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Author Topic: 69 Z on ebay - twin  (Read 1770 times)
KurtS
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« on: February 02, 2014, 09:01:56 PM »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291054987259
Same colors, most of the same options, same town, VIN right next to his. About as twinsy as you can get to Gary's Z. Smiley

Oops, forgot to add the VIN: 124379N686644
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 02:29:52 AM by KurtS » Logged

Kurt S
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 09:29:03 PM »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291054987259
Same colors, most of the same options, same town, VIN right next to his. About as twinsy as you can get to Gary's Z. Smiley

Wow..  I had to run to the basement to make sure my car didn't get stolen and restored today while I was in Nashville..  Smiley
VIN of that car is 3 units ahead of mine, but BDY NBR is several thousand behind.  Engine with exact same date assembly; transmission also dated the same.   The biggest differences besides that one being restored, and mine unrestored is that one had folddown rear seat and endura bumper, and came with standard interior (now upgraded to b/w ht).. and mine has standard bumpers and rear seat and orange/black houndstooth.    I was/am unfamiliar with that car, but I will try to check it out tomorrow...  and try to find out some more about it.

PS.  I recall seeing an unrestored car very similar to that one about 10-15 yrs ago, just a few miles from me, but I never found the owner, and the car disappeared and I never saw it again..   this *could* be that car now restored.    If so, I'll find out who locally restored it.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 09:44:54 PM »

These orange black stripe RS/Z's are coming out of the woodwork. The tag is suspect to me though....
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Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 09:48:02 PM »

Good to meet you today, Gary - hope you enjoyed the Nashville hospitality. We enjoyed having you up here -

I don't want to start an uproar, but the tag R&R on this car has me a little concerned, as does the crisp lettering. Obviously new rivets, too.

On the upside, a very good looking vehicle. Price is on up there as well. Give us an update after you check this out -

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 10:38:30 PM »

I enjoyed meeting you, and Sport (CorvetteBronze68?) , and Darrell as well, Steve.. and being able to swap some Z stores with you!  Smiley
That swap meet was a lot larger than I had thought.  I left home at 6:30, got there at 8 am, and had to park about a mile away down the hill.. I was wore out by the time I got the building.. Smiley

I'm going to try to get a look at that car tomorrow, and I will post it up.   If anyone on CRG is interested in it, I'd be glad to pose as your 'precheckout inspector'.. Smiley   (another CRg phoned me tonight and said he also thought the TT was a bit suspicious).  I'm not expert on fake trim tags, but I'll take a closer look if I can see the car.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Mark
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2014, 06:33:41 AM »

That tag pictured above is a repro tag, I've had an image of it since August of 2009.  Since all the other dates on the driveline match up with a know car, probably a color change, or addition of the RS options.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2014, 08:04:50 AM »

I enjoyed meeting you, and Sport (rare396bronze) , and Darrell as well, Steve.. and being able to swap some Z stores with you!  Smiley


Good to be able to put a face with the name and good talking with you as well..!!..   Smiley
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2014, 08:05:57 AM »

I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2014, 08:53:06 AM »

I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
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R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
Mike S
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2014, 11:58:14 AM »

I also agree that tag is definitely a repop.  
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?

  I can't comment on the tag but the rust pits I can. My 67 BB convertable was apart when I bought it around '79. The motor had a spun bearing and was yanked out of the car so the block sat on the water pump side with no water pump on the ground for years and sank up to the heads with the pad buried. The owner died of bone cancer several years later after coming back from Viet Nam (likely agent orange) so the car sat for years in his parents back yard rotting until I bought it. The pad was pitted a lot and you can hardly make out the stampings but the numbers are there no less.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 12:28:38 PM »

I can make out the rear BU code, but not the date?

Based on the pics provided, overspary inside and on the frame rails, it appears that it could have been an original Hugger Orange Camaro.

Wouldn't blacked out rockers be correct for this RS?
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cook_dw
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 01:00:57 PM »

I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?

