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Author Topic: Original 67 327 ?  (Read 793 times)
Inspector78
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« on: January 31, 2014, 05:26:22 AM »

With the information provided on this excellent web site, it is apparent that 1967 327's do not have the partial vin stamped on the block. My question then is it an accepted industry standard that if the cast date, assembly date and fisher body date all line up correctly then it is an original engine? How hard would it be to duplicate or find a correct date block?  I'm interested in buying a 67 convertible that I found on-line but do not want to waste my money if its not the original engine. I thank you in advance for your help and advice.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 09:00:29 AM »

For cars/engines in years that did not get the engine VIN stamp, it's much easier to find a GM original engine that is 'A' correct engine for your car.  Even though it's not 'THE' born-with engine, without the VIN, it's impossible to prove that the engine didn't get installed in that car (assuming the date is within an allowable range, and all the associated parts/work match up correctly.  In such a case, there is no reason to modify any of the markings on the engine to be 'correct' for judging.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Inspector78
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 02:48:14 PM »

I'm wondering then how any 327 of that year is labeled as numbers matching if there is no absolute proof.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 03:03:48 PM »

I'm wondering then how any 327 of that year is labeled as numbers matching if there is no absolute proof.

"Numbers Matching" has as many meanings as there are sellers, but the only one that matters is "born with"; on a '67 327, all you can really PROVE is "date-correct" without a VIN stamp.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 03:04:16 PM »

I'm wondering then how any 327 of that year is labeled as numbers matching if there is no absolute proof.

Yup, for '67 the closest thing to absolute proof on engines that didn't have a partial VIN stamp would be that the engine assembly stamp would match the POP.

Paul
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JohnZ
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 03:07:05 PM »

I'm wondering then how any 327 of that year is labeled as numbers matching if there is no absolute proof.

Yup, for '67 the closest thing to absolute proof on engines that didn't have a partial VIN stamp would be that the engine assembly stamp would match the POP.

Paul

And that doesn't positively nail it, as the engine plant probably built several hundred of that particular engine suffix that day, all of which will have exactly the same engine plant stamp.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 03:12:00 PM »

I'm wondering then how any 327 of that year is labeled as numbers matching if there is no absolute proof.

Yup, for '67 the closest thing to absolute proof on engines that didn't have a partial VIN stamp would be that the engine assembly stamp would match the POP.

Paul

And that doesn't positively nail it, as the engine plant probably built several hundred of that particular engine suffix that day, all of which will have exactly the same engine plant stamp.

That's true.  For instance, if your '67 POP shows V1214ME as the engine assembly code, you could buy the following block (assuming the stamp is original) and no one would be the wiser!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Chevy-Camaro-327-Small-Block-Chevy-Short-Block-Engine-3892657-657-302-ME-/370799640853?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5655618115

Paul
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Inspector78
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 03:19:33 PM »

Thanks for all the input although it's a bit disheartening as I now feel as though I'm chasing something that does not exist.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 03:58:08 PM »

What are you chasing?? .. ie.. What is your goal?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
lakeholme
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 04:44:08 PM »

What these guys are telling you is "industry standard" some 47 years later. 
What 67 are you looking to buy?  Give us a link.... or at least some pics and a description.
Answer Gary's question about your goal....
As to wasting your money, that depends on what you spend.  I wouldn't look upon a nice undocumented 67 as a waste of money....
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Phillip
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"Charlotte AutoFair -- presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA -- is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast." --September 18-21, 2014
Inspector78
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 05:18:46 PM »

Let me cut to the chase. The car that I'm interested in is listed on caronline.com. Marina blue convertible.  I would love to hear any opinions as I'm still doing my homework on it. As for what I'm chasing, a 67 Camaro convertible. Has to be number matching. All other options have varying importance in my mind. Thank you all again.
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lakeholme
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 06:02:47 PM »

As in THIS ONE?
You have good taste!  Grin
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Phillip
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Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair -- presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA -- is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast." --September 18-21, 2014
Inspector78
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 06:18:38 PM »

That's what I'm hoping will be "my one". any opinion? Let me clarify my waste money statement by saying that I simply do not want to overpay. I looked at what the car sold for at that auction and am now comparing it to what a similar car would cost at the same auction what is now 8 or so years later.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 11:22:13 PM »

That's a nice looking car; work seems to have been well done, but you really have to see them in person to inspect closely and KNOW that to be true.   Personally, if 'numbers matching' were the big deal to me, I'd look for a 'never restored' car... as I believe you'd be more likely to find one with original mechanicals.    that one obviously has a lot of parts not put on any Camaro in 1967..   it just depends on what you want...?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Inspector78
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2014, 12:29:35 AM »

Thank you Gary and Phil for your opinion and insight. It is well taken. In your opinion, after looking at the pics and info, do you believe it to be original to the car? Its obvious that with this particular engine in this year, it all comes down to a matter of opinion. You guys on here have more experience then I do so your thoughts are much appreciated.
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