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Author Topic: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?  (Read 5272 times)
Ed Bertrand
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« on: January 16, 2014, 02:53:11 PM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 03:05:57 PM »

Awesome! Thank's ED for that infomation, I will sure use it.
    Victor
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 03:21:20 PM »

I saw that this morning.  Good stuff.  Definitely will be taking advantage of this service once its available. 
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 07:08:12 PM »

Excellent!
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 07:34:05 PM »

Ignorant on this, assuming submit vin ? Pretty neat ,looking forward to giving it a try. #1 looked but retained no paperwork ( at first he thought he might have) Luckily POP was kept in the glove compartment--in the owner's manual. All these years.( In my safe now.)
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 07:47:02 PM »

Thanks Ed. Any additional info I can find about my car is always a big plus.   Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 07:53:27 PM »

Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 08:32:11 PM by VINCE Z28 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 08:36:38 PM »

It can give someone a shot of finding what state their car came from.  From there a possible title search can be done in hopes of finding original owner. Wink
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 09:16:56 PM »

Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
It's helped many NCRS members find info pertaining to their corvettes!
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 11:23:46 PM »

Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
Steve
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 11:29:10 PM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 11:33:46 PM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.
Thanks,

I don't think so - you're already way ahead of the curve (and a lot of us) with the P-O-P. Better documentation doesn't happen - You might consider putting that $50.00 fee on parts or supplies -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 12:27:03 AM »

Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 01:42:12 AM »

Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
Steve

Is this information actually coming from GM Heritage, or are they just allowing it to be released from a third party source such as National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB)?

AFAIK, this information has been known as recorded by NICB, but only accessible under special circumstances. It seems NCRS has arranged access for the common man. Great news.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 02:06:03 AM by 68 Ragtop » Logged
68 Ragtop
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 01:46:04 AM »

I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,


You have what you believe is the original POP. What if the records show an altogether different dealer than the one shown on your POP?

I am sure this will catch more than one person by surprise. Maybe not you, but for sure there are a lot of made up POP's out there with guestimated dealerships that are not going to match official records.
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68 Ragtop
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 01:51:31 AM »

Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.

I don't think you are going to get much out of Jerry for $50. Even if you purchase a full blown "certification" what you will get is Jerry's expert opinion on what the car is today. I would bet even Jerry would recommend this service, or provide it as part of his appraisal.
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68 Ragtop
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2014, 01:59:48 AM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.

This is great news Ed.  I will try it as soon as it is available. I have always suspected my car was sold locally and never ventured far from SoCal. It even has a California dealers license plate frame that may be original. If not, at least I will know what to look for in the future.

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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 04:21:31 PM »

I will cerntainly use it. Both my 69,s history stops in the 70,s. My Z is reportly a Scuncio High Performance car with some items to prove it but this would be the icing on the cake. My L78 is documented to the 70,s in PA. If that is where is was sold I know where to look harder.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 10:58:26 PM »

Ed thanks for the info, that is great news that I might be able to find history beyond 30 years ago. My history trail stops at a used car lost around 1983. George
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2014, 12:10:31 AM »

I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2014, 08:56:10 AM »

Anyone know if there was much dealer exchanging going on back then? Where the delivered to dealer may be different than the selling dealer?

Very exciting info! I already know where my 69 came from, Eaton Chevrolet in Washington, DC, but I'm excited to learn more about my 68.
I've known my 69 was ordered and sold by Eaton Chevy for about 10 years now but, other than the building still there, I haven't found ANY other info about the dealership...no history, no ads, no promos or name plates...No nothin.
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2014, 10:29:05 AM »

I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe

No. You already have the VIN, date produced, and dealer (on the MSO).
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2014, 10:51:35 AM »

John Z do you know of any state that allows us to do a title search on our 1st gen camaro's?
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2014, 11:19:46 AM »

Here is paper work from the Oregon DMV transfering a 69 camaro from one dealer to the other for a customer.
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2014, 10:45:31 PM »


Thanks Ed!  I think it will be $50 well spent in my case.
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 04:29:38 PM »

Smiley  I did it for my Corvette and it was almost as good as a window sticker.  Hope this is close to what I got for the Vette.  Well worth the cost.
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 04:32:42 PM »

Stingr69
Could you post a picture of what you received?
Thanks, Joe
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 02:18:45 AM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 05:11:37 AM »

Would love to see what they produce for a Camaro.
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 09:48:13 AM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 12:24:02 PM »

i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?