  I can't comment on the tag but the rust pits I can. My 67 BB convertable was apart when I bought it around '79. The motor had a spun bearing and was yanked out of the car so the block sat on the water pump side with no water pump on the ground for years and sank up to the heads with the pad buried. The owner died of bone cancer several years later after coming back from Viet Nam (likely agent orange) so the car sat for years in his parents back yard rotting until I bought it. The pad was pitted a lot and you can hardly make out the stampings but the numbers are there no less.

Mike

I believe the pad is legit.  Disclaimer - At least by the pics shown.   Wink

I can make out the rear BU code, but not the date?

Based on the pics provided, overspary inside and on the frame rails, it appears that it could have been an original Hugger Orange Camaro.

Wouldn't blacked out rockers be correct for this RS?

That would be correct.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2014, 01:14:08 PM »

Small detail, but the car has gauges, but no clock. Hmmmmm
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2014, 01:21:32 PM »

Another "small" detail the drivers door likely has been replaced, it should have 2 ribs moulded into the door for the blue vin sticker (which also isn't present). I know Gary's car has the ribs and the original sticker .... Wink
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2014, 01:23:06 PM »

Also should have side post battery cables, right?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
cook_dw
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2014, 01:53:06 PM »

Correct.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2014, 03:03:06 PM »

OK..  I called and arranged to go by and look at the car this morning.  I met with Brandon Damson (grandson of owner, Jerry Damson), and Rick Hall (employee of the dealership).   Both guys I met are knowledable car guys (Brandon is fairly young) and Rick is around 60 and a lifelong Chevy car guy (but neither are 'experts' on the '69 Camaro to the degree of we Camaro freaks on CRG.. Smiley ..  

Brandon's grandfather purchased the car 2 yrs ago from the owner of a Gadsden AL Nissan dealership (the car was on their showroom floor for some period of time, and called 'finished'), although Rick told me there were a number of things they did after they purchased it (rebuilt the rear end for one thing), and they exchanged the 'reproduction standard seat covers' for the houndstooth repro interior (to match the installed custom interior door panels).  The owner Jerry Damson has owned the Honda dealership here in Huntsville for many years, and before that had a used car lot here in town.   He and his son (Deke) have been acquiring quite a collection of 'collector cars' over the past 15-20 yrs.  The '69 Z28 was sitting next to a very nice and original '68 Z28, in the midst of nearly forty cars or more? other exrremely nice cars (from woody wagons of the 30's up thru a Ferrari and many many more).   I was unable to check over the car very well due to the close quarters.  They offered to move it out but that appeared to require moving many cars, so I did not ask them to do that.   From what I saw, the paint on the exterior of the car is excellent.  I was able to open the hood and look around in the engine compartment.   It has exhaust manifolds without the taps for the smog, and the smog is not present.   It has a 309 master cylinder - dated 146 or 149 best we could see, but I was unable to read/see the stamped US code and nor could be see the stamped codes on the booster.   The ZL2 air cleaner seemed to have the characteristics of an original unit and other ZL2 parts were present.  I could not see/read the date on the hood (due to thick paint), but Brandon said he thought he could see a semblance of a number under the paint.  The hood latches were painted, and the inside of the lower front valence was in red-oxide primer (no overspray).   You fellas have already pointed out a few other things like the battery etc which are incorrect for the timeframe.  I wanted to check the rear end date code, but due to the situation was unable to do so, but Rick did bring up the original higher resolution photos on his computer and we tried to make out the full code..   We *believe* it's a  BU 0810 or 0819G2 which would be in the correct ballpark date wise and the BU code is right.  Rick thought he could make out the 'C' outfront but I couldn't see it well enough to say for certain..?    Oh..  Rick had said in his video and verbiage in the ad, that the shifter was 'wrong', but actually it's correct for '69 (round Hurst shifter handle) with chrome knob.   They thought it was supposed to be like their '68 Z28, so they thought it was incorrect.   Rick and Brandon were very nice and accommodating, and took the comments I made the way they were intended, as educational, and not critical.   Rick told me he could probably find out who restored the car before they purchased it.   I also pointed out to them that they could learn *almost* all the details of the first gen Camaro on the CRG site and forum.  (I say *almost* since we are all still striving to learn more every day).. Smiley

