, 08:33:36 PM »
But, what about where my stripes start under the rear glass. I can so evidence of an accident and the
paint appears original. I have had the vehicle for about 20 years.


RamAirDave

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
    • View Profile
    • TheMuscleCarGuys.com
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2006, 02:58:53 AM »
Jerry's book shows a Sept 68 car with the short spoiler and the 68 stripes. The short spoilers were used until Jan 69. His book seems to indicate the 68 paint was limited to just the early cars-September 68.

Thats sounds right. I wasnt sure of the cutoff date, my JerryM book is at the shop so I couldnt check.
"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

www.TheMuscleCarGuys.com

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3626
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 05:42:21 AM »
Looks like a screwup when someone repainted the car....
Kurt S
CRG

ccmblack

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 06:09:53 AM »
The fact that the paint continues over the edge of the trunk lid indicates that the car originally did not have the rear spoiler - (added by the dealer).  Also the emblem holes would be under the top of the dealer installed spoiler. (The emblem hole mounts were adjusted up the trunk lid for factory installed rear spoilers)  Could the car have had early rear body damage and the previous owner had it repaired.  At that time they may have installed the rear spoiler.  The body shop might have repainted the car this way...just my conspiracy theory.

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 09:01:45 PM »
I purchased the verhicle when it was 5 years old. It's had the same hugger orange paint. The trunk has the
original spatter paint. I've looked inside the back, inside the trunk, and under the car I see no evidence of repair
or repaint. Even the paint under the front window cowl is painted white like the stripes. It even has the original
glass all around.

Here's a thought could the striping be the result of the stencils being moved downard towards the trunk end to
make sure the end of the deck lid had stripes. I noticed that the rear spoiler is about 5 inches wide. Almost the
width of the space that is between the bottom of rear glass and the start of the stripes.

And your right the rear spoiler appears to have been dealer installed. Look at the pics again.


firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2006, 02:15:47 PM »
With out a doubt that is the vinyl roof stripe configuration... I just looked at the pics of Camaro Specialties Barn find original paint Z and the stripes look the same.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

RJ_RS_SS_350

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2006, 03:55:10 PM »
I thought I read one of these threads where it said that the cowl vent panel was painted and striped off the car, so stripe color should not be in the cowl area?   ???

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2006, 08:55:42 PM »
Very interesting about the vinyl roof comments. Could the factory have used vinyl top stencils for my car?
Mistakes do happen.

I think that there is a thread that indicates that original factory paint had the cowl area painted the color
of the stripes. I remember reading that.


JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2006, 03:11:54 PM »
Very interesting about the vinyl roof comments. Could the factory have used vinyl top stencils for my car?
Mistakes do happen.

Nothing is impossible, but an uncorrected error of that magnitude is highly unlikely - it would have been spotted by just about everybody and corrected either in the Fisher Body Paint Shop or in Final Paint Repair after the car came off the line at Chevrolet.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 01:30:13 AM »
Thanks John Z. I have included some additional pictures of the front stripes showing the window cowl
area painted white as indicated in another post as well as showing the stripes are not perfect. They
are feathered and not clean lines.

The second posting shows the rear stripes again. Showing that there is alot of overspary as well.
So, I'm not sure what happened here. Maybe you can see something I cannnot.

Another thought could the factory have used stencils that were made for a spoilered car, and would not
have to cover the area under the spoiler, then when my car rolled through with no rear spoiler, they may
have adjusted the stenciling downwards to cover the trunk area where a spoiler would normally have been.

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 01:31:03 AM »
Thanks John Z.

Second pictures.

RickH

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2006, 01:49:08 AM »
I thought I read one of these threads where it said that the cowl vent panel was painted and striped off the car, so stripe color should not be in the cowl area? ???

The stripe color will be in the cowl area. The cowl area got the same color as the stripes. One of Jerry's books has a couple of good pictures showing how they were done.

Rick H.

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2006, 12:14:32 AM »
Does the car have the original trunk weatherstripping in it?
If so it the ends will not meet in the center it will be off to the left a bit and there should be an orange mark on the weatherstripping... it should be located near the left hand side of the passenger side stripe.

