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Author Topic: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available  (Read 20521 times)
Ed Bertrand
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« on: January 16, 2014, 02:53:11 PM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the ordering dealer code, dealer name, dealer location, and the production date that your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/ and again, note that this service starts in mid April, 2014.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 10:04:33 PM by KurtS » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 03:05:57 PM »

Awesome! Thank's ED for that infomation, I will sure use it.
    Victor
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 03:21:20 PM »

I saw that this morning.  Good stuff.  Definitely will be taking advantage of this service once its available. 
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 07:08:12 PM »

Excellent!
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 07:34:05 PM »

Ignorant on this, assuming submit vin ? Pretty neat ,looking forward to giving it a try. #1 looked but retained no paperwork ( at first he thought he might have) Luckily POP was kept in the glove compartment--in the owner's manual. All these years.( In my safe now.)
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 07:47:02 PM »

Thanks Ed. Any additional info I can find about my car is always a big plus.   Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 07:53:27 PM »

Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 08:32:11 PM by VINCE Z28 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 08:36:38 PM »

It can give someone a shot of finding what state their car came from.  From there a possible title search can be done in hopes of finding original owner. Wink
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 09:16:56 PM »

Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
It's helped many NCRS members find info pertaining to their corvettes!
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 11:23:46 PM »

Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 11:29:10 PM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 11:33:46 PM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.
Thanks,

I don't think so - you're already way ahead of the curve (and a lot of us) with the P-O-P. Better documentation doesn't happen - You might consider putting that $50.00 fee on parts or supplies -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 12:27:03 AM »

Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 01:42:12 AM »

Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
Steve

Is this information actually coming from GM Heritage, or are they just allowing it to be released from a third party source such as National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB)?

AFAIK, this information has been known as recorded by NICB, but only accessible under special circumstances. It seems NCRS has arranged access for the common man. Great news.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 02:06:03 AM by 68 Ragtop » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 01:46:04 AM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,


You have what you believe is the original POP. What if the records show an altogether different dealer than the one shown on your POP?

I am sure this will catch more than one person by surprise. Maybe not you, but for sure there are a lot of made up POP's out there with guestimated dealerships that are not going to match official records.
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68 Ragtop
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 01:51:31 AM »

Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.

I don't think you are going to get much out of Jerry for $50. Even if you purchase a full blown "certification" what you will get is Jerry's expert opinion on what the car is today. I would bet even Jerry would recommend this service, or provide it as part of his appraisal.
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68 Ragtop
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2014, 01:59:48 AM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.

This is great news Ed.  I will try it as soon as it is available. I have always suspected my car was sold locally and never ventured far from SoCal. It even has a California dealers license plate frame that may be original. If not, at least I will know what to look for in the future.

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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 04:21:31 PM »

I will cerntainly use it. Both my 69,s history stops in the 70,s. My Z is reportly a Scuncio High Performance car with some items to prove it but this would be the icing on the cake. My L78 is documented to the 70,s in PA. If that is where is was sold I know where to look harder.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 10:58:26 PM »

Ed thanks for the info, that is great news that I might be able to find history beyond 30 years ago. My history trail stops at a used car lost around 1983. George
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2014, 12:10:31 AM »

I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2014, 08:56:10 AM »

Anyone know if there was much dealer exchanging going on back then? Where the delivered to dealer may be different than the selling dealer?

Very exciting info! I already know where my 69 came from, Eaton Chevrolet in Washington, DC, but I'm excited to learn more about my 68.
I've known my 69 was ordered and sold by Eaton Chevy for about 10 years now but, other than the building still there, I haven't found ANY other info about the dealership...no history, no ads, no promos or name plates...No nothin.
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2014, 10:29:05 AM »

I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe

No. You already have the VIN, date produced, and dealer (on the MSO).
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2014, 10:51:35 AM »

John Z do you know of any state that allows us to do a title search on our 1st gen camaro's?
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2014, 11:19:46 AM »

Here is paper work from the Oregon DMV transfering a 69 camaro from one dealer to the other for a customer.
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2014, 10:45:31 PM »


Thanks Ed!  I think it will be $50 well spent in my case.
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 04:29:38 PM »

Smiley  I did it for my Corvette and it was almost as good as a window sticker.  Hope this is close to what I got for the Vette.  Well worth the cost.
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 04:32:42 PM »

Stingr69
Could you post a picture of what you received?
Thanks, Joe
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 02:18:45 AM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 05:11:37 AM »

Would love to see what they produce for a Camaro.
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 09:48:13 AM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 12:24:02 PM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?

Me three, when it comes to the original dealership.  JohnZ reminds us that Chevrolet was in the business of selling cars.  Same thing is true for dealers.  Apparently, I have had much better luck researching car histories with DMVs. I'd suggest anyone trying to work with a DMV not start with "I'm trying to find the owner".  You need to send a letter on letterhead (look official) and stress words like restoration and documentation of the car.  If this service can give you the original dealer and you are the current owner with the VIN, you may get lucky.
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 12:29:38 PM »

Most DMV's have a form to fill out online.  I have done 2 different states with both having success and it gave me all the previous owners info as well (with the exception of TN only going back 2 previous owners).  Like Phillip said its all in how you present your case.  You may also have to get your request notarized  before sending it in.
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »

 I think this is great news and I will definitely spend the $50. I already know the dealership on two of my cars but it will just be one more piece of documentation to authenticate my cars in a fraudulent car world.
I have also had great success with the DMV title histories. Its a lot more possible than people think in a lot of states and yes how you word your request is important.
I also agree with an earlier post concerning some people that have what they think are the "original" POP's, window stickers and build sheets. Probably going to be some very unhappy folks when they get there report and will probably will cause some law suits and justifiably so.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 10:33:30 PM »

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date. This is great news and will provide many owners a trail to the dealer and previous owners and with some luck a pot of gold (documentation).
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2014, 12:06:52 AM »

A question for anybody who has had success getting info from a DMV,
 Whay kind of information did they have? Anything pertaining to the build of the car? Maybe the shippers form,or order form?

 The reason that I'm asking is I am trying to go this route to find the build info for a 67 that I have. On the first attempt,I got nowhere. (they did cash my check and say thanks for the payment,though Roll Eyes) I'll have to reword my request and make another attempt. I do know the selling dealer(from an old NCIB report),but they did not have any records back that far.
 Thanks guys, Andrew
 
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2014, 01:43:28 AM »

When I did my car back in the early 1990's, all you needed was the VIN or the lic. plate number. What I got was any paper work the State had on car. Previous owner's that registered the car in their names all the way back to original owner. From there I got the POP, pictures of the car, and his stories of back in the day with said car. Now day's it's not that easy. Let's here from the guys on this site that have been successful lately, getting this information. Details please. Cool
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2014, 04:48:33 AM »

What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2014, 06:10:02 AM »

DMV = Divison of Motor Vehicles
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2014, 12:23:40 PM »

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.

Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2014, 12:50:04 PM »



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.




Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
[/quote

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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2014, 03:45:23 PM »



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?

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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2014, 04:06:09 PM »

Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?
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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2014, 04:35:18 PM »

Guys you will get exactly what the above report shows. The Shipping Data Records do contain the wholesale invoice number, order number and indent number. these numbers are not released with this information and will not be provided from this information.  The reason for that will become obvious at some point, but we do know at this point that some plants, some years one or more of those three numbers may be located on your cowl tag, or window sticker, or wholesale invoice, or car shipper, or build sheet, or MSO, etc.  For that reason the numbers will not be released, they would only serve to assist the counterfeiters. Because of the way the three strings were created at original order conception they are unpredictable and unpublished but great tools for ferreting out in some cases bogus items such as build sheets, window stickers, cowl tags, MSO, etc. Wink

I should add for 68 Ragtop - one of these numbers may or may not appear on the cowl tag and it may or may not always be in the body number location, more research is needed before we make a flat statement such as your "BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same"
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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »

The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. This is my understanding but we will see. BTW I sent you a PM.  



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same.  

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?


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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2014, 04:44:23 PM »

 Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
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« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 05:08:34 PM »



My understanding NCRS will be providing the service as they do for the Corvette. GM & NCRS have some type of agreement and GM provided the access to the records.

Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
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« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 07:29:31 PM »

Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?

It's not mine, but I have seen several Corvette NCRS shipping reports and they all look like this.
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« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 07:35:30 PM »

The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. 

That would be fantastic. It always seems like the Corvette is GM's favorite so for Camaro owners to get a more detailed report would be quite an accomplishment.
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 11:08:57 PM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 11:20:14 PM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   Smiley

Paul
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2014, 12:40:58 AM »

so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.
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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2014, 01:01:25 AM »

So what i am reading from this form it will not tell you what options came on the car. I have my mso & dealer invoice with options that came on car. Did title search with tennessee dmv years ago before the privacy act & received all this from them also all previos owners names. So for me it would be waste off my money to order this form. Shame it is not the copy off the shipper invoice because it would cut down more on the want a be car & will help lot off people from scammed. But on the bright side it will help some people know were there car came from & build dates!
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2014, 08:49:20 AM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   Smiley

Paul

Paul, NCRS is a not for profit organization, they have non NCRS members join NCRS before they can receive the Corvette Data! Given that bit of information I think they are giving you a discount, if your a Camaro, Chevelle or Nova guy you don't have to join NCRS to get the data. So in effect it is a discount already, the price of this service is controlled by GM.

