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Author Topic: Are There Any "Off Limit" Areas in Your Restoration?  (Read 1146 times)
ko-lek-tor
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« on: February 23, 2014, 02:21:26 PM »

In a current response (in the decoding/numbers section) regarding the crayon markings behind rear seat, it got me thinking about this question. I am about to send my car off to the body shop. This comes with great trepidation, as it should. I have not been this scared of getting something I own "hacked" on since I got the ole' vasectomy. sorry TMI.lol. Anyway- Is there any area you tell your body guy or as a DIY, tell yourself, that you want it left original and untouched? The crayon marks behind the seat, mine has "X2" and barely readable, I am telling the shop to mask it off and do not sand, paint or touch that area. I, also, am making the same request for the hidden VIN on top of cowl and cowl trim tag. Please do not touch, strip, sand or paint these, just mask them off, I will instruct. What do you guys think? Are you in agreement? Is there anything else you would make sure is left original? Some might question, why are you doing this? It is kind of like the strip of bricks left at the Indy Brickyard, just to prove what is original under the pavement preserving a little of the past. I think for originality and posterity and as a connection or link to the car's past is why I am doing this. Those areas are only original once. Cool
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:09:29 PM by ko-lek-tor » Logged

Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 03:51:04 PM »

My position is this:  Leave as much 'original' as you can. 
ie. If the 'original factory item' is good and still represents factory production, HOW could anyone 'restore' it to the same condition, look, feel, etc???
The only time I feel justified in 're-doing' something is if the 'function' is impaired, needing rebuilding, or if an item 'condition' is such that it will further deteriorate, in those cases, the item requires work or reconditioning; otherwise, cleaning and preserving is all that is necessary or required.  (but I'm an originallity freak).. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
ko-lek-tor
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2014, 04:07:13 PM »

Gary, I am an originality freak also. That is why I ask. Unfortunately, my car had a custom paint, as can be seen. The car has rust also. The decision I made was to re-paint car. To avoid quality issues and overspray, I pretty much got her down to the bare body naked. everything will be re-painted-cowl,sub-f.,trunk, etc.. so, as much as I would like it to be a survivor, it is basically getting a paint and re-assembly of all the original components fixing or re-placing what is needed. I guess it will be a semi-preserved car. I don't want the underside painted either. Is there a preservative or clear that will protect underside and inner panels from corrosion and rust? When I had 1/4 put on in 83, the guy used this product:  http://www.waxoyl-usa.com/ .Anyone else have a recommendation?
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Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
janobyte
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 06:39:23 AM »

To your question ,yea. Under the rear deck lid + hinges ,wheels, top of fuel tank, factory lead ( roof/quarter seam) " goop" on the sides of the cowl ( see pics). Factory panel alignment ( pretty damn good from Norwood !) Weather stripping--doors always shut with 2 fingers, staying that way. Trunk. OE drums and rotors are getting shelved with the exhaust and tires. Still in spec. and irreplaceable. All markings and sheet metal codes were documented. (pics). Interior, trim,glass--staying. All bushings getting replaced ,OE's getting shelved. 4:88's staying as the Lakewood bell housing (OE's shelved). Lot of posts on finishing underneath--check it out.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 10:28:19 AM »

IF I WERE taking my own car somewhere I would clean around the markings well, lay some wax paper over the markings then a piece of heavy canvas maybe 3-5 inches larger, then get the best duct tape and clean with alcohol the metal and canvas backing as you lay the duct tape over the whole area, take a 2nd layer in the opposite direction. and write implicit instructions DO NOT REMOVE!!!!
Not saying it will prevent anything from happening however I would sleep better knowing it was there and IMHO I believe it is your best chance in averting an irreversible mistake!
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Sauron327
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 11:08:33 AM »

I guess it will be a semi-preserved car. I don't want the underside painted either. Is there a preservative or clear that will protect underside and inner panels from corrosion and rust?
With the floorpan and rear frame rail rot I've seen on your car, how are you not going to paint the belly? Blasting is a requirement for proper repair. Cavity waxes are available from multiple companies. Other post paint rust prevention measures should also be taken. Your bodyshop should know all this.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 11:08:41 AM »

IF I WERE taking my own car somewhere I would clean around the markings well, lay some wax paper over the markings then a piece of heavy canvas maybe 3-5 inches larger, then get the best duct tape and clean with alcohol the metal and canvas backing as you lay the duct tape over the whole area, take a 2nd layer in the opposite direction. and write implicit instructions DO NOT REMOVE!!!!
Not saying it will prevent anything from happening however I would sleep better knowing it was there and IMHO I believe it is your best chance in averting an irreversible mistake!

I've seen duct tape take off paint when it was removed.  Perhaps that would only occur with 'new paint', and not 40-yr-old original paint, but to be safe, I'd suggest a different type of tape to hold on the 'mask'.  Otherwise, I agree with what james is suggesting re the multiple maskings..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
rich69rs
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 11:20:42 AM »

I am just now finishing the paint and body project I've always wanted to do on my '69 RS since I purchased it in Nov 1991.  When I first acquired the car it had already been repainted and the original engine was long gone.