Me three, when it comes to the original dealership.  JohnZ reminds us that Chevrolet was in the business of selling cars.  Same thing is true for dealers.  Apparently, I have had much better luck researching car histories with DMVs. I'd suggest anyone trying to work with a DMV not start with "I'm trying to find the owner".  You need to send a letter on letterhead (look official) and stress words like restoration and documentation of the car.  If this service can give you the original dealer and you are the current owner with the VIN, you may get lucky.
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 12:29:38 PM »

Most DMV's have a form to fill out online.  I have done 2 different states with both having success and it gave me all the previous owners info as well (with the exception of TN only going back 2 previous owners).  Like Phillip said its all in how you present your case.  You may also have to get your request notarized  before sending it in.
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »

 I think this is great news and I will definitely spend the $50. I already know the dealership on two of my cars but it will just be one more piece of documentation to authenticate my cars in a fraudulent car world.
I have also had great success with the DMV title histories. Its a lot more possible than people think in a lot of states and yes how you word your request is important.
I also agree with an earlier post concerning some people that have what they think are the "original" POP's, window stickers and build sheets. Probably going to be some very unhappy folks when they get there report and will probably will cause some law suits and justifiably so.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 10:33:30 PM »

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date. This is great news and will provide many owners a trail to the dealer and previous owners and with some luck a pot of gold (documentation).
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2014, 12:06:52 AM »

A question for anybody who has had success getting info from a DMV,
 Whay kind of information did they have? Anything pertaining to the build of the car? Maybe the shippers form,or order form?

 The reason that I'm asking is I am trying to go this route to find the build info for a 67 that I have. On the first attempt,I got nowhere. (they did cash my check and say thanks for the payment,though Roll Eyes) I'll have to reword my request and make another attempt. I do know the selling dealer(from an old NCIB report),but they did not have any records back that far.
 Thanks guys, Andrew
 
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Andy
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2014, 01:43:28 AM »

When I did my car back in the early 1990's, all you needed was the VIN or the lic. plate number. What I got was any paper work the State had on car. Previous owner's that registered the car in their names all the way back to original owner. From there I got the POP, pictures of the car, and his stories of back in the day with said car. Now day's it's not that easy. Let's here from the guys on this site that have been successful lately, getting this information. Details please. Cool
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2014, 04:48:33 AM »

What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2014, 06:10:02 AM »

DMV = Divison of Motor Vehicles
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2014, 12:23:40 PM »

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.

Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2014, 12:50:04 PM »



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.




Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
[/quote

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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2014, 03:45:23 PM »



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?

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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2014, 04:06:09 PM »

Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?
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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2014, 04:35:18 PM »

Guys you will get exactly what the above report shows. The Shipping Data Records do contain the wholesale invoice number, order number and indent number. these numbers are not released with this information and will not be provided from this information.  The reason for that will become obvious at some point, but we do know at this point that some plants, some years one or more of those three numbers may be located on your cowl tag, or window sticker, or wholesale invoice, or car shipper, or build sheet, or MSO, etc.  For that reason the numbers will not be released, they would only serve to assist the counterfeiters. Because of the way the three strings were created at original order conception they are unpredictable and unpublished but great tools for ferreting out in some cases bogus items such as build sheets, window stickers, cowl tags, MSO, etc. Wink

I should add for 68 Ragtop - one of these numbers may or may not appear on the cowl tag and it may or may not always be in the body number location, more research is needed before we make a flat statement such as your "BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same"
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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »

The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. This is my understanding but we will see. BTW I sent you a PM.  



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same.  

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?


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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2014, 04:44:23 PM »

 Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
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« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 05:08:34 PM »



My understanding NCRS will be providing the service as they do for the Corvette. GM & NCRS have some type of agreement and GM provided the access to the records.

Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
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« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 07:29:31 PM »

Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?

It's not mine, but I have seen several Corvette NCRS shipping reports and they all look like this.
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« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 07:35:30 PM »

The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. 

