New guy to forum with Old first Gen

[avnut]

Just wanted to say hi.New guy here that just found this site today.I am an old guy with an old 68 Camaro.I have owned this car for many years having purchased it in 1977.When I got the car it was being drag raced.I believe it to have been an original RS/SS 396.
The car was partially lightened and by that I mean "unnecessary" weight removed like hidden headlights etc.The car had a 396/375HP engine with M22,12 bolt 4.88 Posi.Back in 1980 I grenaded the M22 and found a used M21 for it.I must say it was the most awesome car and I was never beat in street racing.(not that I would admit to such things)In 1982 I made the mistake of lending my car to an inlaw who thereby wrecked it for me.
Raising a family back then and the associated responsibilitys kept the car from being put back together.Lack of available parts over the years didnt help matters.The effects of time and improper storage for a number of years have had a detrimental effect on it also.
The engine that was in the car was sold 30+years ago.I am now wanting to restore the car to its former glory or perhaps close to it.I am wanting to find out more about this car and that is why I found this site and joined up.I have spent this eveing looking for numbers on the drivetrain etc.I will save that for later.Sorry to be long winded so soon out of the gate.
Tom

[ko-lek-tor]

Welcome avnut!! A lot of long time owners here and some young guns too...all are welcome. Look forward to your posts and pics when you figure that out. We are all behind you and many have long time restos in progress, so you are not alone, but you have already probably been reading those posts. Hoping your time money and energy hold out.

[cook_dw]

First things first.  Welcome.     Second, you picked the correct year of 1st gen.     Third, post pictures of the stampings, trim tag and of the car.  Get anything and everything.  Log it with photos.

[z28z11]

Tom,

Welcome to the CRG, from one old guy to another.

Good luck in your search for documentation - as you know, '68's are tough due to the lack of trim tag information, unlike the 7's and 9's. If your car was sold new in your state, your DOT may still have paperwork on file (if you're lucky; a lot have stopped retrieving the records). Worth a shot -

Post pics of pertinent details when you have the time, and search for your VIN in the forum to see if by chance someone might have any original drivetrain parts, or you can ask for your VIN to be searched in the database. Hopefully between the bunch of us we can help you figure out what you have preserved for so long -

Regards -

[MyRed67]

Welcome avnut!! A lot of long time owners here and some young guns too...all are welcome. Look forward to your posts and pics when you figure that out. We are all behind you and many have long time restos in progress, so you are not alone, but you have already probably been reading those posts. Hoping your time money and energy hold out.

X2 ko-lec-tors comment and welcome.  I was lucky enough to find this forum a couple of years prior to starting my restoration, and can't say enough about the wealth of information here.  Keep us posted, and yes we like pics.

[hotrod68]

Welcome, av. We all love our 1st-Gens and will help you in any way we can. No question is a dumb one. We all had to start somewhere! 

[avnut]

Thanks all for the welcome.I will post some pics soon,at least of the stampings/body tag.Some I have figured out,but others will need help on.The restro project seems daunting at this point,but I'm sure some of you have traveled this road.Only good thing that happened years ago was I replaced the subframe after the accident with another used one.I also sandblasted the bottom of car and painted with Zincrom primer whiched helped resist the rust.The car has been gutted 99% for about 9 years.Been in dry storage for probably 12 years.
The engine I do have was acquired back in the mid 80"s.I took the engine apart 10 years back to clean the mouse nests out of it.It checks to be a 427 as it has a 4.25 bore,four bolt mains,3,76 stroke forged steel crank,con rods have 7/16" bolts (boron steel ?)with GM/TRW pistons.The cyl heads are GM Aluminum with rect intake ports and round exh ports with casting  number 3946074.The cam is  solid lifter .
 I know from research the car is a RS due to it having the BU and Park lights below the bumpers and the chrome trim on the lower body plus the headlight switch has vac ports on it.The heater has ports in the center and compares to pics on the net of a big block heater box.I found a part number on the left motor mount of 3912597
The car has a console with gauges in it and a tic tock tach with a 5500 rpm redline,blue exterior,blue interior(std).The rear tail panel appears to have been blacked out, paint wise under the coat of blue from a repaint.The original hood has chrome inserts with 4 stacks in each.The hood was the only major part up front to survive the accident as it popped up when the car slid thru a road sign/rock wall sideways.It still brings back night mares.
I will post more tonight.

