Ron Pratte collection

[Classic Gary]

going up for auction next year in scottsdale, wonder if the green 69 z28 will be there?

[dutch]

Is that the one with the 'RS' on the grille, the questionable history, the previous owner who surfaced and then disappeared amidst threats against him after commenting that the VIN attached to it came from a car he scrapped years prior, and that went for something like $129,000 a few years back?

[lakeholme]

The whole inventory has not been posted yet.  Hope he is okay!
BJ's announcement, so far.

[68 Ragtop]

Here is another article with some pictures of his collection. I do not see the Green Z in any of the pictures (including backgrounds).

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ron-prattes-entire-car-collection-will-be-auctioned-in-2015-photo-gallery-81949.html

Is his collection open to public viewing?

Interesting how the article comments on how he cashed out of the home building market at just the right time. I hope his timing of cashing out of the car market doesn't follow the same course!

It will be interesting to see the net profit (or loss) of his collection over the years.

[69Z28-RS]

He paid way too much for some of those vehicles to make any money....  but I'm sure that was not his goal..  seems he was looking for means to give back to charity...  some deserving.. (and maybe some not so deserving ...)

Didn't he pay over 20M for that ugly dang GM bus/van/whatever it was?

[jack92584]

going up for auction next year in scottsdale, wonder if the green 69 z28 will be there?

Is that the one with the 'RS' on the grille, the questionable history, the previous owner who surfaced and then disappeared amidst threats against him after commenting that the VIN attached to it came from a car he scrapped years prior, and that went for something like $129,000 a few years back

Classic Gary aren't you the previous owner?

[jdv69z]

I thought the attorneys got involved with the Rally Green Z. Maybe he got his money back? Never really heard the out come of all that.

There was a guy in my area who did a lot of Corvette resto's as well as other muscle cars. The place is gone now. Rumor I heard was that he's in jail now for misrepresenting some Corvette that he sold several years ago.

[67ssrsl78conv]

He paid way too much for some of those vehicles to make any money....  but I'm sure that was not his goal..  seems he was looking for means to give back to charity...  some deserving.. (and maybe some not so deserving ...)

Didn't he pay over 20M for that ugly dang GM bus/van/whatever it was?

I believe he paid a little over 4 million for the futureliner.

[Classic Gary]

I thought the attorneys got involved with the Rally Green Z. Maybe he got his money back? Never really heard the out come of all that.

There was a guy in my area who did a lot of Corvette resto's as well as other muscle cars. The place is gone now. Rumor I heard was that he's in jail now for misrepresenting some Corvette that he sold several years ago.

well i dont know what happened, nobody ever came knocking on my door, and Waters is racing at bonneville. so who knows?

[Classic Gary]

Classic Gary aren't you the previous owner?

I'm A previous owner, not THE previous owner. And then only parts of it.....💬

[Classic Gary]

Anybody watch the velocity/Barrett Jackson / ron pratte collection TV show? Very interesting.

[JohnZ]

Anybody watch the velocity/Barrett Jackson / ron pratte collection TV show? Very interesting.

It's on Velocity Sunday afternoon from 2:00PM - 3:00PM.

[BillOhio]

Thanks for posting that john. Should be interesting

[mickeystoys69RSSS]

I am interested in seeing what Junk Yard Dog and Chezoom sells for. My favorite Boyd build is still Whathehey

[68 Ragtop]

Anybody watch the velocity/Barrett Jackson / ron pratte collection TV show? Very interesting.

Yes. It was nice to see the collection, but it felt like the whole thing was an infomercial.

How many times did Steve Davis say "once in a lifetime opportunity'? And does he really need those sunglasses all the time? I know he has an eye condition that requires them on the brightly lit auction stage, but there seems to be no known picture of him without them.

And Cleo Shelby was/is quite a looker. Must have made Carroll a happy man at some point. Glad they got that feud over the body settled!

[Classic Gary]

Big infomercial, I guess a lot was learned about advertising with the closed down chevy dealership auction last year. Tell everyone and tell often!!
On a side note, I THINK I got a glimps of a green Z28, I wonder?

[wtexz10]

Looks like Ron's green 69 Z/RS is included.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z/28-2-DOOR-COUPE-178570/?utm_source=EBlast-11212014&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Excitement%20is%20Building%20for%20Scottsdale%202015

[jdv69z]

Is that the one all the controversy is/was about?