As I have owned the car over the years my intent has been to maintain an original appearance.  That began with acquiring a '69 Camaro 327 engine to replace the non-original, non-Camaro engine that was in the car when I acquired it.

Over the years my attitude has modified slightly - especially when it came down to the $$$$$ for the paint and body work.  Since my car is neither an  "all original" or "big dollar" car I decided to improve on original if it made sense.  This had included powder coating many pieces including the inner fenders, license plate brackets, misc. brackets, and the wheels.  (Obvious departure from original factory.)

I also had the DX1 stripe put on the car and unlike original the stripe is under the clear coat to achieve a smooth slick finish as opposed to being on top.  Then come to think about it - I can 't replicate the original factory paint anyway - no longer available - and with the base coat / clear coat systems available today - trying to replicate a late '60's laquer system to me wouldn't be the way to go - even if you could.

So although the car still basically looks original, and due to it just being a "nice secretary's car" (as one guy described it to me at a show last year - I asked him where his '69 Camaro was - he turned and walked away) for my money I wanted to improve on factory if it made sense to me to do so.

Partial VIN under the cowl got painted with the body - didn't hurt a thing - clearly visible after paint.

My car has a B and X11 crayon marks in the interior.  They have been left as found - covered when necessary during painting.

Good luck with your project.
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Richard Thomas
1969 RS
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 11:45:36 AM »

It can only be original once and I've finally admitted that to myself... mine is getting a new floor pan and full quarters will replace the 80% quarters put on back in the 80s. It will never be a surivivor again because nature wasn't stopped a long time ago. The only things now that I don't want touched are the X66 crayon mark and the trim tag. Everything else I want blasted, prepped, primed and painted as correctly as I can afford. I only want to do this once and I don't want to fool myself into thinking that original is better than protected from future rust/rot.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 12:05:49 PM by SgtHawkUSMC » Logged

Hawk
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ko-lek-tor
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 12:16:34 PM »

I guess it will be a semi-preserved car. I don't want the underside painted either. Is there a preservative or clear that will protect underside and inner panels from corrosion and rust?
With the floorpan and rear frame rail rot I've seen on your car, how are you not going to paint the belly? Blasting is a requirement for proper repair. Cavity waxes are available from mul
I am just now finishing the paint and body project I've always wanted to do on my '69 RS since I purchased it in Nov 1991.  When I first acquired the car it had already been repainted and the original engine was long gone.

As I have owned the car over the years my intent has been to maintain an original appearance.  That began with acquiring a '69 Camaro 327 engine to replace the non-original, non-Camaro engine that was in the car when I acquired it.

Over the years my attitude has modified slightly - especially when it came down to the $$$$$ for the paint and body work.  Since my car is neither an  "all original" or "big dollar" car I decided to improve on original if it made sense.  This had included powder coating many pieces including the inner fenders, license plate brackets, misc. brackets, and the wheels.  (Obvious departure from original factory.)

I also had the DX1 stripe put on the car and unlike original the stripe is under the clear coat to achieve a smooth slick finish as opposed to being on top.  Then come to think about it - I can 't replicate the original factory paint anyway - no longer available - and with the base coat / clear coat systems available today - trying to replicate a late '60's laquer system to me wouldn't be the way to go - even if you could.

So although the car still basically looks original, and due to it just being a "nice secretary's car" (as one guy described it to me at a show last year - I asked him where his '69 Camaro was - he turned and walked away) for my money I wanted to improve on factory if it made sense to me to do so.

Partial VIN under the cowl got painted with the body - didn't hurt a thing - clearly visible after paint.

My car has a B and X11 crayon marks in the interior.  They have been left as found - covered when necessary during painting.

Good luck with your project.
It can only be original once and I've finally admitted that to myself... mine is getting a new floor pan and full quarters will replace the 80% quarters put on back in the 80s. It willl never be a surivivor again because nature wasn't stopped a long time ago. The only things now that I don't want touched are the X66 crayon mark and the trim tag. Everything else I want blasted, prepped, primed and painted as correctly as I can afford. I only want to do this once and I don't want to fool myself into thinking that original is better than protected from future rust/rot.
tiple companies. Other post paint rust prevention measures should also be taken. Your bodyshop should know all this.

All you guys, very grateful for the imput and I mean ALL, not just the ones I respond to.
Saron (Scott)-My ignorance in my statement of not painting bottom. Perhaps wishful thinking, wanting car as I remember it and not wanting it all shiny new looking.
Richard-My car is lot like yours- a mongrel of sorts, but original in many respects and I too want to make it original looking, I anticipate having to modify my attitude also when it gets to the $$$$ part of the bodywork. Some of my comments are more inline with my desires and not the realities. I need to be pulled back down to Earth as bodywork gets underway.
Hawk-My thoughts exactly. I think I should clear up when I say areas I do not want touched as meaning that I desire it to look as original and I am afraid that might not be able to be replicated if stripped. As said trying to get grounded and get realistic and let go of some crazy ideas I may have. Preservation is very important. I am under the philosophy of doing it one time right instead of three times wrong. I am doing this once and would be very dissapointed to have car needing redone in say 5 ,10 or whatever years. That is why it is stripped down to just the body and that is why I am not just price shopping for bodywork. Any measures or advice to insure car will not rust out again, like painting or coating(rustproofing) areas the factory neglected are appreciated and welcome before I get BW done. I hope you guys understand. There is a side that wants to be a rigid originalist, yet the practical and preservation side of me knows that some of my ideas need modifying and there is room to compromise and areas that can be done better than factory to insure work lasts.
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Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
BULLITT65
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 02:20:53 PM »