Seriously, I lobbied NCRS hard to get this stuff released for these Marques, when it became obvious we had it all in the records we found for the Corvette. NCRS had to determine if they could handle the process just for the Corvette, once we got that under control, we went back to GM and said OK let us do the same thing for the other cars.
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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2014, 08:51:20 AM »

so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.

Short answer No.
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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2014, 09:37:45 AM »

Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2014, 10:03:41 AM »

Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.

Charley,

I think once we get our feet on the ground with this service and begin too figure out exactly what we can and cant do with it there are all kinds of possibilities.  I personally appreciate your support in this. It was huge step for the NCRS board to approve this, they are after all a Corvette club and convincing them they owed it to the rest of the Hobbyist to provide the information it was no minor feat.
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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2014, 10:34:18 AM »

Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed
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« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »

Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed


Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  Smiley

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.
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« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2014, 11:19:17 AM »

Thanks for the explaination Roy. To boil it all down, it's a major PIA!!

And I can guarantee that MY Camaro will be on one of the missing microfiche pages!!

(By the way, you should also have a request for my 69 Corvette sitting on your desk!)

Ed
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« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 12:38:43 PM »

It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  Smiley

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.

Roy,

Now that you explained the process, $50.00 is a bargain!  Thanks for your & NCRS' hard work for making this service available for us Camaro lovers.  I can't wait to find out my car's birthday!

Paul
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« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2014, 02:22:04 PM »

With items like this being dusted off by GM, 40 to 50 years after the cars were produced, it makes me wonder what else GM has tucked away in their archives: shipping docs, more pertinent info for what cars got certain options. I can imagine a lot of documentation still being tucked away, that may be released slowly and periodically by GM at their discretion I suppose, or maybe as they run across it and come to the idea that there is a huge group of car owners waiting with baited breath for more docs to get released.
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« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2014, 02:31:32 PM »

What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
Anyone??
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« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2014, 02:33:54 PM »

Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed
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« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2014, 02:54:14 PM »

Hey Ed, I am glad this was bright to light. How did this information come about?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2014, 03:16:42 PM »

Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

Austin,
The records at GM have sifted thru and examined several times over the years. I believe this is as good as it will get....

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« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2014, 04:18:59 PM »

Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

You are welcome.
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« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 05:25:19 PM »

Thanks Roy.
I really appreciate this.
Hope my cars are listed in the files.
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« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2014, 07:07:04 PM »

Huge thank you to the NCRS team for taking this on and for Roy to communicate and to be part of that team. I'm an NCRS member and think the organization is first class.
Thanks Roy!
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« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2014, 08:11:17 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
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« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2014, 08:37:30 PM »

Thank you Roy! I'm in.
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« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2014, 08:50:10 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
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« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2014, 09:25:57 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
Thanks Roy, for your time explaining.  And yes, for process involved I believe it is good investment, particularly for those who have nothing.  Cudos also to NCRS.

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
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« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2014, 02:20:53 AM »

Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed

Thanx Ed! Smiley
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« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2014, 06:59:49 PM »

Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?
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« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2014, 07:39:17 PM »

Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
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« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2014, 07:50:52 PM »

...And I'd guess if one was exchanged to another dealer, it wouldn't be too far from the one that it was shipped to.
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« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »

Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
Thanks Kurt,
Sounds like there could be a few that will be left wondering if their POP or window sticker is authentic. Hopefully not but seems to be a real possibility.
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« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2014, 10:39:21 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
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« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2014, 11:33:22 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?
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1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, 3 owner car
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« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2014, 09:53:53 AM »

Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?

The factory filled out only the top portion of the POP, the other info was labled or written in by the selling dealer. Picture of POP found on Google. George
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« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2014, 01:52:59 PM »

I've seen detailed dealer notes for a dealer trade. They noted all the options / colors / costs and which dealer on the various cars they found available for the buyer. Looks like it took a bit of footwork and time on the phone.
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« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2014, 02:12:30 PM »

My great-uncle had a Chevy dealership back in the day. He was more than willing to find a car for you --as long as he thought it was going to result in a sale after the time and effort (phone calls, "trading" negotiations and getting the car).  On the whole the possible cars needed to be within a hundred miles of the dealership, and it often depended on whether he had something the other dealer wanted. As I recall the info on the car still had the original dealer info on it.  All my great-uncle wanted with his name on it was the purchase agreement. 
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« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2014, 10:00:49 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?

Yes, in fact I woiuld not expect to if it was a dealer trade, the selling dealer is supposed to complete it.
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« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2014, 02:41:23 PM »

Just to add something to the discussion and respond to the earlier requests....This is what I got when I sent in my money for information on my Corvette.  If we could only have THIS for our Camaros - OMG!



-Mark.
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« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2014, 03:42:34 PM »

wow..   that sure looks like more than a 'shipper'... and MUCH More than just the date/dealer...  IS that what you got from NCRS for your Corvette?   I've got a few older Corvettes I'd like to have that for as well.. 
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2014, 05:14:26 PM »

You can get that from GM, I ordered it for my 81 Z28 a couple of years ago. My understanding is that the records are only available from around 1977and newer for chevrolet. I pasted the link to the site below.


http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/GM_Vehicle_Invoices,_Build_Records_and_Vintage_Vehicle_Information_Availability


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« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2014, 05:37:21 PM »

Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972?HuhHuh

 Grin      Wink
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2014, 11:01:43 PM »

Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972?HuhHuh

 Grin      Wink

Gary - do you not consider a 180 hp 1985 Z/28 to be a passenger car ? Or are you suggesting the 1980 Citation was a sports car (drove both) ? I'm confused -

Just kidding, of course. I did think a lot of my 1976 Malibu Land Barge.

Back on the thread - I do think even the dealer ship to and completion date for two of my vehicles is worthwhile - especially when I don't have that bit of info. One more piece to the puzzle.

Regards -
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« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2014, 11:40:42 PM »

Do I have to answer that?  Smiley
I will buy their data for my car just to get a GM 'date' (whether it be production date or shipping date), it will be worthwhile.. Smiley
In fact, I will probably try to get the data for my older Corvettes as well (The '69 is the only one I have protecto plate for, and also have the build sheet from the tank).   
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69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2014, 01:00:02 PM »

Guys the date provided with this service is the official GM Production date, the date is contained in what we call the shipping data record's - but it is the official GM production date, it is not the date the car was shipped, unless of course they shipped it on the production date, I suspect that could happen but probably did not happen often.
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« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2014, 01:10:28 PM »

Roy, I appreciate all your efforts on behalf of Chevrolet enthusiasts.

I have a question. If a car is started on one day and finished on another, which day would be considered the official GM production date?
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« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2014, 01:16:16 PM »

The day it finished! Based on what we understand the production date is the day the car finished and was billed to the dealer.
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« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2014, 02:33:38 PM »

Great info. Thanks, Roy.
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« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2014, 03:12:05 PM »

Think of it as your car's birthday!    Smiley

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« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2014, 03:19:13 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2014, 03:33:08 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

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« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2014, 03:34:40 PM »

What would you consider close.... on my reply # 23 the camaro was transfered 366 miles from Burns, Oregon to Coquille, Oregon. ( Coos Bay Oregon )
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« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2014, 03:36:59 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

Paul

When the zone had finished checking and approving the order and delivered it to the plant for assembly.
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« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2014, 03:56:57 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

Paul

For me..  the *closest* to that feeling I can imagine.. is the time when you're sitting in the New Car Sales Manager's office, listing out the options and colors I want (Hugger Orange of course)..  and listening to the sales manager tell me..  it will likely be in within 2 or 3 weeks.. Smiley ...  we'll call you!  Smiley
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« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2014, 04:10:45 PM »

I thought like Gary when you place the order. But then I thought all you did was pay for the date. So then I got very philosophical and thought ok when does it become a car?Huh with the frame? the body the motor? when the metal is poured into the casting for the motor, or pressed into the body and tack welded ? Or is the rolling chassis like the egg and the motor is the "go" juice ?? So when they are mated together on the line you have conception.  Cheesy   . Obviously this can open further debate....
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« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2014, 04:18:29 PM »

LOL!   Cheesy

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« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2014, 08:40:28 PM »

Roy, another question for you please. If a car was a special GM executive purchased car for example, how would that show on the NCRS records?
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« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2014, 10:26:05 PM »

That would probably depend on what you define as special. A car ordered by an executive through the normal new car purchase program would most likely show up as a zone and dealer with the dealer name. Cars for some executives probably went through the zone offices in which case threy show up as the zone office orders. Some of Mr Earl's styling cars show up as GM shop orders. So there a multitude of answes depending on who and why.
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« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2014, 11:26:53 PM »

That makes sense. I can see where there could be many variations. This is all very interesting to me. Thank you for your response!
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« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2014, 08:52:38 PM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.
Ed, Thanks for posting this "long awaited" info on our first Generation Camaros.  I've waited for something like this to be available over the years.  A lot of the Camaro Guru's will jump on this come April.  I know I'll be signing up.  Thanks to all who made this happen!!  Don
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« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2014, 09:00:05 PM »

Thanks to Mr. Sinor,  the NCRS and GM as well as anyone involved with facilitating this  process.