[68 Ragtop]

"blah blah blah... has been certified by Jerry MacNeish"

Let's hope that's not  all some people will hear and assume it's all good.

[69Z28-RS]

Based on past information that surfaced, the two 'key statements' re the '69 Rallye Green Z28  (that Ron Pratte paid $125,000 for it IIRC...)

1. Documentation has been certified by Jerry MacNeish.     IIRC, the documentation IS an original set of documents from a '69 Z28.. 

2. Car was restored with all GM sheet metal,         
Every inch GM sheet metal from NOS or 'other' cars - No sheet metal from that specific VIN ..except for the VIN plate and 'numbers' pieces? 

It's a very nice car, just NOT what was stated by Barrett Jackson when Pratte bought it, AND not what is implied in the current advertising.
I'd call it a super nice 'Recreation' of an original '69 Z28...

[jdv69z]

RS grille emblem??

[BillOhio]

Wonder if Jerry is working the sale? Might put an end to it

[Classic Gary]

I've got an idea, to, "put an end to it". Somebody buy my hotrod, tools, collections, cabinets, ect. I'll buy the car, and sell off the drivetrain, wheels, console, and build it back as a "minor" pro touring car. (Which is what I want anyway). That way it would not be what it is.....it'll just be another pro touring car, albet, a very pretty one. I can get license plates real easy and drive the thing. It would be me putting MY money where my mouth is............AND, I'll GIVE the documents to CRG so everyone will know about the car and it can be the end to this controversy.

(And now comes the shit storm).

[BillOhio]

Car sold for 148500 with commission. It was listed as rebody. So I assume the documents were with the vin tag at one time. I think this was before I got here

[68 Ragtop]

From BJ description:

Car was re-bodied and restored with all GM sheet metal, bumpers and tons of NOS GM parts.

I don't remember the "re-bodied" being there when the car was first listed. Maybe now that Jerry M is responsible for verifying all the Camaro's at BJ and this car is so well known on the Camaro boards, he requested a description change.

Jerry MacNeish and Norman Meads were hired by Vice President of Consignment, Gary Bennett, at The Barrett Jackson Auction Company.  Our job is to authenticate all restored first-generation Camaros, Nova’s and Chevelle’s that are consigned to all Barrett Jackson auctions.  Our mission is to protect the consigners and buyers who attend these auctions by verifying that the description on all vehicles is correct.  If the description states that the car is number’s matching, it is our job to verify and certify that the drive train in the car is original to the car.  If it is not, the consigner must change the description of the vehicle.  Due to all of the fraud and misrepresentation in the car hobby today, Barrett Jackson is going the extra distance to bring honesty back to the collector car hobby.

Everything I saw in the Ron Pratte collection sold well last night and this car was no exception. I was just dissapointed that they cut to commercial when it went across the block. I would have loved to hear the commentary on that one! I suppose they wanted to avoid any controversy like last time when Pratte bought it. Anyone here attend the auction and recall what was said about the car on the block?

[BillOhio]

Seen the burnished brown copo went $300,000. I just saw a highlight and would have liked a close up of the color.

[69Z28-RS]

Seems all the people with lots of 'funny money' showed up at that auction....?

[Classic Gary]

I was there and have a video with sound of the sale. I'm glad to see Pratt didn't get "hurt" on the car, and now everyone knows about the car, even the new owner. I have to say, when I heard the word, re-body, my heart skipped a beat. One thing, I'd like to know, how they figured out it is a re-body. Everyone was so sure it wasn't, back then.

[JohnZ]

One thing, I'd like to know, how they figured out it is a re-body. Everyone was so sure it wasn't, back then.

Jerry M. wasn't there inspecting cars last time - he is this year.  :-)

[jack92584]

Can somebody please explain this all to me? How is it that what is now acknowledged as being a rebodied Z28 with a Jerry MacNeish  report from 2008 stating it has a "restoration drive train" ever be worth anything close to 148K. Confused..........

[69Z28-RS]

Can somebody please explain this all to me? How is it that what is now acknowledged as being a rebodied Z28 with a Jerry MacNeish  report from 2008 stating it has a "restoration drive train" ever be worth anything close to 148K. Confused..........

