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Author Topic: Stripe delete  (Read 6274 times)
cook_dw
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« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2014, 10:40:35 AM »

kolektor,
 I have never seen a La mans blue car with black stripes from the factory, V.T. or not. Marina blue? yes. where did you see that La mans default stripe color information?
      VT

http://camaros.org/numbers.shtml#ExteriorColors

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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2014, 10:50:01 AM »

Ahh 69, I see. . .  don't know those.  Still, I have never seen a La mans blue car with factory black stripes.
       VT
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Mark
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« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2014, 10:52:21 AM »

The 0-0 paint code (or 0-1 (2 or 4) for convertibles) was a special paint instruction code for the 67s in the PNT area of the cowl tag.  The - - - for 68 and - - for 69 (all could have a letter code in the last dash for a vinyl or convertible top color) were special paint instruction codes for 68 and 69.  Note the word instruction.  The code didn't tell the assemblers anything about what color, or if it was a stripe deletion, or if it was going to receive a show finsh, it was just a code to clue the FISHER paint line that there were special paint requirments for this car.  The actual requirements were on a peice of paper that accompanied the car, or were on hand at the paint booth.  The - or - and a number at the bottom of the tag were indicative of an FSO (fleet or Special Order) number.  The two have nothing to do with each other, unless the FSO had a special order or show finish paint associated with it, in which case you would have 0's or -'s in the PNT section and an FSO number at the bottom.

If you think GM cared about either dash on the tag, and used it to delete stripes, or paint a stripe a different color, or even paint the front end a non standard color then your going to have to explain to me how they saw the tag when the rear half of the car was on the Trim engine or Chassis assembly line when the Front sheetmetal was being painted in the paint booth in two separate areas of the plant.  The first time the front end sheetmetal came together with the body tub was in the final assembly line after the engine and running rear was already installed.  They did it with the Body Broadcast sheets.  My opinion, not documented fact.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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cook_dw
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« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2014, 11:36:32 AM »

  The code didn't tell the assemblers anything about what color, or if it was a stripe deletion, or if it was going to receive a show finsh, it was just a code to clue the FISHER paint line that there were special paint requirments for this car.  The actual requirements were on a peice of paper that accompanied the car, or were on hand at the paint booth.  The - or - and a number at the bottom of the tag were indicative of an FSO (fleet or Special Order) number. 

I believe that is what I said or at least was trying to say but just in a much more condensed version.   Grin


I will have to respectfully disagree with you Mark.

I fully believe that the " - - " was used for stripe changes and/or deletion as well as special colors.  This would give everyone (Fisher or GM) a heads up to look at the buildsheet to verify color/stripe/whatever change.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
Mark
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« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2014, 11:56:01 AM »

The first part of that wasn't directed soley at you or your coments just a long winded explanation of what the tag codes meant, and who saw them.  Now the second part might be.

You see the guys in the Sheetmetal assembly and paint shop on GMs side of the plant NEVER actually saw the trim tag, or the car itself.  they just got sets of front end sheetmetal, off the line, they welded the inner frames to the fenders, punched emblem holes in them, and painted them based soley on the info on the Body Broadcast sheets that came off the printer.  From there they went out to the final assembly line for installation on the body by a whole other group of UAW gus (and gals).  They (the GM paint booth guys) never saw the cowl tag or the body tub, and would have no idea what they said on them.  Bumblee bee, and the other front end stripes were all painted in the GM paint booth after the body color but before the front end sheetmetal was bolted together.  The 67 fender line pinstripes, and the 69 D96 stripes were painted after the front end was assembled onto the tup on the final assembly line.  But those weren't code onto the Fisher Tag anyways.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2014, 11:57:19 AM »

The first part of that wasn't directed soley at you or your coments just a long winded explanation of what the tag codes meant, and who saw them.  And yes the deletion of a panel blackout on a big block would probably have resulted in a special paint instruction code on the tag.  Now the second part might be.