We have paid substantially more than $50.00 in order to obtain just part of this info and did not get a nice certificate to go along with it.
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« Reply #106 on: February 08, 2014, 07:04:27 PM »

I just purchased a 1974 Z28 yes i know it's a second gen but I would like to know the history on this car. I do have two 69 Camaro's that will be checked also.
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« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2014, 08:01:34 PM »

22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.
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« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2014, 10:21:36 AM »

22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.

Actually, it's much more than that - from Roy Sinor's reply #57 in this thread on January 23rd:

"Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages."

This was NOT a low-budget project. :-)
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« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2014, 02:37:01 PM »

Yes exactly what I was saying... If it were isolated it was 30k plus pages for first gen camaros which alone is a monumental task... however as stated it is not isolated so the task becomes exponentially more complicated.
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« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2014, 03:42:28 PM »

Read elsewhere that this service has been delayed from mid-April until July - can anyone involved with NCRS confirm?
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« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2014, 03:56:23 PM »

I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
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« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2014, 03:39:15 AM »

I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
Thanks Roy - will be waiting in anticipation like a kid on Christmas Eve!
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« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2014, 07:31:39 AM »

Guys, This project is much more complicated for us than the Corvette roll out was. we were fortunate in dealing with Corvette it was a captive audience, read members only,  so we had all of the contact information and did not have to capture that data it in the order process. It was a simple matter of replying to a profile that was established in our database.

We do not have your addresses and contact information, so we had to create that bridge. 

The more serious issue is the number of production plant facilities that this service encompasses. In the Corvette world we dealt with one plant St. Louis, filtered out the different models that were not Corvette and were ready to go, its not near that simple here.

We have multiple plants, multiple models

We are making progress and while the roll out has been delayed it is going to occur, again the date has been moved to May 1, 2014
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« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2014, 09:48:08 AM »

thanks for the continued help in this endeavor!
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« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2014, 02:56:12 PM »

Is May 1st still a go or will there be another delay?
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« Reply #116 on: April 29, 2014, 03:38:12 PM »

 Smiley May 1st is the roll out, you guys be patient here this thing may be overwhelming initially and we may need some time to get caught up. If it flows like it has with the corvette we hope to work into a two to three week turnaround and as with the corvette if that happens and there is need for an expedited service we may expand the service to offer that, initially we just need to get our feet wet and see where it goes.  Wink
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« Reply #117 on: April 29, 2014, 07:33:14 PM »

Well luckily some of us have at least a shred of our dealer info already, and/or would like to see the results, or documentation that gets delivered back to some of the first who order it. So hopefully you aren't inundated from all of us at once.  Smiley

I look forward to some interesting discoveries, and hopefully mysteries solved.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2014, 05:50:15 AM »

Well, I just paid my $50 so fingers crossed!
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« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2014, 06:47:42 AM »

Well, I just paid my $50 so fingers crossed!

Ditto.  Its the waiting game now.
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« Reply #120 on: May 01, 2014, 07:46:07 AM »

X3 - effortless procedure on line. Anxiously await results - one more to do after the first gets back.
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« Reply #121 on: May 01, 2014, 07:56:38 AM »

guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.
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« Reply #122 on: May 01, 2014, 08:46:22 AM »

NCRS has my $50 already...     #136 at 8:40 am CDT...    Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #123 on: May 01, 2014, 08:54:56 AM »

guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Pretty sure everyone will be patient as we are very appreciative of the efforts of this service.  If they are not; they are ignorant and need not waste your time.
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« Reply #124 on: May 01, 2014, 09:03:27 AM »

This is a great service to our hobby.  Thanks Roy and a big THANK YOU to the NCRS!
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« Reply #125 on: May 01, 2014, 09:30:16 AM »

I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #126 on: May 01, 2014, 09:35:25 AM »

I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

The shipping data report will be a document very similar to that sown in post #40 of this thread.
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« Reply #127 on: May 01, 2014, 10:32:34 AM »

I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... Smiley

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorer’s Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   Smiley

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... Smiley
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69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
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« Reply #128 on: May 01, 2014, 11:46:01 AM »

I agree with above. Going to wait for the dust to clear first. Feel they might get overloaded with requests.



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« Reply #129 on: May 01, 2014, 01:27:04 PM »

I think your dead on Gary W. The plus side is it gives you guys a starting point. But most dealers are not around or the Docs have been thrown out years ago. That said it's worth trying...
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« Reply #130 on: May 01, 2014, 03:30:45 PM »

Im paid up too. I'll take any morsel of info on the car, it is amazingly appreciated, cant wait !
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« Reply #131 on: May 01, 2014, 03:44:25 PM »

guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Roy, would it help if we waited a month or so to order?

Paul
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« Reply #132 on: May 01, 2014, 05:07:18 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS
what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!
Did you read the disclaimer note on the email confirmation? Not to take anything away from this great service (I have already paid my $50, transaction #39) and it is the best chance many of us have to track down more history on our cars, but the accuracy of the dealer info you will get is entirely dependent on the dealer code database, which did not come from GM.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #133 on: May 01, 2014, 08:03:24 PM »

Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. Wink
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« Reply #134 on: May 01, 2014, 09:05:26 PM »

Does that mean if the hobbyists don't have your dealer in the database it will just be a number, on the report you get from them? Sorry just trying to understand the relationship of who has what information
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Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #135 on: May 01, 2014, 10:01:42 PM »

Does that mean if the hobbyists don't have your dealer in the database it will just be a number, on the report you get from them? Sorry just trying to understand the relationship of who has what information

It means that we use GM records not the online database. There will be an occasional deler number and zone we cant read because of missing or damaged microfiche.  There will be an occasional dealer name missing or that we cant read. We have found over 90% in our Corvette research. 
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« Reply #136 on: May 01, 2014, 10:56:58 PM »

thanks. so your saying if the original records for some reason got damaged, then the hobbyists may fill in the blanks on dealers. very good.
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Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #137 on: May 02, 2014, 03:37:14 AM »

Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?
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« Reply #138 on: May 02, 2014, 06:25:34 AM »

Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. Wink
Roy, I apologise unreservedly if I misunderstood the wording of the email confirmation note, and caused any offence in the process. I had understood it to mean that NCRS got the dealer code from the GM records, but that the decoding of that code into a dealer name and address came from the database that was compiled from owner-provided details. Having re-read the wording, I understand the intent, that the database is not maintained by NCRS but that we can assist in it's accuracy by providing the info that our report, based on contemporary GM data, provides.
Thank you for clarifying, and once again, sorry for my confusion. This is a great service that is very much appreciated.
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« Reply #139 on: May 02, 2014, 08:37:00 AM »

Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. Wink
Roy, I apologise unreservedly if I misunderstood the wording of the email confirmation note, and caused any offence in the process. I had understood it to mean that NCRS got the dealer code from the GM records, but that the decoding of that code into a dealer name and address came from the database that was compiled from owner-provided details. Having re-read the wording, I understand the intent, that the database is not maintained by NCRS but that we can assist in it's accuracy by providing the info that our report, based on contemporary GM data, provides.
Thank you for clarifying, and once again, sorry for my confusion. This is a great service that is very much appreciated.

No apologies necessary or required. I just want everyone to understand, the online database referred to in the email which is located on the NCRS web site, has nothing to do with this service. That database is hobbyist generated and the input is not verified prior to entry, you can take the data we give you and update the database if you wish. The Shipping Data Service provided by NCRS uses only GM records from GM and if holes exist in the GM records we do not use the database to fill the holes, simply because the holes are unconfirmed by GM and if or when we are able to confirm a missing dealer through our ongoing research one it will no longer be a hole in the GM records...
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« Reply #140 on: May 02, 2014, 08:46:11 AM »

guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Roy, would it help if we waited a month or so to order?

Paul

At this pint waiting wont get it any quicker there are many in queue we will process them as expediently as possible.  For the start up we are dedicating more time to the process than we will in several months, so the turnaround will be about the same.
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« Reply #141 on: May 02, 2014, 08:54:40 AM »

Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..
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« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2014, 07:23:03 AM »

From NCRS

We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.

NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.


So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing.
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« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2014, 07:31:02 AM »

Yeah, I just noticed that and was going to post it as well.
It doesn't affect me but I feel bad for those that it will affect.
That will pretty much exclude all of the pre X coded cars  Sad

https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/index.php
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« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2014, 08:57:11 AM »

Thanks Ed. I just filled out the form. It was very straight forward and  easy to process my request. !!!