Only thing I can figure is....  Barrett and Jackson wanted to ensure that Ron didn't *lose money* on that investment?     OH..  and I understand the documents you get with it are great.. 

[Classic Gary]

I don't think Barrett Jackson was ensuring anything. The bid went to 140,000.00 pretty quick, then the rebody was mentioned, and the bid dropped to 120,000.00. It was a struggle to get it back up to 135,000.00. Remember it takes two to play that game.

[Carbuff]

From what Ive seen from Tuesday prices to wednesday prices, If they rolled out a turd on a plate and said it was from the Pratt collection, it would sell for $200k. The same turd would sell for 1/3 of that without the pratt name attached to it. No disrespect to Mr. Pratt. Just an observation.

[maroman]

Remember it takes two to play that game.

Not really, at BJ the owner can bid on his own car. So it only takes one unsuspecting fool.

[BillOhio]

Mecum is allowed to bid up cars to the reserve. I have seen on TV where a car goes good then stops reserve not met. You hear them say we don't have anyone and they go to the next car. Speeds things up but makes it look like someone thinks its worth something

[Steve Shauger]

If we assume that when it was certified, it was as a rebodied/restoration drivetrain vehicle as indicated by the second and final certification. The  professional appraisal value was 100,000-120,000 in 2008. No one on this site questioned the appraisal value then.... I don't know why, to me it was virtually worthless unless you collect documentation.  So logically if it was worth what it appraised for in 2008 at 100-120K, then based on the increased value in cars 148K is not unrealistic in today market.

Again the car has very little value whether it was in 2008 or 2015. There is nothing original and should be valued at nicely restored clone cars...but that's just my opinion.

[jack92584]

Mecum is allowed to bid up cars to the reserve. I have seen on TV where a car goes good then stops reserve not met. You hear them say we don't have anyone and they go to the next car. Speeds things up but makes it look like someone thinks its worth something

Its called chandelier bidding. As mentioned its a way to move things along and get the bids up close to the reserve to see if there are any real buyers near the reserve price and a deal can be made. Its totally legal but can be abused. Worst case I ever saw was this Carolina blue Z28 at the Indy Mecum auction.
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=SC0514-184213
I think we all could agree this car is probably a low six figure car at best yet it was "bid" to 450K and didnt meet the reserve. What stunk about it was that the car was personally owned by Dana Mecum (not disclosed at the auction). Now he can say the value is $450K because thats what was bid?
Anyway, with BJ being no reserve chandelier bidding shouldnt come into play (illegal) and thats why I'm somewhat baffled as to why that Z went for so much. Only thing that makes sense is the buyer got sucked into "Ron Pratte only buys the best" line saw what he had paid for it (125k) and figured it must be worth at least that plus a little more because it now was once part of the Ron Pratte collection. Well good luck to him when he tries to sell it and the potential buyer Googles the vin.

[69Z28-RS]

If we assume that when it was certified, it was as a rebodied/restoration drivetrain vehicle as indicated by the second and final certification. The  professional appraisal value was 100,000-120,000 in 2008. No one on this site questioned the appraisal value then.... I don't know why, to me it was virtually worthless unless you collect documentation.  So logically if it was worth what it appraised for in 2008 at 100-120K, then based on the increased value in cars 148K is not unrealistic in today market.

Again the car has very little value whether it was in 2008 or 2015. There is nothing original and should be valued at nicely restored clone cars...but that's just my opinion.

I would guess that most of us share your opinion, Steve...  but then it IS a *pretty car*, and with B-J pushing certain cars, there are many big$$ folks there who bid on 'pretty', in response to the 'push' that B-J provides them...?   

but personally, pretty or not, I wouldn't trade my original, unrestored, partially-disassembled *real*  Z28 for it.. 

[6667ss138]

The BJ big money phenomenon is definitely confusing for sure. I understand the egos play a part. Its just a shame though because a lot of people watch their results every year to look for indicators of where the market is at on collector cars. They just never seem very reasonable or realistic to me. I went to Scottsdale last year for the first time and watched this pair of 69 Z's bring over 100K. Both were very nice restorations even to the point of being over restored. Both were non numbers matching, JM certified, real Z's. One with JL8 and the other had Cross/Ram. Its hard for me to believe that either one of those cars were really worth that kind of money especially the HO car at 143K (even though I know the NOS Cross/Ram parts alone do bring big money).  JMHO

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Archive/Event/Item/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z-28-2-DOOR-COUPE-160982

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Archive/Event/Item/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z-28-2-DOOR-COUPE-160983

[68 Ragtop]

One thing, I'd like to know, how they figured out it is a re-body. Everyone was so sure it wasn't, back then.

