Author Topic: This is a good looking car!  (Read 3754 times)

6667ss138

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This is a good looking car!
« on: April 09, 2014, 04:11:17 AM »
Would be curious as to what you guys see (if anything) that was done incorrect with this restoration.Tag and stampings look original?? Especially the VIN stamp near the oil filter? A lot of repop parts on it?
Nice looking car!  VIN 124379N613141
Just noticed the X33 trim on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28-302-DZ-s-matching-drivetrain-documented-Body-off-restoration-original-GM-/151273278401?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2338970bc1&item=151273278401&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Len H.  Kansas
1969 Z/28 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, born with drive train, complete 3 owner history.
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, born with drive train, original CA black plates

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 04:17:51 AM »
You are right, it is a good looking car (but I'm not a fan of white interiors), and original documentation is with it..  BUT...

The engine app code (deck) and VIN stampings do NOT look original or correct to me...  

This appears to be a restamped block; maybe the original blew up and they 'made' one to match the car and the PTP??  
- The pad has been decked (can see machine marks), and the location of the stamping doesn't appear to be in the normal factory location.  
- The VIN stamping is not similar to other factory VIN stamps in that location that I've seen.
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

6667ss138

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 04:21:12 AM »
Yeah the stampings looked questionable to me too.
Len H.  Kansas
1969 Z/28 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, born with drive train, complete 3 owner history.
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, born with drive train, original CA black plates

jack92584

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 05:00:16 AM »
Car has been sold twice at Barratt Jackson here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=938&aid=221
and here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=711&aid=443

Both times its was described as having a “correct” block. Now according to the ebay ad its numbers matching. Buyer beware.
69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented

Azure1969Z/28

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 06:43:44 AM »
Car has been sold twice at Barratt Jackson here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=938&aid=221
and here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=711&aid=443

Both times its was described as having a “correct” block. Now according to the ebay ad its numbers matching. Buyer beware.
Just a Few Things Noticed: Lot 938 has Headers (in the picture) but listed as Correct Z/28 Manifolds, Rosewood Wheel, No clock, No Firewall Assembly Markings  Lot 711 has Stock Exhaust Manifolds, Standard Steering Wheel and the Factory Firewall Markings Have Appeared (the shifter looks wrong) On Ebay the Car has a Clock and looks like New or Detailed Exhaust Manifolds. "SURVIVED 45 Years"

m22mike

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 11:53:01 AM »
Looks like a repop trim tag, ??

Mike
X66 L78 M22 4.10 Deluxe Threads, PNT 10/10, Red Hockey stripe

68camaroz28

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 12:19:14 PM »
Car has been sold twice at Barratt Jackson here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=938&aid=221
and here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=711&aid=443

Both times its was described as having a “correct” block. Now according to the ebay ad its numbers matching. Buyer beware.
Just a Few Things Noticed: Lot 938 has Headers (in the picture) but listed as Correct Z/28 Manifolds, Rosewood Wheel, No clock, No Firewall Assembly Markings  Lot 711 has Stock Exhaust Manifolds, Standard Steering Wheel and the Factory Firewall Markings Have Appeared (the shifter looks wrong) On Ebay the Car has a Clock and looks like New or Detailed Exhaust Manifolds. "SURVIVED 45 Years"

Not sure what meant by "no firewall assembly markings" as most of that is restoration graffiti as JohnZ once called it (LOL). At the one sale posted whoever bought that for $56K got a heck of a deal no matter what things one could find wrong. Nice looking car but stamping & pad surface, stop?????? Which then makes the vin stamping on block suspect. Just curious, any of you have the a-arm bolt orientation (bolt head out) as the one picture shows? The AIM is that way but believe every car I've ever looked at had the thread side out except for one 69 Firebird I noted a few years ago.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

Kelley W King

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 12:25:55 PM »
So now that makes 40,001 69 Z28,s out there today?
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition

z28z11

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 01:04:56 PM »
What sticks out to me, the fact that people don't understand that guys like us watch and record these things, or have good enough memories to catalog cars like this that pop up for sale periodically. Unless they start altering VIN numbers, we'll continue to catch 'em. Caveat emptor (or something similar, if I remember high school Latin correctly).