"So although the car still basically looks original, and due to it just being a "nice secretary's car" (as one guy described it to me at a show last year - I asked him where his '69 Camaro was - he turned and walked away) for my money I wanted to improve on factory if it made sense to me to do so."

Rich, even though the guy was kinda making a back handed complement, I like your response.. Cool



I would agree with Gary on this one, if it can be cleaned and and kept intact I would run it as is. You would be surprised how much 0000 fine steel wool will bring a piece of trim back to looking 99% new. If it is un avoidable and you have to make a repair such as sheet metal, sure replace as necessary. Any car I have acquired I try to keep as original as possible, cleaning the parts that can still be utilized, and replacing those that need it. This is wether it is a survivor or not. I just think your doing the car justice trying to hold onto as much originality as possible.

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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
big iron
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 03:24:11 PM »

It can only be original once and I've finally admitted that to myself... mine is getting a new floor pan and full quarters will replace the 80% quarters put on back in the 80s. It will never be a surivivor again because nature wasn't stopped a long time ago. The only things now that I don't want touched are the X66 crayon mark and the trim tag. Everything else I want blasted, prepped, primed and painted as correctly as I can afford. I only want to do this once and I don't want to fool myself into thinking that original is better than protected from future rust/rot.

2X
Bob
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janobyte
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 05:28:34 PM »

Think I met that guy Rich ( he's at every show) about 20 years ago when I liked shows, swear to god told him the same thing. Funny he don't show up on the other side of the tracks(drag strip) Wink   Which reminds me ,appeared every 68 z was sold in N/E Ohio as every expert I talked to either 1. owned one or 2. has a friend who owns one.  Did you ever meet the expert who will tell you they only put 302's in Fords Huh (honest conversation)

Sorry kolektor  no link to pics ,nothing real interesting ,and my body man has all the strip down/panel shots. We'll be getting it all together in the future ,not a priority right now. All totaled I think we are around 400-600. Digital is a wonderful thing ,they add up quick. Keep in mind that includes every number (pretty much) on the car. His pics are for his reasons: documenting his work and what wasn't under the paint.
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tom
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 05:18:55 AM »

OFF LIMIT for me is big dollar date correct factory parts

Rich, I'm on a similar track with my 307 PG. It will never be a big dollar collector car, it doesn't make sense to spend stupid money for a rare date correct but still not original part. I am mildly upgrading as I go. It will be years before sunlight sees my car again, but it will have upgrades for safety and reliability. Looks will be kept stockish, patch panels will be used where possible instead of full panels, some may be Pontiac (not NOS) I like the idea of the Trans Am spoiler and the hood tach, might be interested in an l88 hood. The missing vinyl top will be replaced, I also plan on the dx1 stripe, sound will be modern but discreet, and less than a bazillion watts.  For now it sits in the garage, some of it in boxes. The kids, my wife, and my school are higher priority for both my time and money. Yep, almost 60, back in school, starting over again. I still have my 69 Camry, and when money and time allow, I will continue to get things done on it until I drop, or I drive it. Bought it in the 90's, still haven't driven it. Maybe I'll actually meet some of you at the Charlotte AutoFair in April. Hoping I can make at least one day of it, and add a little to my project.

Tom
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speedo
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 11:35:49 AM »

OFF LIMIT for me is big dollar date correct factory parts

Rich, I'm on a similar track with my 307 PG. It will never be a big dollar collector car, it doesn't make sense to spend stupid money for a rare date correct but still not original part. I am mildly upgrading as I go. It will be years before sunlight sees my car again, but it will have upgrades for safety and reliability. Looks will be kept stockish, patch panels will be used where possible instead of full panels, some may be Pontiac (not NOS) I like the idea of the Trans Am spoiler and the hood tach, might be interested in an l88 hood. The missing vinyl top will be replaced, I also plan on the dx1 stripe, sound will be modern but discreet, and less than a bazillion watts.  For now it sits in the garage, some of it in boxes. The kids, my wife, and my school are higher priority for both my time and money. Yep, almost 60, back in school, starting over again. I still have my 69 Camry, and when money and time allow, I will continue to get things done on it until I drop, or I drive it. Bought it in the 90's, still haven't driven it. Maybe I'll actually meet some of you at the Charlotte AutoFair in April. Hoping I can make at least one day of it, and add a little to my project.

Tom

I hope to make that show again as well, Tom... maybe we can somehow coordinate a 'CRG meetup' one day at lunch or something?   That show is definitely one in which to find parts if you are diligent and keep your feet moving and your eyes on the parts piles..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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