[ko-lek-tor]

No question is a dumb one.

First-avnut, can I have that engine? Love 427s ,lol, sounds like a "killer"...and, By the tach (5500), sounds like originally a SS/RS low horse BB car?

Second- Dumb Questions, hotrod68? How about, "I got an original 69Z without an engine, will a Ford 302 fit"? (no lie, Iv'e seen that asked)
my own question, I'm thinking about painting my house...what do you all think of a Hugger Orange house? sounds good, but DW will probably say its a dumb question.LMAO

[cook_dw]

my own question, I'm thinking about painting my house...what do you all think of a Hugger Orange house? sounds good, but DW will probably say its a dumb question.LMAO

Yep.  



All in the fun Bentley...   

[TooManyReels]

Welcome to CRG !!! You came or found to the right place..
TMR

[avnut]

You fellows probably hate pics,but I will throw some up anyway.I would post more if I could get them out of the camera and into the puter.

[daves87gn]

nice and welcome

[avnut]

No question is a dumb one.

First-avnut, can I have that engine? Love 427s ,lol, sounds like a "killer"...and, By the tach (5500), sounds like originally a SS/RS low horse BB car?

Second- Dumb Questions, hotrod68? How about, "I got an original 69Z without an engine, will a Ford 302 fit"? (no lie, Iv'e seen that asked)
my own question, I'm thinking about painting my house...what do you all think of a Hugger Orange house? sounds good, but DW will probably say its a dumb question.LMAO

I can't give it away until finished with it.lol
I suspect it could have had a lower hp 396 also,but have also read that a tach redline is not dependable enough info to go on.
From what I remember the original 396 at least when I got car had a prefix of MR or MT something to that effect.
Off course its all speculation since this car was being raced it may have had lots of changes since new.

[avnut]

Thanks for the welcome TooManyReels and daves87gn

[avnut]

Dont mind the dented filter,only on to keep things clean.

[ko-lek-tor]

Are you sure that is a 427? and not an LS 6 or 7 454?

[69Z28-RS]

I think those were the engines (LS6 and LS7)  the '074' aluminum heads were for....   

[avnut]

Are you sure that is a 427? and not an LS 6 or 7 454?

Yes,this is a 427.I measured the stroke at 3.76.The rods have full floating wrist pins with 7/16 ground shank bolts part number 3969804 and the pistons are 12.5cr part number 3959105.It is internally balanced and uses the same flywheel and dampner as the 396/375hp.

[ko-lek-tor]

Sounds like you know what you have...I still want it...slobber,slobber,lol

[avnut]

Sounds like you know what you have...I still want it...slobber,slobber,lol

Well yeah.It was built to L88 spec. Cost me mucho dollars even back then.Had to dig the paperwork out of the archives that showed part numbers.My only problem is where to find fuel to run it.Still sweet looking even after 30 years.Just waiting to be nestled into a 68 Camaro.Thats one of those engines you dont forget in the way it idles.Makes the hairs stand up on my neck just thinking about the deep pounding of it firing,the rough idle and how you can feel it in your chest.
Damn,Now I just have to get this Camaro restored.

[avnut]

Hummm..An L89 clone?? Now that would be just too sneaky.
PS-Engine pics were taken on 4-18-04 Just found them on my Hard drive.

[Hideawaze]

 Pretty much same story here,  but I have 2 decades of swapmeet parts at the ready, when I am able to put `er  back together......good luck on your project

[hotrod68]

  The 5500 redline tach was for all 396s but the 375hp, and the 327/275 and the 350. Only the 396/375s and the Z/28s got a 6000 redline tach. The 5000 rpm tach was for base 327s. Hope this helps.

