Model Specific Discussions > Trans-Am Camaros
Trans-Am cheating fact or fiction ???
satman:
Anybody who is a fan of early Trans-Am racing has probably heard stories of blatant cheating taking place by the factory teams. Having competed in the series back in the day, we were certainly aware of the fact that there was some, shall we say, 'creative engineering' taking place. Though, we never really knew to what extent it was happening.
My question to members of this forum is how bad do you think the cheating really was? …............. Did John Taminus and the SCCA inspection crew turn a blind eye to what was going on? And, if they did, was it detrimental to the sport ?
AL
crazyamc:
My opinion (very strong, I might add- but, it's just an opinion..) is that, YES, done probably by all of the factories or front-runners. Often tried and never caught or it didn't matter on back markers... 2. some was "uintentional".... case in point; ( Car Life, Wagging the Dog article).... " Ford had only produced about 700 Boss 302's at the start of the season... considering the SCCA could not find a single Tunnel Port Mustang the year before.... obviously, Ford never intended to sell TP's, but sold Boss cars quite rapidly..... parts homologation/production is another story.... then we get into tech, specs, weights, etc by individuals...... My opinion? Sure, a ton of these stories are part of the fascination and lore of the times,cars,and people we idolize..... the "good 'ole days"....... Let me pose this question to the few who actually competed at the time; At that time, did it make you really mad when "they can't do that?" .. " I can't buy that!"..... "You can see as plain as day that's not right!" came out of your mouth? I can tell you as a current vintage racer, it's probably more prevalent, and USED to get me very upset..... I build and race my car LEGAL and CORRECT, even if no one else does..... Would the racing been better had no one 'cheated'?? probably not- just a tad slower, with a few slightly different results in a few instances.... but again... just my opinion.. Ken
BULLITT65:
Good topic Al. So I have 2 questions: To the best of your knowledge was it widely known that the Penske team would use the #9 car for tech inspections on both cars and just change the number to 6 for the Donahue car?( I read that somewhere)
Secondly regarding Smokey Yunick and other gear heads like him, was he admired for trying to bend the rules so much with ingenuity, or was he and other crafty engineers like him viewed or thought of as "cheaters". Or was it more the case everybody was trying to slip something by the tech guys so you just hoped you had the smartest guys on your team who could give your car(s) the edge ?
ko-lek-tor:
I am hesitant to comment too much about this topic, as I am no racing expert nor have I been around the folks who did race. I did admire Smokey, very much, and read many things he wrote concerning this topic and followed his engine building ideas. I would start off by saying that if you were getting beat by Smokey or others, then you regarded them as a "cheat". If you were on the team that was winning, then, I am sure, you would regard the car builder a genius. So, it went both ways. What I recall Smokey saying, is that if the rule book did not address something specifically, then it was fair game. So, in essence, Smokey and others were responsible for the rules being created by their "innovations". I think one "mod" Smokey told was, that the fuel tank could only be a certain size (which he conformed), but he went on to state that there was no place that said the roll bar could not be used to store additional fuel. Cheat or innovative? you decide.
satman:
Ken,
First of let me say that the SCCA tried to do the best they could with a handful of people where Nascar would have a small army to inspect roughly the same amount of cars............... Did they overlook stuff, yes they certainly did I can remember being at St. Jovite in 69/70 when one of the local track stewards who was helping SCCA with the inspection produced a set of body templates to make sure that all the cars conformed to manufacturers specifications. The local guy was told to remove them from paddock as they had no intention of using them, obviously SCCA did not want to open a big can of worms.
We all know about the acid dipped bodies and creative suspension mods and I am fairly sure that for the most part I think that a lot of teams were using over sized engines....... To the best of my knowledge SCCA never bother to test engine displacement till 1972 after getting a lot of pressure from the independents. I am not sure about Penske doing a car switch but it certainly would not surprise me .........But I do believe they were caught being 250 lbs underweight in a post race inspection at Sebring.
As far Smokey Yunick is concerned from what I read he was quintessential cheater but I don't think he had any influence in the Trans-Am series.
AL
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