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Author Topic: Help please, decoding car  (Read 1828 times)
KERR
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« on: December 14, 2013, 10:45:14 PM »

So I picked up a 69 that I mentioned last week. Car is pretty nice but not perfect, 

So far I've found they color is correct, at some point some dyed the interior from white to black, and changed the top from white to black
Along with the racing stripes.

Anyway I understand that vin doesn't tell us a lot,  the trim tag will tells some info but not everything.

I searched on here and it said a build sheet could be under rear seat,  I took that out and didn't find anything but a lot of dust lol

Next I looked under the cowl tag but I can't see any numbers under there.  Everything looks stock just no numbers. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or something has been replaced at some point

I also read that maybe there is a tank sticker?  I know my vette has a tank sticker but wasn't sure if the camaros did.

Reason I'm curious is this a 30k actual mile car,  it's a x11 with AC, disk brakes on the front v8 350 ( not sure if original)  cowl hood , dual exhaust.   But it has a column shift , 

So any tips on what else to look for or how to figure out what I have.   

My game plan was to do a copo clone but with. 632ci  6 speed manual,   However If this car is something nice I'll just restore it and put it in the garage with my other stuff and look for another rust free car

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bcmiller
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 10:20:35 AM »

Which 350?  Check the numbers on the front pad of the engine block (in front of the passenger side cylinder head) and let us know what the numbers and letters are there.  Post some pics of the car if you can.

Some cars had a column shift.  It is a manual or automatic transmission. Which rear axle?  There will be a code there on the front edge of the middle of the passenger side axle tube.
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1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
KERR
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 11:32:54 AM »

It's a turbo350.  The shift has been moved to floor.   It's a total pos.  I'd like to toss it in the trash  it's one of those slap shifter things and they did a very bad job at install  you pull up to get out of park. Then press Down for reverse  to get in drive you have to pull it up then back then something click then push it down

As for the column shit everything is there but the gear selector arm? / stick.  ( the thing you move to put it in gear).  The display say P R N D 2 1. 

I'll post up a bunch of photos tomorrow from work.  The body is straight but the paint is shot.  Picture rat rod / parked at the sun

 
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1slow64
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 04:25:44 PM »

pic of cowl tag and info off rear plus vin will help
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69 X66 RALLY GREEN BLACK COMFORT WEAVE
KERR
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 09:06:12 AM »

Thanks guys,

I told you wrong on the shifter on the column,  its P R N D L,    So im assuming that is power glide?

Vin is
124379N643537

trim tag,
ST69 12437 N "O" or "G" P326079 BDY
TR 727   53 E PNT
O5A       X11

I could not get you in numbers off the trans or rear end.  Only jacks i have at home at 5 ton,  and nothing will go under the car

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cook_dw
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 09:40:30 AM »

Thanks guys,

I told you wrong on the shifter on the column,  its P R N D L,    So im assuming that is power glide?

Vin is
124379N643537

trim tag,
ST69 12437 N "O" or "G" P326079 BDY
TR 727   53 E PNT
O5A       X11

I could not get you in numbers off the trans or rear end.  Only jacks i have at home at 5 ton,  and nothing will go under the car





ST 69 12437NOR326079

Ext Paint is Glacier Blue With Parchment vinyl top (if it had stripes they would have been white as well)
Interior is Ivory/Black

First week of May build which falls in line with the vin.

X11 means style trim.


If the engine is out of the car get a pic of the firewall.
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Darrell Cook
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bcmiller
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 10:14:35 AM »


I told you wrong on the shifter on the column,  its P R N D L,    So im assuming that is power glide?

Yes, it appears the original transmission was a Powerglide.
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1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
Kelley W King
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 10:26:09 AM »

colors would make it a pretty car
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KERR
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 11:07:42 AM »

Thanks guys..   I couldnt remember on the transmission.   The man i got it from said its a Turbo350.  So if the car was born as a PG then that rules out a true SS for sure.. 