If anyone is seriously interested in purchase of the car, I'm sure they would move it out, or put it on a lift to allow full inspection, but I didn't want to ask them to do that just so I could see it (I have one like it already).. Smiley    They also allowed me to take photos of some of the other cars in their warehouse storage, which I appreciated.   The only two of their collection which is for sale is the '69 Z28/RS and a '70 Cuda with 440 six-barrell (in the same ballpark pricewise).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 03:21:24 PM by 69Z28-RS » Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Mike S
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2014, 04:07:30 PM »

Gary,

 Did you mention that some here at CRG have doubts of the trim tag to them?

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2014, 06:51:38 PM »

They have stated in a response they have been told the trim tag is a repro.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2014, 06:55:37 PM »

interesting, I wonder how it will affect the value.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2014, 07:59:23 PM »

Way too much money
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1slow64
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2014, 08:28:12 PM »

$105!?!?! is that a typo?
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69 X66 RALLY GREEN BLACK COMFORT WEAVE
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2014, 08:37:12 PM »

Gary,
Looks like a good evaluation.
I'm sending you a PM
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Phillip
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2014, 09:11:54 PM »

Hard to tell but I do not see a speedo hole or holes for the clips.  Surprised no one else noticed this..

No trans hole.



Now theres a hole and its too far back.



No reinforcement ring.





2 possibilities.

1.  Rebodied car
2.  Faked car and found all the parts.
3.  The tunnel was replaced.

Also Im not 100% convinced that the body wasnt an A/C car.  Hard to tell and it might be the lighting but it looks like metal work on the top of the cowl.

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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2014, 09:19:13 PM »

1969 Camaros did not have a "reinforcement" ring around the shifter hole and the forward hole which retains the clip for the 4 speed Muncie cable is visible in the pics you posted.
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2014, 09:24:25 PM »

1969 Camaos did not have a "reinforcement" ring around the shifter hole and the forward hole which retains the clip for the 4 speed cable is visible in the pics you posted.

Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   Smiley

Paul
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cook_dw
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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2014, 09:26:07 PM »

You are correct about the ring.  I was looking at my 68 when I typed that.  And now that you mention it I do see the clip hole in the tunnel now too.  But that could have been drilled after the fact.  Still a lot of questions on this car that make you raise an eyebrow.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
cook_dw
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« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2014, 09:27:17 PM »



Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   Smiley

Paul

Wonder why.  Its not like the console gave the floor any support.   Huh
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2014, 10:08:43 PM »

Gary,
Did you mention that some here at CRG have doubts of the trim tag to them?
Mike

Yes, I told them that some had expressed that view, and I also told them how to get to CRG and the forum.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 10:37:53 PM »

Attached are a couple of photos which show how closely the cars were packed in this large building.  No room to open doors or do much of anything, and my camera began acting up for some reason which impacted my photo taking.

I also sent Rick a copy of my posting on the CRG, and I received back this response from him.
"Hey Gary this car is Actually Deke's which is Brandon's dad.  I 'll be glad to get any info for anyone interested to help document this car but my eyes don't let me see the small details anymore so I have to rely on the pictures or someone with eyes that can.  Thanks Rick "
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2014, 11:30:49 PM »

when are they going to be off loading the 68 Z?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
cook_dw
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2014, 12:37:51 PM »



Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   Smiley

Paul

Wonder why.  Its not like the console gave the floor any support.   Huh

Nevermind.  After rereading your post you say without console.  I need my eyes checked.. Cry
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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