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Author Topic: If Anyone is Interested in a 67 Pace Car  (Read 1349 times)
cook_dw
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« on: January 08, 2014, 09:12:15 PM »

1967 Pace Car
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Darrell Cook
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 10:18:07 PM »

VIN:  124677N201823

Paul
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sixt9x33rs
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 08:27:14 AM »

What a deal?
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'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
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69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 08:51:39 AM »

What a deal?

Maybe it's owned by a 'country music star'??  Smiley    adds 2X value you know.. Smiley
Alan Jackson is a possibility, as he owns many nice classic cars.. used to bring them to our car shows.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 09:43:56 AM »

Not sure who owns it.  Just cruising craigslist and found it and thought I would pass it along for data and/or interest.
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
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Mark
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 01:41:45 PM »

It's Tom Huber's car, and was extensively restored with all GM parts allegedly.  It is a lot of money, maybe more than the market will bear certainly in a Craigslist ad anyway.  The only way to get that much green out of it is at a high end auction like a Mecum event, but I don't think the market is there either.  Not just for this car, but for anything that isn't a COPO (and even those are not really pulling this kind of dollars anymore), or something special.  I think getting 6 figures for anything that isn't a COPO is going to be tough, and getting anything over 150K would require something like a ZL1, old known drag car or really high end L72's.  I know i would like to see the market for the first gens to come back to what it was 6 years ago, but it's not back and most likely won't come back as the buyer base is moving one, and the younger buyers just don't care about these cars as much.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 04:18:02 PM »

It's Tom Huber's car, and was extensively restored with all GM parts allegedly.  It is a lot of money, maybe more than the market will bear certainly in a Craigslist ad anyway.  The only way to get that much green out of it is at a high end auction like a Mecum event, but I don't think the market is there either.  Not just for this car, but for anything that isn't a COPO (and even those are not really pulling this kind of dollars anymore), or something special.  I think getting 6 figures for anything that isn't a COPO is going to be tough, and getting anything over 150K would require something like a ZL1, old known drag car or really high end L72's.  I know i would like to see the market for the first gens to come back to what it was 6 years ago, but it's not back and most likely won't come back as the buyer base is moving one, and the younger buyers just don't care about these cars as much.

I hear often that younger guys don't like our cars. I guess "younger" needs to be qualified. I agree the early twenty's don't seem to have interest but the late 20's to our ages do have interest. I see them at car shows, I see them writing in to the mags, they come up to me and ask questions at the gas stations while I am in the cars. Part of the problem for these "kids" is that it is hard for them to afford these cars. You can't get a normal car loan for  these toys, these kids usually don't have fat equity lines. So barriers of entry are high. I do agree that the enthusiasum isn't what it was in the late 60's and 70's but agin it is hard to buy these ole girls if you are not writing a check. Just my 50 year old .02 worth.
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'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 05:07:21 PM »

These are not the cars the "younger crowd" grew up with so they don't have the want or need for them the way we did, or do.  I'm 55, and my high school car was a 68 Camaro, it was only 6 years old when i got it (from a bone yard) and theres been a Camaro of one kind or the other in the yard or driveway since then.  People tend to stick with the cars of their youth when they are having that mid life crisis or just want to relive the old times and these cars are getting further away from the people who have the spare cash laying around to buy them.  Thats not going to change.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 11:13:50 PM »

These are not the cars the "younger crowd" grew up with so they don't have the want or need for them the way we did, or do.  I'm 55, and my high school car was a 68 Camaro, it was only 6 years old when i got it (from a bone yard) and theres been a Camaro of one kind or the other in the yard or driveway since then.  People tend to stick with the cars of their youth when they are having that mid life crisis or just want to relive the old times and these cars are getting further away from the people who have the spare cash laying around to buy them.  Thats not going to change.

That's true..  but my daughters, sons in law, and even young grandkids.. when asked which of my cars they want ..  always pick the Camaro..  Smiley    Maybe it's the Hugger Orange that draws them?   (*Of course, they are *assuming* they would inherit it, not pay for it.. )   Smiley     and that goes back to the cost issue as pointed out by sixt9x33rs...  Even my 9 yr old granddaughter likes it, wants it, and always wants to help work on it..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 11:26:23 PM »

its NOT the hugger orange !!!

j/k
Man with your collection each of your relatives could pick 2 Grin
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 05:43:05 AM »

the 60 Vette, hands down would be my pick---I'm only 47 and looking to buy in the near future not sell so not really complaining if the bottom drops Grin  And my Z , when I'm done playing with it, is going to my son. Many summers down the road.
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hgger69
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 07:14:27 AM »

its NOT the hugger orange !!!