I agree the color is pretty,  but at some point they painted the car with blue spray paint from lows... Sad and sprayed the seats as well,  maybe even the top. 

The paint is so bad, i was embarassed to drive it!  And i still ride a suburban thats been threw 2 tornados, a major hair sortm a few blizzards and huricane..  There isnt a stright body pannel left on it.    Its not that paint is "bad" that bothered me,  Its the " lazy work done" to get that paint job.. 

So we started wet sanding it.  My thoughts where crap cant look worse,  So bunch of time, some hurting arms later i have very very smooth faded out, camaro now..   Even thought it look real bad its better than it was..

To all the 100% perfect guys,  Grab a trash can you might need it Wink





what looks like reflections in the stripes are runs..


trunk,  the stripes would just flake off..  if you look close you can see it in the bottom left,  also you can see where they tried to fix it with tape.


about 20 min of work and the stipes are gone.    I didnt get that lucky on the hood






Next day  i repainted stripes back on with spray paint,  The hood burned threw as soon as i started wet sanding.  I didnt want to look like a dumb ars with racing stripes on the hood and non on the trunk. Flat black with sand paper


Motor,


ideling


wet sanding with one of my hellions.



rough looking but a lot better than the smurf blue with runs... 


It hasent been washed so all of that little stuff will come off.


passanger side




This crap will have to go,  no clue why the want that much spring,   The gas is stiffer than my clutch in the corvette..



more shady work



I guess now ill just, plasti dip it clear,  or maybe that KOI orange,  then wait and see what you all can help me figure out..  With out a known owner, or any paper work its pretty much a shot in the dark,  Besided color and V8 thats about all i have to go on.   It does have disk brakes, but i only see one fuel line going into the fuel pump,   I also cant see under the car for the second bracket as the web page shows.

If it turns out to just be just a " regular " camaro instead of a SS,  Im going to continue down the road of changing stuff..   But if its a True SS,  which i doubt it going by the column shift,  Ill sent out for a factory repaint and all new interior.  Then put it away.   

Bottom line is i dont want to go do a Motor, trans, rear end, color swap, on a 30,000 original mile car if its a true SS...

     
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bcmiller
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 12:47:20 PM »

I could not get you in numbers off the trans or rear end.  Only jacks i have at home at 5 ton,  and nothing will go under the car

You really don't need a jack to see the rear axle code. You can see it from just crawling under the car in most cases.  See this link.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#axle

Did you check the engine code?  See this location.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#PadStamps

More specifically, here. In front of the passenger side cylinder head.
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/decoding/1967-69_V8engine_stamp_location.jpg

What makes you this is a 30,000 mile car?  Service records?  Other documentation?

And you mentioned "under the cowl tag" a few times.  There are no numbers in that location.
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1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
KERR
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 02:17:38 PM »

im just going by the title and paper work from the dmv and the odometer

 
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KurtS
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 05:54:27 PM »

10 or 12 bolt?
Post the engine code and axle code and that will tell us alot.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 06:34:53 PM »

If someone said it already I missed it..but easy way to check for 'possible' SS is behind the driver's side rear wheel, along the frame rail at about 1 o'clock see if there are 2 holes OR a steel plate apox. 3x5" welded onto the frame rail there with 2 holes in it. If its just 2 holes drilled thru the frame, its NOT an SS.  If that plate is there, it 'MIGHT' be an  SS.  The plate indicates dual exhaust from the factory which SS had. BUT any V8 could be ordered with dual exhaust. Its just another part of your puzzle to add to. Smiley
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KERR
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 03:30:36 PM »

awesome,

Ill check all that tonight,  i dont think i have to take the kids anywhere..  last night was two hours of basket ball...whoo hooo  Roll Eyes
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KERR
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 06:09:33 PM »

Ok the rear end says
Gm 70
3894859 nf


I see two holes on the outside of the frame but nothing on the inside

I also only see one fuel line out of the tank. 
As for motor numbers I can't see anything with this brake booster and crap in the way lol

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bcmiller
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:27:04 PM »

You need to look at the rear axle in the area where I told you to look.  See the picture I linked too.  The numbers will be stamped on front of the passenger side axle tube, not cast into the metal on the center section.