[hotrod68]

Hideawaze? I have a bud who has a '68 Rally Sport and he has gone to swap meets and collected used and NOS parts as you have. Over the years he's obtained about every factory option ever offered, and it's all genuine GM parts--the guy is sitting on a gold mine! The car is in storage just waiting to be disassembled and brought back to life. Best of luck to you on your car.

[avnut]

So as best as can be determined without documentation I have a lower HP BB RS/SS that came with a 3.07 12 bolt axle and suspected auto.I dont know how the 396/375 came to be in it,unless the tach was placed in there due to a production shortage or engine was dealer install? I never did have a protectoplate and never found any build sheet.I have a Norwood 04C. I also suspect it had a dealer installed Posi as the original deck lid had a posi decal warning about jacking car.Currently it is a 4.10.
I will have it as a L88 427,Muncie M21 and probably 3.73 gears.I am considering a chambered exh system for it.Talk about a sleeper.I may just put a 396/375 decal on the air cleaner.Since I have no plan to sell I wont care about documents and would never represent it other than what it is if I did sell.
Besides an L88 second design engine is worth quite a bit just by itself.
Now,did I ever mention the time I was offered a SBC Crossram and carb set up for $175 and TURNED IT DOWN?? Also could have Purchased a BBC 3X2 set up complete for $400. Ah.. if only I could have envisioned what that stuff is worth today.

[hotrod68]

You won't be a sleeper with a chambered exhaust system. Those things are LOUD.

[avnut]

You won't be a sleeper with a chambered exhaust system. Those things are LOUD.

Humm.May have to rethink that,but the L88 will need good flow.I know there is quite a few companys out there with systems now.I will plumb it up to the headers.

[KurtS]

You won't be a sleeper with a chambered exhaust system. Those things are LOUD.

And low-flow too.

[janobyte]

2 1/2"  Flow Master bolts up nice and breaths pretty good. Cross over pipe included ,muffler mounts in the original location, tail pipes needed some trimming. ( I ran one) Think it was an American Thunder. Behind a 12.5:1 pretty radical cam 406 sbc I ran in the car. Nice rumble at idle, screams when you put your foot in it. (still have it)---steve

[hotrod68]

   I used a Summit 3" kit with Warlock mufflers. The lead pipes with the Summit system will hug the floor pretty well and the pipes are mandrel-bent and heavy-gauge. The Warlocks have a plug in each muffler held with 3 bolts, like a collector. At the drag strip you just remove the plugs and you have straight-through exhaust without taking the lead pipes loose. They sound about like a regular turbo muffler capped up. The Summit 3" tailpipes will NOT fit. I had my local muffler guy put on 2-1/2" Flowmaster mandrel-bent tailpipes. They fit great and dump behind the rear wheel  and look stock. The muffler guy told me that with the 3" pipes and mufflers, necking down to 2-1/2" tailpipes would make hardly any diffeence in flow on the street. That's how I did it. Good luck!

[avnut]

Somewhere I had come across a system that was set up with a high flow muffle that mounted in the stock location.May have been Jegs.Nice to know the 3" tails wont be a good fit.I guess I have plenty of time to work it out.
The first time around with the car I had Thrush mufflers bolted to the headers and nothing else.Just plain loud especially screaming down the road with 4.88 gears.At 65mph turning like 4600 rpm,but acceleration was like wow...

[Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28]

Very cool, I ran a very similar combo in a 69 Z years ago, at idle it would scare women & children.   

[cook_dw]

I went with this config. 3.5" collector reducing down to 2.5" into a x-pipe and going through Pypes Pro Race Crossflow muffler and the tailpipes are in the stock location.  I think it sounded great but the fiancee thinks its extremely too loud..  lol but still wants to drive it once its finished.  Go figure.  Once I finish with the engine I plan on posting a vid of how it sounds.  Also note that the aftermarket aluminum diff cover worked with the muffler.

Pic of the assembly and fabbing of the exhaust.

