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Author Topic: 69 Z/11 L78 Pace Car "Unrestored survivor"  (Read 1775 times)
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2014, 05:39:42 AM »

On BB TH400's the trans VIN is just above the Engine Vin on the edge of the trans housing directly across from the Block Casting Number.
If they aren't the same then...
Unless my eyes are deceiving me I read the block VIN as 11N6xxxxx. I swear I see identical shadows/highlights where the upper tail on the 1 would be.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
6667ss138
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2014, 08:40:02 AM »

One reason I posted this car is because it is a very rare and beautiful car that caught my eye. The other reason I posted it is because it is up for sale on an open public site for a lot of money. I truly feel that this site is the most fair and informative Camaro site anywhere period!! As much as i would love to own a car like this (and i have owned a Z/11 in years past) I am not in the market at this time. The problem is in today's classic car world there are so many fake, restamps and clones that have helped to ruin and hurt the value of our beloved hobby. That keeps experts on here and other sites constantly keeping data and records so that when these cars come and go for sale over the years we have some help to look back on in case one of us are in the market. Since I have been on this site I have been shocked to see so much dishonesty and forgery with these classic Camaro's.
Now with that said I am in NO WAY saying that I believe this beautiful rare car falls into that category. To me the only things that looked worth questioning is the clear, crisp VIN stamp on the block that are usually very hard to read. Also, unless it was a factory mistamp shouldn't the VIN stamp have been 19N6xxxxx and not 11N? Factory misstamp??  James brings up a good point, a simple check of the trans stamp could help to answer that. Also, the very, very early casting dates on the block, exhaust manifolds, 3:55 posi rear etc. raised a question in my mind. Even though they seem way to early I guess anything is possible.
I am in no way questioning you or the current owner but from 1969 to 2006 is a long time and we definitely know the engine was out and things were done through those years. Again a clear shot of the transmission VIN could clear that up easily as they should match the block exactly. All the best to your friend with his sale and hopefully our discussion on here will help to validate this rare and beautiful car and help him to sell for it for top money. That is my hope!
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
sdkar
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 12:31:06 PM »

I have a 69 Pace Car with a build date about a week earlier and a VIN about 2,000 earlier.  My partial VIN is stamped by the oil pad as well, and it is not even remotely as clear as the one on this vehicle.  Futhermore, it has a 9 in front of the N.  Just sayin. 
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jdv69z
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2014, 03:07:33 PM »

So if I understand this correctly, the block has been decked so the originality of the block cannot be verified that way. The casting date of the block is Aug 68 on a May of 69 build car, which also brings into question the block's originality. Then there are questions regarding the VIN stamping on the block. I do not see how the block can be verified as original. It could have been replaced at some point, and all the other parts of the engine, and of the car for that matter, still be original. For the $$ involved, I can see why the scrutiny.
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Jimmy V.
Rick 69 BB 4sp pace
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2014, 09:14:27 PM »

Hi everyone, New member here.  I have a similar issue as this car that might help me. I have a 69 396 4speed pace car.  Ive tracked it back to 1978.
I, too have the'11N' date code on the engine, specifically 11N 625385.  My block has also been decked way long ago.  When I got the car in 2001, I had the engine cleaned up and it was found to be 60 over already and had recently had an engine rebuild…The shop told me similar to the other stories on here..blocks in the 80s were always decked. My casting date is C 20 9, and my car is an 03E car…all line up quite well.

What I am trying to learn is does anyone know why the block would have had a stamping of '11N'?  Im the second one to have that it seems.  My car seems to have a complete matching driveline.  Id love to hear from anyone who can help with the credibility of a '11N' stamping.
Rick
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2014, 09:47:25 PM »

Does that same '11Nxxxxxx' stamping appear on your transmission?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Rick 69 BB 4sp pace
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2014, 09:56:00 PM »

Im not sure, should it?  I can get under there and check again

RIck
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BULLITT65
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2014, 11:17:01 PM »

Please check, the more information we can accumulate the better we can piece together what took place back then... Wink
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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Rick 69 BB 4sp pace
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2014, 07:26:28 AM »

To answer Bullitt65's q, my tranny is DC'ed with the '19N'..

I also found another car on this forum with the '11N' issue…Its the hugger orange DZ forum, a car that was on Ebay in may.
His car also has the 4sp with the '19N', but the block with the '11N'.  So thats 3 cars on CGR forums with this anomaly.

Any others ever seen this?  any guidance?

Rick
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Rick 69 BB 4sp pace
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2014, 12:05:13 PM »

Hi All,

Just an interesting update.  I was contacted by another pace car owner. .Our numbers are only about 120 off.Also an 03E car, 350 automatic. It is a bow tie gold winner. Looks like his car was built the same day as mine, being #625510 to my 625385.   he also has the '11N' on the block casting area…also, his '6' is non existent…mine is barely legible also.  Any other 03E cars out there with this issue?

Rick
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