Regards - 
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

ko-lek-tor

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 01:07:01 PM »
 
[/quote]

. Just curious, any of you have the a-arm bolt orientation (bolt head out) as the one picture shows? The AIM is that way but believe every car I've ever looked at had the thread side out except for one 69 Firebird I noted a few years ago.
[/quote]


Chick, Are you talking about the large bolt that goes through the bushings on the frame end of 'A' arm, I assume. My three Nor. cars all have the bolt heads facing the front, like the picture. In fact, most I see are that way, I believe. May start paying more attention.
Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

ko-lek-tor

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »
So now that makes 40,001 69 Z28,s out there today?

Kelley, here are 40,002 (Burn'shd Rust Brwn), 40,003 (LeMans Blue), & 40,004 (Fathom JD Grn.)! They are all over the farm, you know...Trim Tag and Block stamps for these gems forthcoming?! ::) ::) ::)
Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

janobyte

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2014, 02:16:10 PM »
Wonderful patina on the tractors

Who originally restored the Blue 69 on Ebay ? Car looks familiar via the net. Graffiti and all (I like that)   Pretty car.

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2014, 02:29:44 PM »
Car has been sold twice at Barratt Jackson here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=938&aid=221
and here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=711&aid=443

Both times its was described as having a “correct” block. Now according to the ebay ad its numbers matching. Buyer beware.

A 'Barrett-Jackson' or 'BJ' car, SCARES me more than it impresses me..  :)
(knowing what all has occurred at those auctions in the past)...
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2014, 02:38:59 PM »
So now that makes 40,001 69 Z28,s out there today?

Well, Unless one believes the protecto-plate is fake, OR that this is one of those situations where someone has *Made* a car to match existing documents, then it is a factory Z28...  per the PTP...  (the PTP looked good to me).. but it wouldn't be the first time someone has made a car to match good documents... (Ref the Rallye Green Z28 that sold a few years ago at BJ for $125K or so..)...
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Mark

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2014, 03:00:04 PM »
Thats one of Mark Young's cars.  He has had some nice original cars, but he has also peddled some "less than authentic" vehicles over the past 15 or 20 years, including an 06A 67 small block RS only Canadian pace car that suddenly became a "matching numbers"big block after he bought it.  If he's involved you had better have the car gone over with a fine tooth comb, by someone who knows them inside and out.  Not saying this car wasn't originally a Z28, but it isn't sporting an original engine in that ad.

Yes the DZ stamp is a restamp, its on the wrong side of the engine pad for starters, POP's don't normally age in spots like this one.  Just saying.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

janobyte

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 03:13:05 PM »
Car has been sold twice at Barratt Jackson here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=938&aid=221
and here:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=711&aid=443

Both times its was described as having a “correct” block. Now according to the ebay ad its numbers matching. Buyer beware.

A 'Barrett-Jackson' or 'BJ' car, SCARES me more than it impresses me..  :)
(knowing what all has occurred at those auctions in the past)...

Lawsuits, correct ?

For profit, not for free service. And nothing's really for free. Anytime someone wants to put their hand in your wallet, be cautious---common sense.

It's all glossed up wording: "correct" "born with" "to the best of my knowledge , may or may not be original to this car ,but period correct to most or all original or non-original NOR Z/28's as has been well document in popular books written on the subject ,copies of all original documentation available after final sale ,which is final" 2x's final.

having some fun...

"Pictures and descriptions subject to change ,but are current upon submission of initial posting' "feel free to contact with any questions" blah blah blah...

I sell you 70 grand worth magic beans, feel free to sue for your money back after agreeing to above. LOL

May not be pertaining to the car in this thread ,but when you browse ebay...