You see the guys in the Sheetmetal assembly and paint shop on GMs side of the plant NEVER actually saw the trim tag, or the car itself.  they just got sets of front end sheetmetal, off the line, they welded the inner frames to the fenders, punched emblem holes in them, and painted them based soley on the info on the Body Broadcast sheets that came off the printer.  From there they went out to the final assembly line for installation on the body by a whole other group of UAW gus (and gals).  They (the GM paint booth guys) never saw the cowl tag or the body tub, and would have no idea what they said on them.  Bumblee bee, and the other front end stripes were all painted in the GM paint booth after the body color but before the front end sheetmetal was bolted together.  The 67 fender line pinstripes, and the 69 D96 stripes were painted after the front end was assembled onto the tup on the final assembly line.  But those weren't code onto the Fisher Tag anyways.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2014, 12:42:08 PM »

Going back to Darrell's post (#45) the footnote (4) regarding LeMans Blue says that only White stripes have been observed...Hmmm...makes me even more curious what could have caused my tag to be - - ? Does the color look like 71? This is a real curiosity to me that I thought KurtS settled, but perhaps not. Only other thing that was different about car are the XT rims seemed to be painted Argent and I do not know if this was done after car left factory. There is blue under the silver, but whoever painted them, did so with tires off as there is overspray on inside surface where tire mounts. Just because there is blue under the silver could be someone at Nor. did not see notes and corrected to what order said? Just speculating at this point. Would like to hear what others have to say and this is nothing against Kurt's expertise, which I respect deeply, but I have never been real sure about this TT's meaning.
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Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
cook_dw
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« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2014, 01:21:43 PM »

I feel that Kurt is correct in his logic but without the buildsheet you will never be 100% sure.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2014, 01:34:02 PM »

DW, thought you were going to tell me tag is FAKE...still remembering last time you messed with my head Grin Grin Roll Eyes
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Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
cook_dw
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« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2014, 02:01:52 PM »

Weeelllllll now that you mention it......  It does look a little funny.. Grin
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
Mark
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« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2014, 03:30:03 PM »

If the original owner of your car didn't order full wheel covers (car came with dog dish wheel covers) then your wheels wold have been painted body color by the factory.  Again this occurred off line and nowhere near the car.  All the wheel line knoew was car number X (build order number for that day) called for standard (or XT, or Rally, etc) and the car was going to be Y color.  Rallys were easy, they were all argent silver.  All the others they would have to get the paint color off the broadcast sheet.  5 wheels at a time came down the line (unless there was a space saver which must have created some kind of havoc) and were were painted as required, then they were baked off and tires installed.  Again there was several tire options.  Keeping them all straight, getting the right color wheels onto the right tires and keeping the groups in order from one end of the line till they got to the car was an exercise in organization and control, nothing happened by chance in an assembly plant.  If the wheels got painted the wrong color, or had the wrong tires mounted they probably wouldn't find that out until the final inspection of the car, and they wouldn't repaint the wheels, they would just get a new set made, and send the wrong ones back to be broken down and reused.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »

The gentleman I talked to  years ago car that had factory color 68 l78 car had never been repainted did have black tail panel. As for my  68 corvette bronze Camaro the original owner told the dealer he would not take the car if it came in with a stripe on it. He sold the car in 1970 but he special ordered it & remembered every option on it. It also had the black tail panel.  So my question is why do they talk about the special paint car & stripe delete car having a - instead of paint codes in the Camaro forum in the trim tag section in this group if was not so! I have owned the car since 1981 & had very reputable car collector look at  car. Asked me why  I didn't stripe the car showed him trim tag saw the -  for paint code  first word he said was stripe delete car. His name was Chuck Hanson.
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Mark
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« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2014, 05:54:00 AM »

If it was built before January of 68 Corvette Bronze would have been a special order paint color.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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cook_dw
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« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2014, 06:31:40 AM »

If it was before Jan of 68 it would have had "Z-Z" or in this case "Z-2".  But its a June built car.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
JoeC
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« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2014, 09:18:42 AM »

it is interesting that there was some need to show special order cars with a special trim tag and sometimes was as little info as just a dash (-) on the tag

I have had a special order 1969 Chevelle since 1986 so have been interested in these special trim tags which made up a very small percentage of the tags but can be found when you compare the special order tag to the normal tag

I also research all GM cars and trucks that I think were special orders and have seen some tags with the dash, a dash and a number, a number, the letters COPO, MEMO, AVO, SHOW, and others, and some cars that used the 8 digit Dupont paint code in the normal paint code field

Some 1968 Camaro special order cars had a very unique identifier which was to install the older Chevy tag with the Magic Mirror statement
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