Jerry M. wasn't there inspecting cars last time - he is this year.  :-)

Jerry M inspected the car for the owner before the 2008 auction and the car hasn't changed. What has changed is that Jerry M is now working for BJ and they are trying to reduce the amount of fraud and misrepresentation.

This car was outed on this site and TC, so much so that Mike Joy himself signed up to post about the car.

They really had no choice but to change the description to reflect the re-body. The restoration (re-stamped) drivetrain was noted in the "final" 2008 inspection report, but not in the auction description.

Does anyone see a change in how the cars are described this year? I have. Quite a few Corvettes now being described as having reproduction trim tags.

[JohnZ]

. Quite a few Corvettes now being described as having reproduction trim tags.

Which, in the Corvette world, will disqualify them instantly if they're presented for NCRS Flight Judging, and brand the car as "Counterfeit" in the NCRS judging database. Spotting bogus/reproduction Corvette trim tags became a simple matter since NCRS published the "Trim Tag Book" in 2005. It's the first thing checked (by the Team Leader) before actual judging starts.

[bcmiller]

And that was a welcome addition to the judging John, well for most people anyway.

[bcmiller]

Most of the cars that have sold at Scottsdale this year so far have been overpriced in my opinion.

[rsr]

 It must be that new Barrett-Jackson car care products applied to those that bring the big bucks?

[jdv69z]

Can somebody please explain this all to me? How is it that what is now acknowledged as being a rebodied Z28 with a Jerry MacNeish  report from 2008 stating it has a "restoration drive train" ever be worth anything close to 148K. Confused..........

Is the VIN of the donor body known by anyone? Other than by whoever did the re-body?

[janobyte]

If we assume that when it was certified, it was as a rebodied/restoration drivetrain vehicle as indicated by the second and final certification. The  professional appraisal value was 100,000-120,000 in 2008. No one on this site questioned the appraisal value then.... I don't know why, to me it was virtually worthless unless you collect documentation.  So logically if it was worth what it appraised for in 2008 at 100-120K, then based on the increased value in cars 148K is not unrealistic in today market.

Again the car has very little value whether it was in 2008 or 2015. There is nothing original and should be valued at nicely restored clone cars...but that's just my opinion.

I would guess that most of us share your opinion, Steve...  but then it IS a *pretty car*, and with B-J pushing certain cars, there are many big$$ folks there who bid on 'pretty', in response to the 'push' that B-J provides them...?   

but personally, pretty or not, I wouldn't trade my original, unrestored, partially-disassembled *real*  Z28 for it.. 

    ditto. although I did want to repaint...my car. What I do not understand is how a re-body can stack up against a car whose un-original sheet metal can fit in the palm of one's hand ? And no filler. Of course there are those who go ga-ga over re-stamped carbs and alternators. Guess it depends who is pitching the car. Rule of thumb should be put your hand on what it rolled out off the line with.

[69Z28-RS]

Can somebody please explain this all to me? How is it that what is now acknowledged as being a rebodied Z28 with a Jerry MacNeish  report from 2008 stating it has a "restoration drive train" ever be worth anything close to 148K. Confused..........

Is the VIN of the donor body known by anyone? Other than by whoever did the re-body?

I haven't seen where anyone is bragging about that one.. 

[Classic Gary]

Can somebody please explain this all to me? How is it that what is now acknowledged as being a rebodied Z28 with a Jerry MacNeish  report from 2008 stating it has a "restoration drive train" ever be worth anything close to 148K. Confused..........

Is the VIN of the donor body known by anyone? Other than by whoever did the re-body?

I haven't seen where anyone is bragging about that one.. 

Bragging? Hiding would be a better option. But then nobody really cares anymore anyway.

[Classic Gary]

 This car was outed on this site and TC, so much so that Mike Joy himself signed up to post about the car. [/quote]

wonder if i should ask Mike Joy for an apology, ha ha ha ha ha....................