TMR
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« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2014, 09:18:38 AM »

Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 
 
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
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« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2014, 10:00:22 AM »

Wow 78,420  "69" camaro's not listed!!! Cry
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« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2014, 10:30:52 AM »

Well just because it is missing doesn't mean it will be missing forever. Maybe in the future this data will turn up.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2014, 10:33:57 AM »

Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 
 


He mentioned previously that if no data was found on a vin that the money would be refunded.
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2014, 01:45:31 PM »

Roughly 78,000 in the same boat ? At least that's 3545 pages they won't have to look through.

Speaking of coincidence - amazing it's missing the non-X code dates for Camaros. I've got the dealer info and MSO for two of my four, the Pace Car is coded, but my original-block documented L78 is the one I was interested in finding out more about, since it's an early, non-X coded car. Shame -

Regards -
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« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2014, 05:08:14 PM »

Very disappointed, I fall in this range. I hope they come up with some. Maybe I will get lucky.
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« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2014, 09:02:52 PM »

Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   Grin  Thanks, Darrell
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« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2014, 09:37:46 PM »

Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 Yes, when the order is processed you will receive a refund. Because the data is missing does not mean it will not be found! You can assume that if we find it we will take the note regarding it being missing down, we are in the prices of having the firm that digitizes the data for us look for the missing information. Hopefully it was jugs a clerical error in conversion.
 

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« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2014, 09:40:07 PM »

Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   Grin  Thanks, Darrell

yes you wil receive an email confirming your docuemtn has been mailed, if a refund is issued you will receive an email conifmring that also.
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« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2014, 10:58:51 PM »

Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   Grin  Thanks, Darrell

yes you wil receive an email confirming your docuemtn has been mailed, if a refund is issued you will receive an email conifmring that also.

I hope mine makes it - if not, the second one I need is a March car - hopefully it's there. I'll wait the first one out and pray that it shows up -

Thanks for the update -
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« Reply #155 on: May 05, 2014, 05:37:56 PM »

From NCRS

We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.

NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.


So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing.

Ok, I gotta ask because I've been sitting here like many anticipating the launch.  When was it discovered that 78K cars were missing from the data?  Hard to envision missing that minor detail.  Would have been nice to have known about it on the forum sooner.  Really deflating at this point to say the least since my 69 RS xxxxx9N581767 is in the middle of that list of missing VIN's.

Richard
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« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2014, 05:44:33 PM »

Richard - since the data base is just a little over 7 million,  it is not quite as obvious as you might think. When we realized the hole existed and it was the size it is we posted it on line, don't know what else to tell you. this database is sorted by last six of the vin, so there are multiple units for each number the missing data is not obvious or we would have picked up on it sooner.
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« Reply #157 on: May 05, 2014, 05:49:00 PM »

Just got an e-mail saying that my shipping data report for my car has been mailed to me. Should have it in a day or two. Boy that was quick.
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« Reply #158 on: May 05, 2014, 05:52:36 PM »

Well I got a reply today from Roy stating one requested document was in the mail, and the other request will be refunded for missing documents.
That was pretty fast, hopfully the missing files will show up some day. Great work Chevymusclecardocs. I will post a copy it when it arrives. George
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« Reply #159 on: May 05, 2014, 06:45:01 PM »

Got my refund notice  Angry...story of my life.
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1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
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« Reply #160 on: May 05, 2014, 07:08:44 PM »

Got my confirmation that two of mine are in the mail. Thanks Roy and all those involved to make this happen.
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« Reply #161 on: May 05, 2014, 09:05:47 PM »

The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!
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« Reply #162 on: May 06, 2014, 04:11:27 AM »

Also got confirmation report is on it's way, very quick service; thanks Roy!
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2014, 07:33:30 AM »

My L78 is in the missing section but my Z is not so I have sent that one in. If any of the missing ones are found will we be notified?
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« Reply #164 on: May 06, 2014, 07:53:46 AM »

The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!

Not really, the microfiche does not just contain Camaro each sheet contains other models also, what is missing appears to be the original clerical input for the Norwood plant on 69 production. It is not missing microfiche pages, the data just is not on the microfiche.
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« Reply #165 on: May 06, 2014, 08:20:45 AM »

just received confirmation.
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« Reply #166 on: May 06, 2014, 08:43:13 AM »

The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!

Not really, the microfiche does not just contain Camaro each sheet contains other models also, what is missing appears to be the original clerical input for the Norwood plant on 69 production. It is not missing microfiche pages, the data just is not on the microfiche.

Thats right I forgot its all models, sorry..... Wow so it was never put on microfiche... GM doesnt want us knowing something lol or I guess the gal who was doing the archiving was on maternity leave during those months lol.
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« Reply #167 on: May 06, 2014, 09:05:39 AM »

Well, I paid by Paypal early the first day (#136) and I haven't heard anything as yet..   not sure what I'm hoping for here.. Smiley    I guess if they are doing them alphabetically (my last name begins with W)  Smiley, that's better than hearing they don't have my VIN on their records..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2014, 09:15:30 AM »

Well, I paid by Paypal early the first day (#136) and I haven't heard anything as yet..   not sure what I'm hoping for here.. Smiley    I guess if they are doing them alphabetically (my last name begins with W)  Smiley, that's better than hearing they don't have my VIN on their records..

we are doing them numerically so the batch with your order is in process, there are only two of us, we have processed the first 100 or so at this point.
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« Reply #169 on: May 06, 2014, 09:20:44 AM »

I'm not complaining Roy.. Smiley      you can tell we're all anxious to hear something.. Smiley   
( I guess I should go work on my Nomad and quit worrying about this.. and let you do your work...    Smiley  )   
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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« Reply #170 on: May 06, 2014, 09:36:10 AM »

Roy, Just out of curiosity how many request have you received so far?
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« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2014, 10:12:10 AM »

Roy, Just out of curiosity how many request have you received so far?

the current system has 540 orders received. Before those of you reading this panic, please realize there are a lot of aborted orders, the system is pretty easy to use but a lot of orders get aborted we do not reuse a number so an aborted order throws out that number, #539 in queue in the system has #703 issued for it that means 160 plus orders were aborted..
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« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2014, 05:58:55 PM »

Paid on the 4'th & my 68's # 622. I figured I would wait and see how this order turns out before doing the other 2 cars
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« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2014, 06:24:11 PM »

Paid May 3rd.  #537 here.  I'm curious as to where this info will lead too ?
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« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2014, 06:47:40 PM »

#693,this A.M.
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« Reply #175 on: May 06, 2014, 07:06:58 PM »

I was order number 55 and got an email yesterday stating that docs were mailed yesterday. So should get them tomorrow. This is for my Gold car, the Silver Convertible got aborted because of the early build date....bummer...Did not order the docs for the Silver Z..That car came with a ton of docs.

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« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2014, 10:36:00 AM »

Did mine yesterday # 686
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« Reply #177 on: May 08, 2014, 03:56:40 PM »

Did mine EARLY (wife gets home from work at 1: am) this morn., #801.
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« Reply #178 on: May 08, 2014, 04:12:46 PM »

Got it in the mail today.
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« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2014, 05:06:03 PM »

Can you post a pic of what you got ? Did you already know the original dealer?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2014, 05:48:25 PM »

I had no Idea what dealer it came from. Turns out I drive by the dealer (Hatch Chevrolet in El Cajon, Ca.) (at least where it use to be. It's changed hands a few time) going to work every day. I'll try to scan it and post it. If you look at post #40 you will see a copy of what the letter looks like. Same info.
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« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2014, 06:09:47 PM »

I am # 319... Hoping to hear something soon.
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Fred - Milwaukee, WI
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« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2014, 07:23:27 PM »

I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
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« Reply #183 on: May 08, 2014, 08:38:20 PM »

I got one of my shipping data reports today for a 1969 Yenko I used to own. Since I no longer own it I blocked out part of the Vin. I was really hoping to get info on my current 69 but it is one of the lost Vin's. Maybe someday they will find the records. Just thought you guys would like to see it. George.
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« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2014, 08:42:25 PM »

Very Cool. thanks for posting it.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #185 on: May 08, 2014, 08:59:47 PM »

I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (Huh).
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
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69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
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« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2014, 09:18:20 PM »

I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (Huh).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.
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« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2014, 09:19:49 PM »

Received confirmation May 1 on dealer info on my 1969 Camaro.  Number 142.  Received e-mail today May 8 that document is in the mail....Yes!!
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« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2014, 10:20:16 PM »

and I did as well..  Smiley     #136.. Maybe in a few days we'll have the $50 letter.. Smiley
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69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #189 on: May 09, 2014, 06:09:17 AM »

I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (Huh).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.

Do you think there are additional records someplace in the navy or GM Hawaii that I can investigate?
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rsinor
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« Reply #190 on: May 09, 2014, 08:20:45 AM »

I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (Huh).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.

Do you think there are additional records someplace in the navy or GM Hawaii that I can investigate?