That would be fantastic. It always seems like the Corvette is GM's favorite so for Camaro owners to get a more detailed report would be quite an accomplishment.
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 11:08:57 PM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 11:20:14 PM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   Smiley

Paul
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2014, 12:40:58 AM »

so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.
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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2014, 01:01:25 AM »

So what i am reading from this form it will not tell you what options came on the car. I have my mso & dealer invoice with options that came on car. Did title search with tennessee dmv years ago before the privacy act & received all this from them also all previos owners names. So for me it would be waste off my money to order this form. Shame it is not the copy off the shipper invoice because it would cut down more on the want a be car & will help lot off people from scammed. But on the bright side it will help some people know were there car came from & build dates!
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2014, 08:49:20 AM »

the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   Smiley

Paul

Paul, NCRS is a not for profit organization, they have non NCRS members join NCRS before they can receive the Corvette Data! Given that bit of information I think they are giving you a discount, if your a Camaro, Chevelle or Nova guy you don't have to join NCRS to get the data. So in effect it is a discount already, the price of this service is controlled by GM.

Seriously, I lobbied NCRS hard to get this stuff released for these Marques, when it became obvious we had it all in the records we found for the Corvette. NCRS had to determine if they could handle the process just for the Corvette, once we got that under control, we went back to GM and said OK let us do the same thing for the other cars.
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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2014, 08:51:20 AM »

so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.

Short answer No.
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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2014, 09:37:45 AM »

Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2014, 10:03:41 AM »

Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.

Charley,

I think once we get our feet on the ground with this service and begin too figure out exactly what we can and cant do with it there are all kinds of possibilities.  I personally appreciate your support in this. It was huge step for the NCRS board to approve this, they are after all a Corvette club and convincing them they owed it to the rest of the Hobbyist to provide the information it was no minor feat.
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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2014, 10:34:18 AM »

Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed
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« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »

Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed


Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  Smiley

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.
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« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2014, 11:19:17 AM »

Thanks for the explaination Roy. To boil it all down, it's a major PIA!!

And I can guarantee that MY Camaro will be on one of the missing microfiche pages!!

(By the way, you should also have a request for my 69 Corvette sitting on your desk!)

Ed
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« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 12:38:43 PM »

It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  Smiley

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.

Roy,

Now that you explained the process, $50.00 is a bargain!  Thanks for your & NCRS' hard work for making this service available for us Camaro lovers.  I can't wait to find out my car's birthday!

Paul
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« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2014, 02:22:04 PM »

With items like this being dusted off by GM, 40 to 50 years after the cars were produced, it makes me wonder what else GM has tucked away in their archives: shipping docs, more pertinent info for what cars got certain options. I can imagine a lot of documentation still being tucked away, that may be released slowly and periodically by GM at their discretion I suppose, or maybe as they run across it and come to the idea that there is a huge group of car owners waiting with baited breath for more docs to get released.
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« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2014, 02:31:32 PM »

What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
Anyone??
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« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2014, 02:33:54 PM »

Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed
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« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2014, 02:54:14 PM »

Hey Ed, I am glad this was bright to light. How did this information come about?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2014, 03:16:42 PM »

Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

Austin,
The records at GM have sifted thru and examined several times over the years. I believe this is as good as it will get....

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« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2014, 04:18:59 PM »

Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

You are welcome.
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« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 05:25:19 PM »

Thanks Roy.
I really appreciate this.
Hope my cars are listed in the files.
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« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2014, 07:07:04 PM »

Huge thank you to the NCRS team for taking this on and for Roy to communicate and to be part of that team. I'm an NCRS member and think the organization is first class.
Thanks Roy!
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« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2014, 08:11:17 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
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« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2014, 08:37:30 PM »

Thank you Roy! I'm in.
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« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2014, 08:50:10 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
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« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2014, 09:25:57 PM »

Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
Thanks Roy, for your time explaining.  And yes, for process involved I believe it is good investment, particularly for those who have nothing.  Cudos also to NCRS.