It´s ALWAYS the hugger orange, dude! Wink
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 08:01:00 AM »

In 2001 I built up a supercharged 1.6L  "B" series 1995 Honda and did a F+F car.   Still have the car today... the modifications are tasteful and the car has 54,000 Miles on it and for a 4 cylinder it is pretty fast    The Honda still attracts everybody from the 35 year old down to the 16 year kids when displayed.    When parked alone it gets all the attention, however when the Honda is displayed alongside any of the first or second Generation Camaro's I have things change as the focus turns to the Camaro, so I ask "which do you like better-the Honda or the Camaro?"

It is always the Camaro - each and every time. 

They always say "I cannot afford the Camaro".    Why is that I ask?    The answer is usually along these lines:  "You old guys still fight over these cars and we are priced out of the market..I cannot afford a Camaro that is not a 1975-1977 but I still want a good one.

The follow up is the kicker...I ask what are you going to do about it.... the reply is "get a better job and wait you guys out - we will get your cars eventually". 
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 08:13:33 AM »

IMO... Camaros, and other such cars from the sixties, and even the mid-fifties Chevys etc, will always be in demand, as long as we can still obtain the necessary items (fuel? laws?) etc.. to drive them.  I've always been a bit worried by having so many old cars that are reliant on proper fuel to drive; in fact, I parked my Camaro in 1980 because of insufficient octane fuel to run my 12:1 engine...
PS>  The fifties and sixties, into the early 70's, were the 'golden age' as far as automobile design was concerned... Smiley..     I suppose I should rewrite that to 'modern or common golden age', given the beauty of some of the Art Deco 30's designs.. Smiley
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:39:35 AM by 69Z28-RS » Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 12:52:50 PM »

They always say "I cannot afford the Camaro".    Why is that I ask?    The answer is usually along these lines:  "You old guys still fight over these cars and we are priced out of the market..I cannot afford a Camaro that is not a 1975-1977 but I still want a good one.

The follow up is the kicker...I ask what are you going to do about it.... the reply is "get a better job and wait you guys out - we will get your cars eventually". 
Here my take since I may not fit into the target of the "old guys" crowd yet.
I think "the old guys" may compete more for the numbers type of cars (i know I do). There are a ton of affordable first gen Camaros out there still, as well as mustangs, and most other base cars.

The issue isn't price as much as it is nostalgia, and wanting it bad enough vs. being content with an import or newer car:
I have always been around older stuff, my mom and aunt always dragged my sister and I to antique stores when we were young, my mom drove a 67 Austin Healy 3000 (which she still has) my dad drove a Volkswagen bus. My mom bought her car 6 months used my dad bought his 71 bus new, but I was born quite a ways after that, we never actually had a "new" car. In fact my parents drove both those cars as their daily drivers well into the 1990's, and still have them today. (It was safe to say we were on the bottom rung of the middle class  Cheesy  )I had hand me down hot wheels and the old style metal tootsie toys as a kid, and very once in a while I would get a nice 1/18th scale or smaller nice adult collector car for a birthday or Christmas.  By the time I was about 14 and asked what I wanted I had no clue, and this perplexed me at the time, because the thought had never crossed my mind. So I looked at all my cars and decided on the 1962 Ferrari GTO. An awesome, beautiful car, and still one of my absolute favorites, BUT at 14 I had snuck into a concors de elegance, saw them on the lawn and then realized oh well theres no way thats going to work out. So what is the next best closest thing, I thought well maybe I could get a ..... wait for it......Fiero! thats right a pontiac fiero was the closest thing that looked like the Ferrari to me. But the more i looked at the fiero, (and it was on its way out at that time) the guys who drove them were posers, so I didn't want to associate with fags. I was with my mom one day when she asked again, I said I don't know maybe something older, and then I heard a car pass us, it sounded good even in stock form and I asked my mom what kind of car it was. She said "oh thats a Mustang, there good cars". (it was a 65 coupe with a 289) Well when I thought about it a moment, I asked how much were they, and said said she didn't think that they were all that expensive. So even though I could have saved up for a 80's Camaro, Fiero, but they didn't have the timeless class of a "classic car" (thats we called them then, not muscle cars). So I saved up money cutting lawns working at safeway and in the summers doing construction with my uncle and bought a project 65 mustang fastback. Through cleaning that car up, and then maintaining through high school I learned the hard way, and with the other car guys in high school in metal shop and auto shop we rebuilt transmissions and pulled motors, did drum brakes. I got a sense it was all very similar to the legos I had, and if you followed a plan of putting stuff together, it looked nice and functioned when you were done.
Once i had one car, then I thought the next best thing was 2 and 3 and 4 cars, and before long I had a 55 chevy 2 door post, a 66 Chevelle SS, and then I bought another. Life was good. It was the great times I had in high school with other guys that had a  Chevelle, bug, and el camino, and doing the burn outs, and street racing/ sears point 1/4 mile drags on grudge night.