Don't have a clue where you should start, personally I have had good success with Bill Gould his service is AutoAncestry.com 
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« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2014, 09:18:59 AM »

and I did as well..  Smiley     #136.. Maybe in a few days we'll have the $50 letter.. Smiley
I wish these documents or letter, contained more than dealer info.  Build sheet info or window sticker info would have been "super".
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« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2014, 09:26:53 AM »

I don't think it is for a lack of trying,  Smiley
 I just don't think it has been discovered, or that kind of pertinent info got tossed at one point.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
VINCE Z28
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« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2014, 10:22:57 AM »

Hey guys instead of waiting for old dealer items to pop up why not post wanted ads on CL right before a swap meet,or a web site for a year or so... you never know a former dealers kids or grand kids may be setting on the stuff you guys want.
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« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2014, 11:41:07 AM »

#1 owner of mine ordered while in Vietnam ,picked it up stateside at a Michigan dealer. ( not imagined conversation...) In owner's manual ,stamped under the POP is referance to overseas distribution. Curious to see how the Cert. comes out.

Car's coming back from paint next week. Going to give #1 a call and get him out to the house for some pics and a little more history.
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« Reply #195 on: May 09, 2014, 12:14:44 PM »

I have order no. 511

The car is now in Finland (Europe). I know the history in Finland and I am the third owner here. I also know one owner in the U.S. California (date issued 04/26/84).
When I have more information of my "world tour" car, it can be a fun to show it in Google Maps  Wink












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« Reply #196 on: May 09, 2014, 12:26:46 PM »

Oooohhh, Aaahhh, Nice, nice, nice!! ...did I say that your car is nice? Real NICE!
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1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
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« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2014, 01:19:38 PM »

Hey guys instead of waiting for old dealer items to pop up why not post wanted ads on CL right before a swap meet,or a web site for a year or so... you never know a former dealers kids or grand kids may be setting on the stuff you guys want.

lol, only problem is all the spammers and trolls. I have tried it, all I got were responses like " I have what you want, contact me and lets get together"

Let me tell you something ...they do not have what you want.

gives a whole new meaning to: "try it you may get lucky"  Cheesy
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« Reply #198 on: May 10, 2014, 09:20:20 PM »

I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... Smiley

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorer’s Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   Smiley

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... Smiley

WELL, my report came in today (#136 submitted).   

I'm not a happy camper;  I'm less knowledgable now than I thought I was before.. I missed the production date by a day (I predicted 17Sept, but it actually was the 18th.. (Not a big surprise to me, as I always knew it was one of those days.. borderline situation)...  But the real surprise I received was..   Zone 21  Dealer 73 ...   UNKNOWN....   Sad

So apparently having the Joe V Clayton plaques and tag bracket did NOT indicate the original dealer it was shipped to?  Clayton Chevrolet is Dealer 73 in Zone 8 (per the database info).

Was this car a dealer Transfer?  OR is the zone information WRONG in the records, since the dealer number of 73 is the dealer number for Clayton Chevrolet.   What does  ZONE mean?   Did it ever change for a particular dealer?  Any information or guesses appreciated.. Smiley
 
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« Reply #199 on: May 10, 2014, 10:22:00 PM »

I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... Smiley

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorer’s Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   Smiley

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... Smiley

WELL, my report came in today (#136 submitted).  

I'm not a happy camper;  I'm less knowledgable now than I thought I was before.. I missed the production date by a day (I predicted 17Sept, but it actually was the 18th.. (Not a big surprise to me, as I always knew it was one of those days.. borderline situation)...  But the real surprise I received was..   Zone 21  Dealer 73 ...   UNKNOWN....   Sad

So apparently having the Joe V Clayton plaques and tag bracket did NOT indicate the original dealer it was shipped to?  Clayton Chevrolet is Dealer 73 in Zone 8 (per the database info).

Was this car a dealer Transfer?  OR is the zone information WRONG in the records, since the dealer number of 73 is the dealer number for Clayton Chevrolet.   What does  ZONE mean?   Did it ever change for a particular dealer?  Any information or guesses appreciated.. Smiley
  


Yes, in fact in 1969 zone 11 dealer 372 was Max Myers Motors in Middlebury, IN and it appears to change to McManus Chevrolet in Chicago , Il in 1970.This is the info on my 69 Indy Pace Car.


Below is the explanation of why they change. I believe the zone is basically a territory, and territories changed as well.

From NCRS database page:

General Motors assigned zone and dealer numbers to active dealers at the time of assignment.  As dealerships changed ownership and went out of business the dealer number may be re-assigned to other new dealerships.  For this reason dates are included with this information where known.
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« Reply #200 on: May 10, 2014, 10:28:09 PM »

Thanks Steve..  for a little more enlightenment.   Joe V Clayton Chevrolet originated in 1968 per some info I have, so that could have been with the '69 model year...  being a first year dealership, perhaps that has something to do with this.   I plan to check with my friend who works there and have him ask around to if they know if/when the zone might have changed...
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« Reply #201 on: May 10, 2014, 10:30:39 PM »

ok that sounds logical. So is there a good list that accounts for the changes and dates for guys like Gary (really there is no one like Gary)..   Wink
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« Reply #202 on: May 12, 2014, 08:24:52 PM »

A huge Thank You to Roy and the NCRS for this service and for everyone who has posted information. A special thanks Roy for the time you have spent on this forum providing us with more information and clarification.

I am sure there are going to be a ton of questions about the information provided in these reports, especially matching up the dealer code/zone to the name and locations given. When there is a discrepancy or something odd what is the best way to get clarification from the NCRS? I was 99% sure what the report would list as the dealer name and location. Turns out the code and zone match what I thought and what others seem to have but the dealer name and location on my report does not.
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« Reply #203 on: May 12, 2014, 08:31:38 PM »

Anyone with an MSO on their car receive their confirmation yet ? I'm interested to see the space between the two, if there is one(always heard the MSO was cut on the same day the car was finished).

Regards -
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« Reply #204 on: May 12, 2014, 10:21:23 PM »

I have MSOs on both of my Camaros. I can let you know the results when I rece1ve mine. I ordered them on Friday or Saturday at the same time...Joe
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« Reply #205 on: May 13, 2014, 02:11:26 PM »

At least they are coming in. I think we we all learn something new.
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« Reply #206 on: May 13, 2014, 02:20:45 PM »

After reading Gary's post I'm curious to see what mine says, since I know the original dealer (or at least I think I do) by the original new car warranty sticker which is still on the back of my rear view mirror. We'll see if the report matches up.
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« Reply #207 on: May 13, 2014, 03:53:50 PM »

My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~(
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« Reply #208 on: May 13, 2014, 06:55:52 PM »

Stingr69 posted:
"Insert Quote
My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~("

Maybe if we put all out information together, we can figure out some of these..

1) Did you have some *idea* of where the car may have been sold originally?
2) What Zone # and Dealer # was reported to you (and based on what date?)..

My car was shipped on 18Sep1969, Zone#21 Dealer#73 reported.   I *thought* my car was sold originally at Joe Clayton Chevrolet, in Arab AL, and the current Dealer number is the same #73, but the current Zone # is 8.   I talked to my friend who works there today; he told me the last 'old employee' from that period has alzheimers, but he told me the original Zone number (from 1968 time frame) was #31 (he thought).  I'm hoping he didn't recollect this exactly and that it was 21 instead.. Smiley

Gary
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #209 on: May 13, 2014, 08:09:49 PM »

Stingr69 posted:
"Insert Quote
My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~("

Maybe if we put all out information together, we can figure out some of these..

1) Did you have some *idea* of where the car may have been sold originally?
2) What Zone # and Dealer # was reported to you (and based on what date?)..

My car was shipped on 18Sep1969, Zone#21 Dealer#73 reported.   I *thought* my car was sold originally at Joe Clayton Chevrolet, in Arab AL, and the current Dealer number is the same #73, but the current Zone # is 8.   I talked to my friend who works there today; he told me the last 'old employee' from that period has alzheimers, but he told me the original Zone number (from 1968 time frame) was #31 (he thought).  I'm hoping he didn't recollect this exactly and that it was 21 instead.. Smiley

Gary


Gary, I've been working on it from my end. the zone is #31 the dealer is #73, we still do not know the name of the dealer we think it could start with a c. The microfiche is damaged and very hard to read what we originally thought was 21 we know are sure is 31.  The dealer directory does not have the dealer name for #73.  Can yo get anything prodcued from GM that shows 31-073 is Joe Clayton Chevrolet? If you could we can take it to GM and have them update their directory.  I'm also struggling with zone 31 I think it is WV, TN area.
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« Reply #210 on: May 13, 2014, 11:05:24 PM »

Roy,

The employee at Joe Clayton Chevrolet whom I talked to today (a long time friend) is the parts manager there.   When I explained the difference between what NCRS data had for Joe V Clayton (Zone 8/ Dealer 73)..  He said yes that is correct.    When I told him what GM records had for my car on date 18Sept69, he said he thought the old zone number was '31'...  (I was hoping he'd confused 31 and 21), but maybe it really was 31.    He mentioned 'the previous dealer' as Royal Chevrolet (I think).  I will get back with him and probably drive down there and see what they might have in terms of written documentation for the old Zone number... and will report back.