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
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« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2014, 02:20:53 AM »

Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed

Thanx Ed! Smiley
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« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2014, 06:59:49 PM »

Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?
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« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2014, 07:39:17 PM »

Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
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« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2014, 07:50:52 PM »

...And I'd guess if one was exchanged to another dealer, it wouldn't be too far from the one that it was shipped to.
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« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »

Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
Thanks Kurt,
Sounds like there could be a few that will be left wondering if their POP or window sticker is authentic. Hopefully not but seems to be a real possibility.
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« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2014, 10:39:21 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
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« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2014, 11:33:22 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?
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« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2014, 09:53:53 AM »

Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?

The factory filled out only the top portion of the POP, the other info was labled or written in by the selling dealer. Picture of POP found on Google. George
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« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2014, 01:52:59 PM »

I've seen detailed dealer notes for a dealer trade. They noted all the options / colors / costs and which dealer on the various cars they found available for the buyer. Looks like it took a bit of footwork and time on the phone.
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« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2014, 02:12:30 PM »

My great-uncle had a Chevy dealership back in the day. He was more than willing to find a car for you --as long as he thought it was going to result in a sale after the time and effort (phone calls, "trading" negotiations and getting the car).  On the whole the possible cars needed to be within a hundred miles of the dealership, and it often depended on whether he had something the other dealer wanted. As I recall the info on the car still had the original dealer info on it.  All my great-uncle wanted with his name on it was the purchase agreement. 
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« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2014, 10:00:49 PM »

Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?

Yes, in fact I woiuld not expect to if it was a dealer trade, the selling dealer is supposed to complete it.
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« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2014, 02:41:23 PM »

Just to add something to the discussion and respond to the earlier requests....This is what I got when I sent in my money for information on my Corvette.  If we could only have THIS for our Camaros - OMG!



-Mark.
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« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2014, 03:42:34 PM »

wow..   that sure looks like more than a 'shipper'... and MUCH More than just the date/dealer...  IS that what you got from NCRS for your Corvette?   I've got a few older Corvettes I'd like to have that for as well.. 
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2014, 05:14:26 PM »

You can get that from GM, I ordered it for my 81 Z28 a couple of years ago. My understanding is that the records are only available from around 1977and newer for chevrolet. I pasted the link to the site below.


http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/GM_Vehicle_Invoices,_Build_Records_and_Vintage_Vehicle_Information_Availability


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« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2014, 05:37:21 PM »

Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972?HuhHuh

 Grin      Wink
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69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2014, 11:01:43 PM »

Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972?HuhHuh

 Grin      Wink

Gary - do you not consider a 180 hp 1985 Z/28 to be a passenger car ? Or are you suggesting the 1980 Citation was a sports car (drove both) ? I'm confused -

Just kidding, of course. I did think a lot of my 1976 Malibu Land Barge.

Back on the thread - I do think even the dealer ship to and completion date for two of my vehicles is worthwhile - especially when I don't have that bit of info. One more piece to the puzzle.

Regards -
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« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2014, 11:40:42 PM »

Do I have to answer that?  Smiley
I will buy their data for my car just to get a GM 'date' (whether it be production date or shipping date), it will be worthwhile.. Smiley
In fact, I will probably try to get the data for my older Corvettes as well (The '69 is the only one I have protecto plate for, and also have the build sheet from the tank).   
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2014, 01:00:02 PM »

Guys the date provided with this service is the official GM Production date, the date is contained in what we call the shipping data record's - but it is the official GM production date, it is not the date the car was shipped, unless of course they shipped it on the production date, I suspect that could happen but probably did not happen often.
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« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2014, 01:10:28 PM »

Roy, I appreciate all your efforts on behalf of Chevrolet enthusiasts.