As for the engine code, look where I told you to look.  On the pad of the block, in front of the passenger side cylinder head.  Alternator may be in the way, but the brake booster is no where close to this area.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 09:32:17 AM by bcmiller » Logged

1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
KERR
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 09:45:49 AM »

ill look again,   but those are the only numbers i saw on the rear end..     I cant see any numbers on the pad, its got ac line, alt etc in front of it.  maybe this weekend ill have time to dig into it

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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 10:06:10 AM »

stamped code on the rear axle:   Look on the front side of the passenger side axle tube, about half way between brake and differential.    You'll have to clean the tube and use a bright light to see it...

Engine pad:   look down behind your alternator, straight down to a smoooth front pad on the engine block, adjacent to the head.  Again, you may have to clean the pad, or use some chalk to see the stamped codes.
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KERR
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2013, 09:09:21 AM »

well i looked again last night,   i guess im missing a number on the rear axle.   It looks like BP 04256.     which by that chart on here is a 10 bolt, with high gear ratio,  so some has swapped out the gear at some point.  it turns 3500 rpms at 70 mph. 

as for the engine pad,  it's either an aftermarket block ?  or there is so much paint build up on it that i cant see or feel any numbers.   i guess at some point ill take the alt off and get a razer blade or something to scrap the paint off.. 



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bcmiller
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2013, 09:44:36 AM »

Rear axle is probably BP 0425G1 - so the assembly date of the housing was April 25.  Your car was assembled the first week of May, so the housing may be original to the car.

The BP code is 2.73 - you probably saw that. That ratio was commonly used in 1969 for the 230, 250 and 327 cubic inch engines when a Powerglide transmission was used. Probably with the 307 engine too, but I can't confirm that at the moment.  My guess is the original engine was a 307.

What size rear tire do you have?  I can figure out approximately what gear ratio it has now if you let me know.

With a 26 inch diameter tire, a 3.73 rear gear will give you about 70 mph at 3400 rpms.
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1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 11:41:37 AM »


The BP code is 2.73 - you probably saw that. That ratio was commonly used in 1969 for the 230, 250 and 327 cubic inch engines when a Powerglide transmission was used. Probably with the 307 engine too, but I can't confirm that at the moment.  My guess is the original engine was a 307.
 

Same as my 69.

307 - glide - 10 bolt mono with 2.73 gears.
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Darrell Cook
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KERR
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 03:11:20 PM »

Id have to look on the tire size to be sure,  i know they have been switched out and the rear are wide,  i get some rubbing sound ever now and then..  im not sure what the height is,  when i popped the beauty rings off to wet sand i noticed its a 15' wheel,  i think the  tire said 265,  but i didnt pay a lot of attention.   My daughter was night to point that it has different tires,  " hey dad,  why those tires have different names?  long puse,  i guess the tire store guy cant read"

I know its not to in the 4:56 range,   the vette had 7.70 X15 and i went to a radial from cooker in a 205-75.   in 4th it turns abour 42-4300 at 65 with the 4 speed..   so in the camaro thats probably a 3:73 as you said

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janobyte
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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 04:04:22 PM »

Search the web a little bit " racer's math "   Calculations are done  , just plug in your numbers.  try csgnetwork.com   Engine RPM calculator.
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KurtS
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2013, 12:50:37 AM »

As stated, that's a monoleaf axle. So it wasn't a 350 car originally but a 307.
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Kurt S
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KERR
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2014, 09:14:34 AM »

thanks for all the info..  i guess ill go back to the original game plan of building what i want Smiley
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janobyte
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2014, 12:41:21 PM »

All good Smiley And looks like your kids are having fun with Dad out in the garage--win win !   BTY ,we all build what we want, or they would all look the same Wink
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