Note:  Joe Clayton Chevrolet originated in cy 1968 (could have been with the '69 model year.   Before that, the area was possibly covered by Royal Chevrolet (based in Huntsville, AL).  Back then, Clayton Chevrolet had the reputation all across north Alabama and southern Tennessee as being the area's 'high performance' headquarters where lots of people bought their muscle cars...

Gary
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #211 on: May 13, 2014, 11:08:35 PM »

maybe it would jog his memory and may mean more if you "drove" your Z down there?Huh

(How is it coming with the actual Z car ?)

(Or the nomad??)

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« Reply #212 on: May 13, 2014, 11:12:32 PM »

maybe it would jog his memory and may mean more if you "drove" your Z down there?Huh

(How is it coming with the actual Z car ?)
(Or the nomad??)

Yes, it would be good for other reasons if I could *drive* my Z28 down there.. Smiley, but unfortunately the front clip is still apart.  The

There are no current employees there who worked there in '69.   The closest possibility would be the current owner of the dealership (son of Joe Clayton) who now operated the dealership, but who was probably a tyke at the time.. Smiley
Are you suggesting that even as a small tyke, he would probably recall everything about such a beautiful HO Camaro?? Smiley

Nomad body is back on the rolling chassis, all bolted down good and snugly (that was last week's task).  Body work is going slow except for what I do, as the fella I hired to help me is occupied elsewhere right now (except for a few hours a week)..


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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #213 on: May 13, 2014, 11:18:03 PM »

I was suggesting driving a big orange look at me car down there might garner a bit more attention, and if they knew it might have sold from their dealership might be a neat story, that the son may reach out to a few guys to try to figure it out. If he was smart could try to drum up some publicity out of it as well, so a win win situation. At least that is how I might sell it....
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #214 on: May 13, 2014, 11:21:41 PM »

i don't disagree with that approach, Bullitt....  Smiley   but see point 1..  no front clip on car..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #215 on: May 13, 2014, 11:24:36 PM »

I gotcha, well maybe when ya get the nomad done. Just trying to think of ways to get them working for you.
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« Reply #216 on: May 14, 2014, 06:39:46 AM »

Or you could just give me the Nomad that way you could jump right on the Camaro.
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« Reply #217 on: May 14, 2014, 08:16:29 AM »

Letter arrived in mail today - car was originally delivered to Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA. Very cool to finally get confirmation, thanks Roy and NCRS!
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« Reply #218 on: May 14, 2014, 08:36:27 AM »

Or you could just give me the Nomad that way you could jump right on the Camaro.

Thats kinda how I acquired my 55 Bel Air! (my friend had too many projects at that time).
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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« Reply #219 on: May 14, 2014, 08:44:39 AM »

Close, but no cigar...  I fall 962 outside the top range at 588237, Late January, and got the bad news this morning about a refund.  So add another Camaro to the upper end of this.  "  1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275  "   Man I'm bummed.  Just when you think you're safe. Smiley  
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« Reply #220 on: May 14, 2014, 09:50:35 AM »

I have a couple shipping documents from Scuncio Cheverolet in Greenville RI. They show a dealer code of 32613 Zone 32. Is the dealer code the same as the dealer number? Have not got my paperwork yet but hoping this is what it says.
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« Reply #221 on: May 14, 2014, 10:03:39 AM »

After reading Gary's post I'm curious to see what mine says, since I know the original dealer (or at least I think I do) by the original new car warranty sticker which is still on the back of my rear view mirror. We'll see if the report matches up.

Oops! Looks like I'm outta  luck. One of the missing ones 516355
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« Reply #222 on: May 14, 2014, 10:43:34 AM »

Roy,

The employee at Joe Clayton Chevrolet whom I talked to today (a long time friend) is the parts manager there.   When I explained the difference between what NCRS data had for Joe V Clayton (Zone 8/ Dealer 73)..  He said yes that is correct.    When I told him what GM records had for my car on date 18Sept69, he said he thought the old zone number was '31'...  (I was hoping he'd confused 31 and 21), but maybe it really was 31.    He mentioned 'the previous dealer' as Royal Chevrolet (I think).  I will get back with him and probably drive down there and see what they might have in terms of written documentation for the old Zone number... and will report back.

Note:  Joe Clayton Chevrolet originated in cy 1968 (could have been with the '69 model year.   Before that, the area was possibly covered by Royal Chevrolet (based in Huntsville, AL).  Back then, Clayton Chevrolet had the reputation all across north Alabama and southern Tennessee as being the area's 'high performance' headquarters where lots of people bought their muscle cars...

Gary

Gary, I'm going to hold off on your new report until we see if something shows up for 31-073 that shows Joe V Clayton on it, without that I'm left with "Based on limited information for the time frame Dealer name believed to begin with a  C and is located in AL, FL or TN".  You are so close to finding something we can give GM I would like to set on it a few days and see what happens.
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« Reply #223 on: May 14, 2014, 11:32:49 AM »

Roy,

Please 'sit on it' as long as you can as long as there's a possibility of getting more firm information.  The update you could provide today would not greatly increase what I already have (except for correcting the Zone# from 21 to 31).

I'm trying to get in touch with my friend there, who had told me yesterday that the original zone number was 31, in order to find out if he has documentation (of any kind?), or how he knew that zone number (since it changed to zone 8 a long while ago)..  He was out when I called so I left a message.  

The current owner of the dealership (Bryan Clayton) is the son of the original owner (Joe V Clayton), but the son is only 53 now, ( a youngster) who was only around 8 yrs old in 1969... but I will inquire with him as well... Smiley

Gary
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« Reply #224 on: May 14, 2014, 02:04:19 PM »

I have a couple shipping documents from Scuncio Cheverolet in Greenville RI. They show a dealer code of 32613 Zone 32. Is the dealer code the same as the dealer number? Have not got my paperwork yet but hoping this is what it says.

32-613 is Scuncio Chevrolet, Wakefield - Peacedale, RI according to the GM record
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« Reply #225 on: May 14, 2014, 03:52:41 PM »

Roy,

Please 'sit on it' as long as you can as long as there's a possibility of getting more firm information.  The update you could provide today would not greatly increase what I already have (except for correcting the Zone# from 21 to 31).

I'm trying to get in touch with my friend there, who had told me yesterday that the original zone number was 31, in order to find out if he has documentation (of any kind?), or how he knew that zone number (since it changed to zone 8 a long while ago)..  He was out when I called so I left a message.  

The current owner of the dealership (Bryan Clayton) is the son of the original owner (Joe V Clayton), but the son is only 53 now, ( a youngster) who was only around 8 yrs old in 1969... but I will inquire with him as well... Smiley

Gary

I got a call back from my friend, parts mgr at Clayton Chevrolet, and we were able to speak for quite a while.   He's been a parts man for 4-5 Chevrolet dealerships over almost 40 years in Huntsville,Albertville, and Arab Alabama, and he explained what he could about 'Zone Numbers'.  
1) The Zone number references the primary warehouse that supplies the dealership with parts (among possibly other things).  ie.   typically the entire number code is:    '5' (for Chevrolet), 'Zone number' (for the warehouse supplier), 'dealer number'.   so 5-08-73 as an example (currently for Clayton Chevrolet).
2)  GM/Chevrolet shifts their warehouse locations around at times; fairly recently the warehouse for Clayton shifted from Atlanta (zone Cool to someplace in Mississippi (Zone ?).  Ft Worth is now zone 41; Memphis is zone 92, etc.
3)  Apparently the zone number/dealer number which is set up for a new dealership (or owner?) remains the same, even if the warehouse (and it's zone number shifts locations).  
4)  Apparently the only time GM reassigns the Zone#/Dealer# for a dealer is when it is new or when the dealership changes hands.

All this makes it VERY CONFUSING when we're trying to reconstruct the old zone/dealer numbers after 45 yrs, and many many GM warehouse moves, and dealership changes.   Just the dealership here in Huntsville has had six different names through the years ... Hill 1967 (5-31-255), Royal 1969-72 (5-31-340), Larry Savage 1982 (5-31-436, Landmark 1987-88 (5-08-304), Bill Heard (5-08-302/304), and Landers-McLarty 2009 (5-1-145)...
Given all that,  my friend (Clay Smith) knew that the Royal Chevrolet dealership in Huntsville, AL was ZONE 31 in the late '60's and '70's.  That dealership changed hands from Hill Chevrolet (5-31-255) to Royal Chevrolet in 1967 (5-31-340).   Clayton Chevrolet 1987-2002 (5-08-73) took over for Richard Kelley Chevrolet 1967 (5-31-???).  Richard Kelley was an uncle to Clayton, so I have no idea exactly how/when the ownership actually changed.

Note that NCRS database shows Richard Kelley Chevrolet as being zone 31 (which was the Birmingham, AL warehouse at that time), but Clayton Chevrolet has since 1987 been 5-08-73).