[MyRed67]

I also used the 2 1/2 in. PYPES Pro Race Crossflow system behind Headers.  My wife loves it, would rather listen to the exhaust than the Radio.  Here is thread I posted before, Reply #22 & #23.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9411.15

*Note my #23 comment on the 2 hangers in front of the axle.  Also this system exits in almost the same location as original.  I "Bologna Sliced" the end of my tailpipe, but only about 1/2 in. showing.

BTW, Darrell;  nice pic. of the system up under the car.

[avnut]

Thanks for the pic Darrell.I'll have to check that out.

[cook_dw]

Just an FYI this is not a Pypes kit.  Just the muffler was Pypes.  I wanted to be able to tuck the exhaust up against the car and I didnt know how the Pypes system would fit so I went this route.  Cost was about the same as getting the kit but I got a deal on the labor since I was doing 40% of it.

[MyRed67]

avnut,,,I used the complete PYPES system without any clearance issues either as far as fitment or Ground clearance.  I'm going to post a pic., notice I have installed Sub-frame connectors, and the PYPES do not hang lower than the connectors. The lowest part of the Exhaust is the Headers, which is not unusual. I will try to get a pic. in the next couple of days of how I did the tailpipes (Bologna sliced)  BTW, I have over 4,500 miles on this exhaust with no issues.  As an idea of how much ground clearance I have, I took this pic. just laying on the Garage floor.

[avnut]

Looks good (and clean)thanks
Where did you get the system? Was system made for headers or did you have to cut them down?

[hotrod68]

  Lord.................Thrush mufflers! That takes me back to 1975 and a green kid. I bought round Thrush header mufflers and was so dumb I thought they couldn't sell them if they were illegal. After enough tickets I got the message and bought some Hush Thrush header muffflers. Quieter but still too loud for the most crazed of constabulary hotrod cops. More tickets. I found that it wasn't the noise per se........cops just hate hotrods. Back then they were targeted and profiled and persecuted. It was a great revenue racket for the government.

[avnut]

  Lord.................Thrush mufflers! That takes me back to 1975 and a green kid. I bought round Thrush header mufflers and was so dumb I thought they couldn't sell them if they were illegal. After enough tickets I got the message and bought some Hush Thrush header muffflers. Quieter but still too loud for the most crazed of constabulary hotrod cops. More tickets. I found that it wasn't the noise per se........cops just hate hotrods. Back then they were targeted and profiled and persecuted. It was a great revenue racket for the government.

Did you live in my town also?
Describes my hometown to a tee. :0
Got three tickets in two weeks for modified exhaust.I think I was on the "hit list".

[MyRed67]

avnut,,,I got the system (PYPES SGF 70) from JEGS store on EBay. ($513.98 free shippn. in '12)  Summit still has same system $515.99 and free shipping.  Did either Darrell or I mention this system is stainless?  With the limited use the car gets (and pampered) it should out last me.  And yes, this system is "Header back".  If you don't want to use Headers, you have to buy the downpipe separate.
Darrell,,,I had no labor expense.   My Grandfather owned a Gas station and my brother and I worked our way through High School there.  Installed many an Exhaust system in my day.

[MyRed67]

avnut,,,here's pic. I promised of the tailpipes.  You can also see here clearance, car is sitting on the ground.  As I said before, the Headers are the low spot, which is pretty normal.  I also remembered, I cut about 3/4 in. off the front end of the Pass. side tailpipe where it goes into muffler to get more clearance so it wouldn't hit the Mono-leaf spring.

[hotrod68]

  Ha avnut         When I switched to the Hush Thrush I thought I was safe. I actually had a city cop pull me and shine a flashlight up under the car. The Hush Thrush were new and I hadn't thought to paint them black. The bastard saw the bird decal and busted me. It was that bizarre. Every story one might read of cops persecuting hot rodders in the '70s is probably rooted in truth. They checked bumper height, tires outside of the fenderwells.....everything. I even once got stopped for having blue dots in my taillights. It was a different time and a wild one.