I have a question. If a car is started on one day and finished on another, which day would be considered the official GM production date?
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« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2014, 01:16:16 PM »

The day it finished! Based on what we understand the production date is the day the car finished and was billed to the dealer.
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« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2014, 02:33:38 PM »

Great info. Thanks, Roy.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2014, 03:12:05 PM »

Think of it as your car's birthday!    Smiley

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« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2014, 03:19:13 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2014, 03:33:08 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

Paul
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« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2014, 03:34:40 PM »

What would you consider close.... on my reply # 23 the camaro was transfered 366 miles from Burns, Oregon to Coquille, Oregon. ( Coos Bay Oregon )
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" He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught"  It's not you...  It's just the way my brain is wired.
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« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2014, 03:36:59 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

Paul

When the zone had finished checking and approving the order and delivered it to the plant for assembly.
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« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2014, 03:56:57 PM »

it WAS the car's birthday...  Smiley..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. Smiley

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   Grin

Paul

For me..  the *closest* to that feeling I can imagine.. is the time when you're sitting in the New Car Sales Manager's office, listing out the options and colors I want (Hugger Orange of course)..  and listening to the sales manager tell me..  it will likely be in within 2 or 3 weeks.. Smiley ...  we'll call you!  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2014, 04:10:45 PM »

I thought like Gary when you place the order. But then I thought all you did was pay for the date. So then I got very philosophical and thought ok when does it become a car?Huh with the frame? the body the motor? when the metal is poured into the casting for the motor, or pressed into the body and tack welded ? Or is the rolling chassis like the egg and the motor is the "go" juice ?? So when they are mated together on the line you have conception.  Cheesy   . Obviously this can open further debate....
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2014, 04:18:29 PM »

LOL!   Cheesy

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« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2014, 08:40:28 PM »

Roy, another question for you please. If a car was a special GM executive purchased car for example, how would that show on the NCRS records?
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1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, 3 owner car
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« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2014, 10:26:05 PM »

That would probably depend on what you define as special. A car ordered by an executive through the normal new car purchase program would most likely show up as a zone and dealer with the dealer name. Cars for some executives probably went through the zone offices in which case threy show up as the zone office orders. Some of Mr Earl's styling cars show up as GM shop orders. So there a multitude of answes depending on who and why.
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« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2014, 11:26:53 PM »

That makes sense. I can see where there could be many variations. This is all very interesting to me. Thank you for your response!
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1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, 3 owner car
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int.
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« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2014, 08:52:38 PM »

Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.
Ed, Thanks for posting this "long awaited" info on our first Generation Camaros.  I've waited for something like this to be available over the years.  A lot of the Camaro Guru's will jump on this come April.  I know I'll be signing up.  Thanks to all who made this happen!!  Don
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« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2014, 09:00:05 PM »

Thanks to Mr. Sinor,  the NCRS and GM as well as anyone involved with facilitating this  process.

We have paid substantially more than $50.00 in order to obtain just part of this info and did not get a nice certificate to go along with it.
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« Reply #106 on: February 08, 2014, 07:04:27 PM »

I just purchased a 1974 Z28 yes i know it's a second gen but I would like to know the history on this car. I do have two 69 Camaro's that will be checked also.
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« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2014, 08:01:34 PM »

22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2014, 10:21:36 AM »

22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.

Actually, it's much more than that - from Roy Sinor's reply #57 in this thread on January 23rd:

"Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages."

This was NOT a low-budget project. :-)
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« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2014, 02:37:01 PM »

Yes exactly what I was saying... If it were isolated it was 30k plus pages for first gen camaros which alone is a monumental task... however as stated it is not isolated so the task becomes exponentially more complicated.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2014, 03:42:28 PM »

Read elsewhere that this service has been delayed from mid-April until July - can anyone involved with NCRS confirm?
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2014, 03:56:23 PM »

I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
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« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2014, 03:39:15 AM »

I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
Thanks Roy - will be waiting in anticipation like a kid on Christmas Eve!
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2014, 07:31:39 AM »

Guys, This project is much more complicated for us than the Corvette roll out was. we were fortunate in dealing with Corvette it was a captive audience, read members only,  so we had all of the contact information and did not have to capture that data it in the order process. It was a simple matter of replying to a profile that was established in our database.

We do not have your addresses and contact information, so we had to create that bridge. 

The more serious issue is the number of production plant facilities that this service encompasses. In the Corvette world we dealt with one plant St. Louis, filtered out the different models that were not Corvette and were ready to go, its not near that simple here.

We have multiple plants, multiple models

We are making progress and while the roll out has been delayed it is going to occur, again the date has been moved to May 1, 2014
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« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2014, 09:48:08 AM »

thanks for the continued help in this endeavor!
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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