I found a posting on Chevelles.com, posted by an old friend of mine from York, PA .. Stan Falenski (a diehard Chevy musclecar guy who has owned some fantastic Chevy muscle cars)...  he posted a long list of 'Zone numbers'...
Post #12 from:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43413
 
which included the following zone numbers, confirming what Clay just told me...
08 - Atlanta (GA)
31 - Birmingham (AL)

Stan also posted a lot of dealer/zone numbers with dealer names/locations at that same link (a later post).. so you guys should check that one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on the Birmingham warehouse being #31 in the late sixties, and on the other information I have, I am coming to the conclusion that in the '69 timeframe, Clayton Chevrolet WAS assigned Zone 31 (Birmingham) and Dealer 73, and only sometime between then and 1987 did their zone change to 08 (Atlanta).  I believe that the warehouses serving the north Alabama region (including Huntsville and Arab) changed from Birmingham (31) to Atlanta (08) sometime between 1982 and 1987 based on the evidence that exists...

What do you think Roy??  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #226 on: May 14, 2014, 04:27:24 PM »


What do you think Roy??  Smiley


I think that zone 31 dealer 073 is the dealer that was invoiced by Chevrolet for Gary's car. I do think Stan is a great guy, I was fortunate enough to be able to use him as a national team leader while I was the national judging chairman for NCRS.
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« Reply #227 on: May 14, 2014, 05:42:39 PM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.
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rsinor
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« Reply #228 on: May 14, 2014, 10:50:00 PM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.
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« Reply #229 on: May 15, 2014, 10:29:22 AM »

The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

This is fantastic news...so glad to hear this, as I'm missing.  Thanks Roy. 
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69 Z/28, 01C,  X77, 711, 72 BPNT.   Hugger Orange, Black Vinyl Top
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« Reply #230 on: May 15, 2014, 01:39:02 PM »

Just received an email documents in the mail order #'s 256,257,258.
One is a 67 camaro Norwood and the other 2 are Los 67 camaros.


Tony
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67 rs/ss L48 w/headrest org.37k
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« Reply #231 on: May 15, 2014, 01:44:30 PM »

Good luck.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #232 on: May 15, 2014, 05:48:04 PM »

I got an email today that my document is on the way.... Smiley
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« Reply #233 on: May 15, 2014, 08:21:56 PM »


What do you think Roy??  Smiley


I think that zone 31 dealer 073 is the dealer that was invoiced by Chevrolet for Gary's car. I do think Stan is a great guy, I was fortunate enough to be able to use him as a national team leader while I was the national judging chairman for NCRS.

Yes Sir Roy, Stan is a both a good person and has a lot of knowledge. He lives fairly close and we have been to each others garage and shared information and assistance. And thanks to the NCRS team and you Roy for getting this huge data base sharing accomplished. Today I received my letter stating "Your Chevy Muscle Docs Shipping Data Report, order number 554" has been mailed.
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« Reply #234 on: May 15, 2014, 08:53:17 PM »

Got my e-mail today, documents sent # 455   Grin
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« Reply #235 on: May 15, 2014, 09:12:07 PM »

Thanks for the response, Roy. This is good insight into the sorting and locating process. I'll stay tuned
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« Reply #236 on: May 16, 2014, 06:10:05 AM »

have a question on the missing vins 1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275

Did GM Heritage check with the NICB to see if they have the shipping/dealer info on these missing vins?

I would think they can ask to borrow the NICB microfiche, have it digitized, then return it.

If the equipment is already set up to scan the old GM Heritage microfiche, they can scan the NICB microfiche to add to the data base.

GM gave the info to NICB back in the day so should be able to have access to it.
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« Reply #237 on: May 16, 2014, 06:42:37 AM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

I was one of the missing , got the denial. Roy Thank you for this! Following up should anything come up on our vins is great! Keep the $50! I will hold out hope that more will turn up as time goes on.
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« Reply #238 on: May 16, 2014, 07:49:56 AM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -
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« Reply #239 on: May 16, 2014, 08:30:43 AM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -

We will get caught up on the service and when that happens the turnaround time should not be to painful. It's truly a shame this large batch of early 69 Camaro's is missing. we have confirmed the same information is missing from the NICB file as well. In the Corvette world we did a similar thing keeping track of the VIN's we missed in the initial roll out, we were able to go back and respond to better than 20% of those we initially missed.  Hopefully we will have similar success in this project.  It is a lot more complicated in this project, 10 plus plants all using the same last 6 digits, different body styles, etc. the sort routines are confusing and sometimes less than desirable.  We had one plant, two bodies, no duplicate last six on the Corvette project. By the way this sites spell check does not like Camaro - thinks it should be Camry - go figure!
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« Reply #240 on: May 17, 2014, 09:03:58 PM »

Here is a listing of the zone office locations as of 1969, from GM documentation:
1   Flint MI
2   Tarrytown   NY
3   St. Louis MO
4   Minneapolis MN
5   Kansas City MO
6   Oakland CA
7   Dallas TX
8   Atlanta GA
9   Cincinnati OH
10   Denver CO
11   Chicago IL
12   Buffalo NY
13   Pittsburgh   PA
14   Baltimore MD
15   Philadelphia PA
16   Charlotte NC
17   Memphis TN
18   Des Moines IA
19   Portland, OR
20   Los Angeles CA
21   export   
22   Louisville KY
23   Oklahoma City OK
24   New Orleans LA
25   Indianapolis IN
26   Jacksonville FL
27   New York   NY
28   Cleveland   OH
29   Omaha NE
30   Houston TX
31   Birmingham AL
32   Boston MA
33   Fargo ND
34   San Diego   CA
35   Newark NJ
36   Salt Lake UT
37   Richmond   VA
39   El Paso TX
40   Charleston   WV
41   Wichita KS
42   Seattle WA
43   Portland, ME
44   Detroit MI
45   South Bend IN
46   Green Bay   WI
47   Peoria IL
48   Syracuse NY
49   Harrisburg   PA
61   Milwaukee   WI

These are from various Canadian sources - not a definitive as the above list, but I believe they are correct.
80   Oshawa   ON
81   Vancouver   BC
82   Calgary   Alberta
83   Regina   SK
84   Winnipeg   MB
85   London   ON
86   Montreal   Quebec
87   Moncton   NB
88   Ste. Foy   QC
95   Toronto   ON
96   Ottawa   ON
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:42:27 PM by KurtS » Logged

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« Reply #241 on: May 17, 2014, 09:31:58 PM »

Got my paperwork today on my  67 L-35 . The original dealer was Gibson Chevrolet Co Inc, Leadville, CO.  It was sold at Central Chevrolet Co, Grand Junction, CO, per my POP.
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« Reply #242 on: May 17, 2014, 11:58:33 PM »

Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -

We will get caught up on the service and when that happens the turnaround time should not be to painful. It's truly a shame this large batch of early 69 Camaro's is missing. we have confirmed the same information is missing from the NICB file as well. In the Corvette world we did a similar thing keeping track of the VIN's we missed in the initial roll out, we were able to go back and respond to better than 20% of those we initially missed.  Hopefully we will have similar success in this project.  It is a lot more complicated in this project, 10 plus plants all using the same last 6 digits, different body styles, etc. the sort routines are confusing and sometimes less than desirable.  We had one plant, two bodies, no duplicate last six on the Corvette project. By the way this sites spell check does not like Camaro - thinks it should be Camry - go figure!

That's funny..  Camry!    that's exactly the way my dad pronounced it when they first came out.. I tried to correct him, to no avail.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #243 on: May 18, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »

Those will be the zone offices, many zones included multiple states.
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« Reply #244 on: May 18, 2014, 05:13:35 PM »

Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing. 

I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.

 
TMR..
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« Reply #245 on: May 18, 2014, 09:31:54 PM »

Yes, I should have clarified. Every zone had a zone office and that was the location. That should match with the NCRS doc.
E.g. Alabama is zone 31.
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« Reply #246 on: May 18, 2014, 10:03:23 PM »

Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing.
I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.
 
TMR..
X2,, I would also like to thank Risnor and his team, what a great service.  I applied for my car #801, haven't heard yet whether it's good.  Regardless, THANKS!
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« Reply #247 on: May 19, 2014, 07:54:32 AM »

Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing. 

I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.

 
TMR..

Statistics as of 5/18 we have processed 446 vehicles. 282 Camaro, 132 Chevelle and 32 Nova.  I'm not going to spend much time on these statistics because it just means at this point anyway I'm not processing reports.

Thank You all for the kind words, it is information the hobbyist deserves to have and I am pleased to be a part of it.
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« Reply #248 on: May 19, 2014, 07:51:57 PM »

Just received my info back as well. Mohawk Chevrolet, Schenectady NY.  Great stuff, thx Roy!
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« Reply #249 on: May 21, 2014, 01:48:31 AM »

Got my three on Monday. Thank you Roy. If you are ever on Long Island, I owe you a beer! Or two!
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
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70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
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« Reply #250 on: May 21, 2014, 09:09:49 AM »

Got mine yesterday- - - Dealer Code 19, Zone 39, Broncho Chevrolet Co., Odessa, TX
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Fred - Milwaukee, WI
1969 Camaro SS350, M21, 12 Bolt, (01B LOS Build)
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« Reply #251 on: May 22, 2014, 12:38:45 PM »

Got my SDR today:

Dealer code 784 in zone 3.