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

asm69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2006, 03:00:10 AM »
I think it does have the original weatherstripping. It is pretty worn out. Should the seem be at the bottom or the
top. What is the relevance of original weatherstripping?

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3626
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2006, 03:07:32 AM »
Just from those pics, I'd tend to say it's been repainted. Never seen a stripe on the cowl taped at the bottom like that....

Is the wiper linkage white?
Kurt S
CRG

RamAirDave

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
    • View Profile
    • TheMuscleCarGuys.com
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2006, 03:53:46 AM »
Those stripe ends look very comparable to these originals:





It would make more sense if it was a stripe delete car, and they were added by the dealer, but the tag doesnt indicate that.
"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

www.TheMuscleCarGuys.com

x77-69z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 855
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2006, 04:06:00 AM »
what on the tag would indicate a stripe delete. i thought that would be on the build sheet.
69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!

RamAirDave

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
    • View Profile
    • TheMuscleCarGuys.com
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2006, 04:16:01 AM »
what on the tag would indicate a stripe delete. i thought that would be on the build sheet.

It would have "- -" for the paint code, rather than "72 72"
"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

www.TheMuscleCarGuys.com

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3626
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2006, 05:59:32 AM »
Thanks Dave, I stand corrected. :)
Kurt S
CRG

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2006, 02:28:34 PM »
Those stripes look very much like the ones on the black car that I have as well... very shoddy tape job.
Stripe bleeds under the tape edge everywhere.

Here is a photo of the orange mark on the original trunk seal this is the pass side stripe...


Asking about the trunk weatherstripping just to see if it was original and if so does it have any overspray anywhere on it... close to where it goes in the channel? it is very hard to repaint the rear end and not get any overspray on the trunk seal unless the whole opening was taped off.

Here is another of the stripe ends... look at the overspray...
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2006, 03:14:15 PM »
Does the car have the original trunk weatherstripping in it?
If so it the ends will not meet in the center it will be off to the left a bit and there should be an orange mark on the weatherstripping... it should be located near the left hand side of the passenger side stripe.


Not necessarily - the Fisher O.D. Sheet for the trunk weatherstrip installation actually showed the joint to be located at the center, adjacent to the trunk latch, with adhesive in the butt joint and the excess wiped off with solvent. Photo below of my unmolested original 02D Norwood car.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2006, 03:43:02 PM »
John does your car have the orange mark on the weatherstripping?
I was told that the orange mark indicated the center of the weatherstripping... and that it was supposed to be offset to the right... guess that was not 100%.
Actually yours is the first I have seen that did not follow this pattern.


The pics I showed are of the unrestored 04C Norwood car... John does yours have weather stripping adhesive oozing out of the channel... I know that this one does in multiple places. 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2006, 03:46:59 PM by firstgenaddict »
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2006, 03:55:46 PM »
John,
I am questioning whether your trunk weather stripping is original or not. The texture of the surface is very smooth compared to the latex ones I have seen. To me it looks like a AM softseal weather stripping, however, if you tell me that it is latex covered foam then I will take you at your word. Would you be kind enough to check it again?

Thanks,

James
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2006, 03:37:27 PM »
It's original to the car, and has a smooth skin with a soft foam core (not solid rubber); has the usual single small bead of black adhesive in the trough, and the small lip on the outboard edge all the way around that seals to the radius on the panels.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2006, 06:51:00 PM »
Thanks John...
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

x77-69z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 855
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2006, 02:54:40 AM »
i thought -- -- paint code was custom paint. did it also indicate stripe delete?
69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2006, 03:22:05 AM »
any thing that was not standard was - -.  ie custom color or stripe delete.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3626
    • View Profile
Re: Early 1969 z/28 (short spoiler)
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2006, 05:24:33 AM »
I was told that the orange mark indicated the center of the weatherstripping... and that it was supposed to be offset to the right... guess that was not 100%.
Most orange centering marks are offset to the right; doesn't mean they were supposed to be that way. :)
Kurt S
CRG