My point is I was around the cars. There was only me and like 5 other guys that had classic cars in high school. None of our cars was the HiPo version or SS. my mustang was a V8 the Chevelle my friend had was just a Malibu, and the el caminos were just plain jain el caminos. (the SS chevelles I had right after high school & I had one rich friend who's dad splurged and got him the 69 Z/28 when he wanted just a 69 350 car). All the cars we had in high school are not a whole lot more today, but our auto shop and metal shop got turned into a dance studio a few years after I graduated, and less and less guys drove older cars after I graduated. So to me the guys that see the Finished first gen camaros now like them but do not have the memories of a friend having one, and have no clue how to wrench on them,  let alone the beauty/simplicity of the small block chevy.
So this younger generation will wait until they have some money to buy a finished one when their older that they most likely will not know how to work on.
The only salvation right now is the kids of classic car owners who have a interest and the parents put a wrench or bond in their hand, OR the rat rod group has injected some new blood into the hobby lately.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 01:42:20 PM »

Yes, but is anyone of them going to fork over 145K for a car (or 60 or 70K for a Z28, or 20-30K for a small block SS) that you obviously can't drive if you ever wish to recoup your "investment", just to have it sit in their garage. 

Make no mistake, I hope the guy gets his price and we all get big bucks when it comes time to sell our cars, but I'm just not seeing the money changing hands and the cars going to any of the "younger crowd" who are looking for one to have and drive around on the occassional sunny weekend day.  The ships have sailed on those kind of sales.  The only place these kinds of cars can go is into someones collectin where it will never see the road again, and theres just not enough of those folks out there to keep up with the supply.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2014, 02:39:15 PM »

All I m saying is there are a lot of base cars still around like when I was in school (90's) that you can pick up for 5K, and a honda with 70k miles is about 3 or 4k. It isn't about the money, it is more about the know how and nostalgia. they want to look good but don't want to put the work in. It is like the do it yourselfers vs the buy it finished crowd. IMO
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2014, 02:58:08 PM »

Theres a big difference in buying a 5K 1st gen Camaro, and a 145K one.  I might buy another one if i could find one for 5K, but around here that will get you some rusted body tub with no drivetrain.  The real question is will the market support a 100K plus Camaro anymore.
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 03:11:32 PM »

The real question is will the market support a 100K plus Camaro anymore.

The answer is no in my opinion.  The market was flooded when BJ & Mecum became all the rage; coupled with the economy, it will be a long time before cars hit those numbers of 2005-09..  Maybe never..  I think you are seeing what the price range will be from here on out.

Just my $0.02
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 03:51:37 PM »

 I'm not in it for the $$$$ so I could care less if the market hit bottom for these cars. Maybe it should because the desire to fake with the purpose to deceive people will vanish and we can get back to enjoying the cars while we are still alive instead of wasting time walking on egg shells with this is a fake and that is a fake mode.

Mike
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 04:09:15 PM »

Guys let me throw this out there... what is the cost for a shop to restore, say a 69 Camaro 50k ? or 60k ? If your in it for the money and have a shop do the all the work you lose.
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2014, 07:23:55 PM »

Could-? Part of the problem is Parts(OEM) (Correct)(Date Correct)(Restored) costs.
I know the "KIDS" laugh at any reference to a +>$200 trunk seal on ebay,,,,,,,
You OLD men.
I am 50 & like others had a 67 in high school so the First gens are a natural to me, unexplainable,,,,,

A friends 20's y/o son has gone thru Dozens of "CRAIGS LIST" Cars (This Pacer is NOT typical) and his 'horse' trading skills are amazing,,,,,,eventually he acquired a 68 Camaro project 250cu/in car after years of haggling. This is One method for the younger group to approach these cars with out the sting of debt which they cannot afford or qualify, but ALL of us want for our gems.
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 10:00:46 PM »

There arent many WW2 veterans around anymore, yet P51 Mustangs are 4M,and some civil war swords bring tens of thousands  ...so I dont buy the age thing. Its more a history thing.
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2014, 10:25:23 PM »