Dealer name and location was:
Svanda-Meyer Chevrolet Inc.
Sparta, Illinois

Still exist but I need some nice merchandise from them, anybody?
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Regards

Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 355, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com
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« Reply #252 on: May 22, 2014, 01:02:55 PM »

Got mine today:

Production date 8/20/1969

Dealer code 127 in zone 20

Cormier Chevrolet Co
Long Beach, CA

Possibly this? http://www.winchevrolet.com/Win-History
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« Reply #253 on: May 22, 2014, 01:06:26 PM »

I have seen these on ebay a few times:
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #254 on: May 22, 2014, 01:23:23 PM »

I have seen these on ebay a few times:

Thanks, I saw those, but I bought this which was cheaper Smiley

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121343592270
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« Reply #255 on: May 22, 2014, 01:31:52 PM »

not as old, but a lot less money.   Smiley
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #256 on: May 24, 2014, 08:14:49 AM »

Got my SDR today:

Dealer code 784 in zone 3.

Dealer name and location was:
Svanda-Meyer Chevrolet Inc.
Sparta, Illinois

Still exist but I need some nice merchandise from them, anybody?
Nobody heard of that dealer??
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Regards

Hakan from Sweden
1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 355, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built
www.hakansmotorsida.com
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« Reply #257 on: May 24, 2014, 12:58:39 PM »

Ok I was curious which dealer my lowly 6 cyl. convertible came from.
I got this in the mail today.
Dealer code 0......oh well

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 01:35:32 PM by HOGDADDY » Logged
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« Reply #258 on: May 24, 2014, 01:15:48 PM »

Vellu,
 Yes , the same place. It became Winn just a few years ago, I have purchased a few cars from Cormier.
 Cormier was just over the channel from Lions drag strip, and also sponsered race cars. The Green Hawaiian Dana 427 car was purchased from that dealership  before being sent to Dana for the conversion. ( BTW The Dana dealership was just a few miles up the long Beach freeway from Lion's drag strip)
     VT
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« Reply #259 on: May 24, 2014, 03:29:02 PM »

Vellu,
 Yes , the same place. It became Winn just a few years ago, I have purchased a few cars from Cormier.
 Cormier was just over the channel from Lions drag strip, and also sponsered race cars. The Green Hawaiian Dana 427 car was purchased from that dealership  before being sent to Dana for the conversion. ( BTW The Dana dealership was just a few miles up the long Beach freeway from Lion's drag strip)
     VT

Thanks!

I contacted yesterday via Facebook to the dealer and here is the answer:

                  Hello Veli, Let me check with the records department.  Your restoration projects looks very cool.  I will be in touch next week.  Thanks

So, let's see if they have any information left from that period. Since I live in Finland (Europe) data collection is a bit tricky ..

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« Reply #260 on: May 24, 2014, 03:31:26 PM »

Got my NCRS dealer info today on all three of my cars. Everything matches perfect.
My 69 Z matches all the original owner history, DMV records, build date etc.  Wilkins Chevrolet, Norfolk Va.
My 66 SS Chevelle with POP, Gustafson Chevrolet, Eureka Ca.
The only one that I had no info on was my 67 SS Chevelle. Schoenfeldeh Chevrolet, Gregory, SD
Very pleased. Thank you Roy and the NCRS!
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1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
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« Reply #261 on: May 25, 2014, 07:33:09 AM »

Has anyone been able to compare the official production date to the MSO date yet?
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68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20
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« Reply #262 on: May 27, 2014, 11:00:52 AM »

How long are the reports taking these days?  Sorry, just exited.
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« Reply #263 on: May 27, 2014, 11:22:12 AM »

I believe the current files we are working on were submitted around 5/7, we should beat the 30 day turnarounds we committed to considerably but there is a NCRS regional next week and I have a vacation coming up in a few weeks so it may not be significantly quicker than 30 days.
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« Reply #264 on: May 27, 2014, 02:38:58 PM »

I believe the current files we are working on were submitted around 5/7, we should beat the 30 day turnarounds we committed to considerably but there is a NCRS regional next week and I have a vacation coming up in a few weeks so it may not be significantly quicker than 30 days.

Now, I'm gettin' a little more excited.  I put my order in very early on 5/8.  Just interesting to see if mine jibes with what I think the history might be.  AGAIN, I gotta send Kudos to Roy and his group.  Thank you.
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« Reply #265 on: May 27, 2014, 02:41:53 PM »

I just received my shipping report (#644) for my 69 Z28 and the original delivery dealer was:

Shea Chevrolet Co.
Hackensack NJ

Production date was on June 6, 1969 which corresponds with the 06a trim tag info. Does anybody know anything about this dealer?  I understand that in 2012 it filed for bankruptcy and was closed that year, but would still like to know if anybody has any history on it and if there are any records that are still around. I know it is a long shot but I had to ask!
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #266 on: May 27, 2014, 03:25:23 PM »

I just received mine today. My number was in the mid six hundreds. 08E 69 Z 124379N676XXX. Production 8-28-69. Delivered Dealer  613-32.
Scuncio Cheverolet , Greenville RI. Having owned this car since 2001 I was told and always believed it was ordered through Scuncio Hi Performance through their HI PERF department headed by Bob Johnson. The car  came with the emblem and the key fob and talk. Now thanks to the NCRS guys I have documentation that it did come from there. Now all I need is for you Rhode Island guys to remember a Fathom Green, black deluxe inside, with no console or gauges except tach and I might get there. Thanks Roy and $50.00 well spent. Ed James told me a long time ago he thought a T. Jenkins bought it new.
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69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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rsinor
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« Reply #267 on: May 27, 2014, 07:22:31 PM »

Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?
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TooManyReels
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« Reply #268 on: May 27, 2014, 07:32:11 PM »

I got my letter today, as well. The official production date of my car was 2/28/1969..Three days later than the block stamping...Thanks Roy for providing this information. I will now do a NC title search to see where it was first titled and sold within NC...

TMR
Eddie
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Eddie
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« Reply #269 on: May 27, 2014, 07:33:03 PM »

Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?

Yes...  http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

Paul
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DeanZ10
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« Reply #270 on: May 27, 2014, 10:12:48 PM »

So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #271 on: May 28, 2014, 07:17:55 AM »

Too Many Reels. Who was your dealer? In case I might know someone.
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69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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janobyte
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« Reply #272 on: May 28, 2014, 08:36:47 AM »

5/1/1968         Dealer code 1   zone 21       Overseas Distribution Division--Export

#1 owner ordered while in Vietnam ,came home and picked the car up in Michigan.

Giving him a call tomorrow to find out the dealership name , not much in NCRS under code 1  zone 21 , will be able to add to the data base.

I'm taking some time off next week ,getting him over here to have a few beers see if he has any old pics.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #273 on: May 28, 2014, 09:24:37 AM »

So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. Sad
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rsinor
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« Reply #274 on: May 28, 2014, 09:33:39 AM »

So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. Sad

Not necessarily guys, contact the current zone office, see who was the zone manager or his assistant try to contact one of them. Maybe you have Mr. Perkin's Camaro, or Mr. Campbell's Camaro, or the Camaro that went to the New York Worlds Fair, if you just quit you won't find out anything for sure.
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DeanZ10
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« Reply #275 on: May 28, 2014, 02:14:11 PM »

anyone have contact info for the Houston Zone Office? Roy, you mentioned two men, who are they? (just names as example or people who owned dealerships, worked in that Zone Office,  etc?)  I don't know what I don't know..lol Thanks

Called Knapp Chevrolet in Houston.
The guy there told me that cars sent to the Zone office was ordered by an employee to drive as a company car then sold to dealer. Zone offices closed in early 80's.
So least I know something. lol 
If you know someone in Houston that knows someone that knew someone back in the day and worked at the Zone office, please let me know.

Thanks
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TooManyReels
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« Reply #276 on: May 28, 2014, 04:20:39 PM »

The dealer was Evans Chevrolet Inc. Bluefield W Va..I check on the web and found nothing on them. So, I'm assuming they are out of business or has been sold..I was told by a couple of people that had previously owned the car that it was sold new in NC.   I went by the DMV today and picked up the form to do a complete title search to see where it was sold and to whom.

TMR...
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Eddie
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camaroman1969
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« Reply #277 on: May 28, 2014, 04:43:05 PM »

Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #278 on: May 28, 2014, 04:53:34 PM »

anyone have contact info for the Houston Zone Office? Roy, you mentioned two men, who are they? (just names as example or people who owned dealerships, worked in that Zone Office,  etc?)  I don't know what I don't know..lol Thanks

Called Knapp Chevrolet in Houston.
The guy there told me that cars sent to the Zone office was ordered by an employee to drive as a company car then sold to dealer. Zone offices closed in early 80's.
So least I know something. lol 
If you know someone in Houston that knows someone that knew someone back in the day and worked at the Zone office, please let me know.

Thanks

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091102/SEMA/911029996

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/general-motors-exec-jim-campbell-discusses-impact-of-chevrolet-success-with-jimmie-johnson-and-others-111913

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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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keech
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