68camaroz28

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 11:43:25 PM »


. Just curious, any of you have the a-arm bolt orientation (bolt head out) as the one picture shows? The AIM is that way but believe every car I've ever looked at had the thread side out except for one 69 Firebird I noted a few years ago.
[/quote]


Chick, Are you talking about the large bolt that goes through the bushings on the frame end of 'A' arm, I assume. My three Nor. cars all have the bolt heads facing the front, like the picture. In fact, most I see are that way, I believe. May start paying more attention.
[/quote]

Yikes, brain fart this morning or becoming more mature (better than getting older). As soon as I went to the garage I thought what the heck am I talking about! Sorry everyone! Yes, the bolt is oriented correctly and the AIM shows it opposite. Did see one 69 original Firebird that had the thread sticking out the front. Going back to my sick bed now. :)
\
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

janobyte

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 11:50:55 PM »
Nothing wrong with getting older...as long as we don't get old ! 8)

ko-lek-tor

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 01:14:19 AM »
Yea, sometimes I think I am getting old...but I really can't remember ;D
Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 01:29:43 AM »
Well, when I put mine back together after replacing bushings, etc.. I didn't recall how those bolts were oriented, so I went to the AIM... :)
so now mine are thread and nuts out.. forward... per the AIM.

I'll have to go back and find photos hopefully of that area prior to removal to see how they were originally...?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

BULLITT65

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 04:36:28 PM »
Looks like a repop trim tag, ??

Mike

thats what I was thinking, but why not go with a X33 if he was going to do that.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car! (Lwr Control Arm bolt orientation)
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2014, 06:12:03 PM »
Re:  the lower control bolt orientation:
Chick wrote:  "...... Just curious, any of you have the a-arm bolt orientation (bolt head out) as the one picture shows? The AIM is that way but believe every car I've ever looked at had the thread side out except for one 69 Firebird I noted a few years ago."

Well, when I put mine back together after replacing bushings, etc.. I didn't recall how those bolts were oriented, so I went to the AIM... :)
so now mine are thread and nuts out.. forward... per the AIM.

I'll have to go back and find photos hopefully of that area prior to removal to see how they were originally...?

OK..  I dug thru my photos searching for a 'before' photo, and I finally found one.. which show the original orientation of the lower control arm bolts on my car as being 'forward' which matches the AIM, and is how I re-installed them after the cleaning and rebuilding...
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

VINCE Z28

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2014, 08:04:26 PM »
Mark C.  is right about Mark Young, I've heard many non flattering things about him and that was years ago. I know Jerry M. has went to court against him. So if you buy any car from Mark Young do your home work.....
" He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught"  It's not you...  It's just the way my brain is wired.

janobyte

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 10:01:06 PM »
What ?? A somewhat dishonest used car salesman ???

Boston14

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2014, 06:01:25 AM »
You guys got me questioning the orientation of the lower control arm bolts. I had reinstalled them according to the AIM, but went searching through my before pictures just to check........ guess what,  now I am going to turn them around.  woops.
boston14

1969 SS/RS 350 Convertible
Dover White with Black Top and D90 stripe, Red Standard Interior

jack92584

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2014, 03:04:46 AM »
69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented

tom

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 07:23:35 AM »
The ad states the Ivory/black interior is "rare". I looked up the estimates for interior colors, and see no mention of ivory/black. Is this a rare interior choice? Just curious because that's what I have.
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

jack92584

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2014, 02:38:17 PM »
Sold Mecum Seattle auction $55,000
69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented

jmcbeth

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2015, 03:52:52 PM »
Just getting to the point of installing the lower A-ARMS and saw this thread. My Legends car has the lower A-ARM bolts, facing toward the rear of the car (head of bolt to front of frame), but the AIM clearly shows the bolts facing forward. Can someone confirm that the AIM is wrong?

Also, AMK indicates that the bolts are parkerized and nuts are natural, but my legends car is bolts and nuts natural. Which is correct?
John
1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
Numbers Matching

69Z28-RS

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2015, 04:15:30 PM »
Why would you think it was *wrong*?   Some original cars (at least) are installed consistently with the AIM; there may be others installed oppositely.   All that would mean is that the assembly line workers did not *always* follow the AIM (unless you know of some reason that the AIM installation is incorrect, or unsafe or ???).. Do you?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

BULLITT65

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2015, 07:28:08 PM »
Makes sense Gary.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

janobyte

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Re: This is a good looking car!
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2015, 11:30:37 PM »
Car might have been built on a Monday ,or Friday, or after a holiday :D.