Another 2 cents -

I hit the big 6-0 this past year - and still proud of the fact I've never grown out of my love for F1's, and Chevrolets in general. I like what Ford did to the Mustangs until this model year; I've finally grown to like the new Camaros (I would really like to own a  new Z), and I think Chrysler did a good job with the Challenger. All that said, drive a new one and an F1 side by side down the street, and see which one gets the attention. Put 'em in a car show the same way, and see which gets looked at first. I have thought from time to time that if you put an equivalent F1 and new one for sale at the same price in a lot, I would probably buy the F1 (with the new Z's coming out, I don't know if I can hold that line much longer).

I believe I saw the '67 that started this discussion at the local Franklin show when it was still held at Pinkerton Park, years ago - probably still have pics of it. It is a sterling car, if it's the same one I've drooled over before. $145K ? Rare, documented (?), and well done, might be to the person that really wants a 1st quality Pacer. 

FWIW -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2014, 10:32:04 PM »

There arent many WW2 veterans around anymore, yet P51 Mustangs are 4M,and some civil war swords bring tens of thousands  ...so I dont buy the age thing. Its more a history thing.

Good point and agree! The one thing that changed was muscle cars came back stronger than ever. When we were in the 1973 time frame and later those cars had nothing so many of us thought the previous years were the end of an era and long live the muscle car but WOW, the cars of today are just amazing. I have 6 grandkids and when I ask them what car would you take, they all point to the C6 Z06. My guess most of them later in life will be more into the new generation stuff of the 21st Century. Talking about new generation muscle, the new C7 Z06 is going to have 620hp with 650 ft. lbs. of torgue.
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2014, 12:49:03 PM »

While searching the VIN of this car, I got 2 hits. One was this thread, and the other was a website rating this thread and selecting the winning poster. Odd. What the heck is this?

Are we all being judged on our posting skills? I guess I am going to have to practice being more "engaging" without being to "controversial" lol.

And congratulations for winning 69Z28-RS. Better luck next time Mark and 1968RSZ28.

Quote
Thread Statistics:

Site:   camaros.org  - latest threads  
Forum:   General Discussion  
Total authors:  10 authors  
Total thread posts:  15 posts  
Analysis:  The sentiment of the discussion, that spans over 3 days, is neutral. The discussion is quite engaging but isn't controversial. The user 69Z28-RS, was very engaged. It got people interested in the discussion. We find the discussion interesting and original.  
Awards:  The following users won the first, second and third place as most active and engaging users:

 1st Place: 69Z28-RS
 2nd Place: Mark
 3rd Place: 1968RSZ28
 

http://omgili.com/thread/jHIAmI4hxg_7sZBOjv13Ussr9huQ0ACA15.9Dfzy2tY4VLeodFKQ54uZUEe5U1hS3YB4ncyMJ6bxe1kC5.7iPQ--/

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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2014, 01:03:55 PM »

At least I placed.   Grin

Paul
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 01:58:35 PM »

that's funny.....       Smiley
If I'm going to be rated on 'engaging' and 'accurate'..  I need to double/triple check my posts from now on before I send them.. Smiley
JohnZ has a great capability and a nice tendency to correct most of our error posts, so maybe that makes us (me?) a little bit more careless?  Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 02:16:02 PM »

 ;)C'mon at least they could've given out gift cards to the winners....
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 04:09:53 PM »

Shouldnt the OP at least be in the top 3 sense he was the one that created the topic?  Dannnnng...!!!!....   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Darrell Cook
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 07:03:44 PM »

Be careful what you wish for - this might be the work of the 17 year old Russian hacker that ebombed Target - I heard he really likes '67 and '68 Camaros.
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« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 01:02:53 PM »

Guess Im going off the grid.   Cool
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
RGR
Red Gorilla Restorations
All your restoration and plating needs..
email at redgorillarestorations@gmail.com
VINCE Z28
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« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 07:32:04 PM »

Glad he's not into 69's. Grin
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" He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught"  It's not you...  It's just the way my brain is wired.
cook_dw
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« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 09:07:57 PM »

Glad he's not into 69's. Grin

That's because everyone owns a 69.   Tongue
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
RGR
Red Gorilla Restorations
All your restoration and plating needs..
email at redgorillarestorations@gmail.com
69Z28-RS
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owner since '76


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« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:35 PM »

Glad he's not into 69's. Grin

That's because everyone owns a 69.   Tongue

Nope, not everyone..  only the most discriminate of us..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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