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Author Topic: X Codes  (Read 5415 times)
abad69
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« on: September 15, 2006, 11:33:31 PM »


Hi, I have a 69 Camaro convertable that I am restoring. I don't know what it originaly was excepr a basket case. Any emblems were removed. It has disc brakes and 5 leaf rear springs. it is not X coded. The build date is 5D. I have found a casting and date matching 350 block, heads, intake, carb and built it into a 300 HP. My question is will I be ok to make it a SS.      Jim
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william
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 10:47:35 AM »

Perhaps you are new to the hobby or do not follow it that closely. You have stumbled into an area that definitely has two camps.

What you are asking is essentially "Can I build a fake Camaro SS?" Fakes are also called clones, re-creations and tribute cars. A rose by any other name...

Some seem to think that is fine as long as you display it as a clone. Problem is you will sell it someday and the next owners may choose not be quite so honest. There are several ZL1 clones proudly displayed at shows with no mention on their signage. A fake LS6 Chevelle was just "outed' resulting in a lawsuit as it had been completely mis-represented.

Tread very carefully here.
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abad69
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2006, 08:25:56 PM »

What I am asking is if this could be an non coded SS and how do I find out for sure. All my vin code says is it had a V8 motor and is a convertible. Does any one know if they produced non coded super sports at the end of may in 69. I am noy sure it is fake as much as I am not sure it is real.   HuhHuhHuh
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Mark
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 08:48:43 PM »

How many fuel lines under the car?
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
abad69
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 11:26:43 PM »

Mark, Thanks for the lead about fuel lines. I just started tearing the under carrage out to replace it from the lower cowel back and there was one line to the fuel pump but the fuel sender unit has two fittings on it. One was in use and the other was pluged off. The lines seem to be 3/8" to the fuel pump and 1/4" pluged. The pluged line was done with a small peace if hose with a bolt screwed into it. The tank and sender unit look original. Do the lines run together? It didn't appear that there was another line that had been removed but there is a lot of rust and I really can't tell if there was or wasn't. How and where would the return line be attached to the front subframe. There is quite a bit of rust on it but I might be able to find some remains where it attached.   Did all the 69 super sports have a return fuel line? Thanks  Jim
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JohnZ
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 09:33:20 AM »

Did all the 69 super sports have a return fuel line? Thanks Jim

The 350 (L-48) and the two hydraulic-lifter 396's (L-34/L-35) had return lines, the L-78 did not.
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'69 Z/28
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RJ_RS_SS_350
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 04:31:58 PM »

This must be a LOS car. You should post a pic of your cowl tag, or list all info from it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 04:34:38 PM by RJ_RS_SS_350 » Logged
william
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 07:45:32 PM »

I have to preface a statement with some history about myself.

I bought my 1st 1969 Camaro Z/28 in 1975. Sold it 2 years later, bought another and on and on. From 1983-1997 I was involved with a business selling 1st gen Camaro parts. In those days the cars were plentiful and we parted dozens of them, set up/attended hundreds of swap meets, prowled junk yards from coast to coast, bought and sold an incredible amount of 1st gen Camaro parts during that time. We were small - D & R and Z & Z [to name a few] had many many times more cars & parts than we did. We sold it all: MO & DZ 302 engines, Muncie 4-speeds, '837' alternators, disc brake subframes, 12-bolt axles including 2 BEs, a complete JL8 setup, aluminum intakes including a cross-ram, factory Holley carbs, wheels, glass, sheetmetal including RS conversions and compete bodies supplied by our friends out West. In this time we helped many people restore and unfortunately unwittingly create cars.

This nonsense about claiming a car is an SS, Z/28 or whatever because it has 4-leaf springs, front discs or a 12-bolt has got to stop. We sold all that stuff many times over as did all other Camaro vendors at the time, 23 years ago. While certain characteristcs may have validity such a Z/28 without a Muncie speedo cable routing anything else can be and has been added. The famous '69 LH tailpipe plate takes about a minute to remove intact from a parts car and has been reproduced. And I grabbed many of the meaningless rear brakeline valves in junkyards. Body tags? Don't make me laugh. Those were being swapped 25 years ago. A few years ago I was visiting another vendor who showed me literally hundreds of them in an old toolbox.

The only way you can be certain of a cars' pedigree is genuine factory paperwork or irrefutable VIN-stamped drivetrain componentry.

 
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abad69
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2006, 03:32:09 PM »

The trim tag reads as follows

ST 69 12467                 NOR335792 BDY
TR 711                                 76  B  PNT
    05D
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william
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2006, 06:38:32 PM »

Hugger orange convertible with black top, black standard interior. Body started in production the 4th week of May 1969 at the Norwood Ohio assembly plant.

For reasons unknown there were a number of convertibles built at that time with no X code on the tag.

You are free to do as you please with your car. If you wish to build the car as an SS with all the proper componentry and call it a clone, tribute, re-creation, go right ahead.
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RamAirDave
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 01:02:04 AM »

I think the line is blurred between clone/tributes and fake/retagged/restamped cars.  To me, they are not the same at all.

A clone is simply cosmetic, while the other is fraud.  Clone, a quick check of the numbers will show what it is.  If the numbers have been manipulated to make it appear as something it is not, then thats totally different.
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"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

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KurtS
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 12:08:07 AM »

Sounds like one fuel line.
What's the VIN and axle code? http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#RearAxleNumbers
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Kurt S
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ccmblack
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2006, 01:25:49 AM »

Similar too "abad69"'s post I have the same question.  I recently purchased a Van Nuys dover white/ med red interior/wjite top convertible that has SS emblems on it.  The block has been replaced.  My question is if it is an SS car or a clone?   Vin tag below...although I didn't buy it expecting the SS authenticity...just expecting family enjoyment.


ST 69 12467              VN 238117
TR 718               50 A
01D                            S532
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RamAirDave
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2006, 02:03:29 AM »

For a VN car, you will need #s matching or paperwork.  No Xcodes on those tags.

There are some tell-tale signs, such as date matching 12 bolt, multi leafs, PBs with the valve on the subframe, # of fuel lines, etc.  But even those cant be definitive.
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"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

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ccmblack
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2006, 02:23:53 AM »

Ramairdave - Thanks

The car does have multi-leaf rear, PS with valve on sub frame - I am not sure about the # of fuel lines, or the rear, (althoughI beleive it is a 10 bolt...not sure reight now).  Does this info tell you anything?  Does an SS need all the options you posted?
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Mark
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2006, 06:51:04 AM »

If the car was made after 1/1/69 and has 2 fuel lines, its an SS.  The only small block that used two fuel lines after that date was the L48.  Both the L34 and L35 big blocks also used two fuel lines, all others had a single 3/8" fuel line.

SS's also required front discs, multileaf rear springs and for the most part a 12 bolt axle, although an L48 with a powerglide transmission would come with a 10 bolt axle.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
KurtS
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2006, 11:37:40 PM »

I'll ask the same questions I asked above:
How many fuel lines and what's the axle code (see sketch under Decoding)?
What's the VIN?
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Kurt S
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