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Author Topic: 69 console gauge/ tach question  (Read 2441 times)
Rufcar
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« on: December 10, 2013, 12:46:37 PM »

Im now ready to start my console/tach project and my question is how much of the dash do I need to remove to do the wiring job. I have the console wire and the harness extension. Im guessing the glove box, the ash try unit. the fuel gauge so I can change to tach and maybe the dash pad? Tkx Jim
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69pace
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 07:55:47 PM »

If you have rubber small hands you can remove the pod fuel gauge with the dash carrier in place but it is much easier to do so once the unit is pulled and on a bench. Also the template to cut the pod is usually rear facing, or if you are just using the cutout line on the plastic you need good light. The clock cutout can be made from the front. You can leave the ashtray and glove box in place - nothing to change.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 08:36:22 PM »

Im not doing the clock so why cant I use a dremmel tool and cut out the face for the tach in place where the fuel gauge is? I have the cut out pattern?
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69pace
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 07:44:58 AM »

No clock? It is part of the option and should be there to be factory correct. In any event it is your ride - do as you wish.
You can cut out the shell with the dremmel tool from the front,
but you will still need to get behind the carrier to unbolt the existing fuel gauge, and to mount the Tachometer.
It is very difficult to do from behind and underneath but it can be done, just takes a ton more time to do that way.

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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2013, 04:55:45 PM »

You were right. I took out the dash 20 min!  Removed the gauge cluster about an hr. Cut the hole for tach and fastened the tach to the cluster body about and hr. I also removed the console and installed the gauges and harness about another hour. Most time was spent removing after market gauges from under dash and finding correct block thermostat switch. Tomorrow Ill tackle the harness. Thanks for the tips. Jim
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69pace
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 05:45:04 PM »

LOL yeah and I didn't mention the bloody knuckles trying to do it with the carrier in place.
Wells-Airtex makes the right calibration and connection - most parts counters should have it in stock.
Are you using Classic HQ reproductions or the internal resisted OER versions of the console gauges?
The Classic HQ are original style external resisted so you can "change/correct" the output of the temp gauge to point dead center at normal operating temp of 180. There are a few threads on TC calculating the amount of additional resistance you add tot he back of the gauge.
There is also a thread on TC comparing various manufacturers senders and Ohm's values at specific temps.

You are in the home stretch! maybe another 20 minutes for the harness.
 
 
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 10:46:15 PM »

I dont know I believe  20 min as the harness might take me a bit more plus assembly. Ill try and pull the fuse block loose but Im pretty sure the main harness wires on engine bulkhead have never been removed and they appear to be painted over too!
I found that I have no low fuel light so Ill dead head those yellow wires and I also have no rear seat courtesy lights so Ill probably run the wires to it but I might tape them over for now too. Theres not much original on this car as it was mainly a drag car from inception and that does not not bother me. Heck I installed 2.5" 427 corvette side mounted exhaust on it just like I did on my car in 69! Looks like a Baldwin motion now except for the hocky stripes! But the car still appears like a factory car as all parts I used ar 69 GM
The gauges are OEM I was not aware of the diference of the Classic had I have known Id have used that instead. My houndstooth black front seats came today as my original vinyls are very tired and Ill save those for the next guy! Thanks again
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69pace
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 05:49:36 AM »

The correct console conversion harness should have all the lines in it for the fuel light since you re purpose the oil light for that. The LFW module is the tricky part since that was where the option gets triggered. SOme folks use the factory style and others use the variable set point module so you can customize when the light will come on.

The correct console (has to match your transmission option) will have the orange and white lighting runs in it.  Yeah the 20 mins assumed you had already done the hood wood add 20 to 40 minutes to run the amp lines and the Tachometer feed, and oil line.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 03:52:07 PM »

Got it all in today but I must have ruined the headlight switch when i pulled out the shaft. I didnt know there was a release button so I have no ampmeter, no headlights and other items controled by the switch are screwed up. Im guessing whatever I did to the switch caused the problem. I checked everything many times but someting is wrong. My bigest problem today was that I had no idea that the fuse panel came apart into 3 sections! Now that I know that I could have saved hours!
So now I need to wait for my switch and that wont be here till monday afternoon.
Do you think that the reason I have no movement on my amp gauge? The wires are in the proper place. I see also that the connector 105 A and 106a both went into the fuse box but the directios list a 105 B black that goes to battery junction and 106 B gpes to horn relay are not included. Do I need additionl wires or are they telling me that where those connections already go? Im confused.
I also did not try and plug in the tach yet as I am afraid to burn it up not sure if Ill need the tach adapter or not for my HEI dist.
Jim
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 04:38:30 PM by Rufcar » Logged
69pace
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 06:32:26 PM »

No amp due to connection: I'm on my way home so I'll put the documentation I wrote fro another site. It depends on who's wiring kit you purchased, but most come with both the inside and the hood side wires leads. If yours only had one pair to the fuse-block side, then yes You need to connect from bulkhead to horn and junction block.

Yeah the headlight switch should be the console version anyways in order to account for the increase in draw by the console lighting so no harm there.  I prefer the ones with the ceramic collar on the dimmer for heat control.

Tachometer wise if your ignition box has a port look up the model on the web and see if there is a filter for an analog tach. If you are using a GM HEI dizzy search TC and firstgens.com for a thread on getting an analog tach working. The option is also to have the Tach rebuilt to take the non analog signal and if you fry it testing they can rebuild it non analog at the same time Smiley
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 10:59:20 PM »

I bought the combined set from Matts Bowties and only received the 2 wire set. Ill call AAW tomorrow and get the engine set. I gather Ill need to pull the engine side cover and insert wires oppsite the ones I already did? I will also ck out my HEI tomorrow too. I have it off when I rebuilt the bottom end about a month ago I believe its an older model as it has the mechanical vacuum advance plus it does have a marked "Tach" plug in location too. I really appreciate all your help.
When Im done I plan to write up a good step by step article because with my research on 5 different sites no one has to my knowledge. There was so many missing steps that you filled in for me. This project took me longer as I had to repair missing components from previous owners like missing dash light plugs that where cut off, there was no thermostate wire as the undedash gauges had a direct conect so I have to un ravel the loom and found it cut off and taped in plus other tid bits. Im certain, when Im done I could a complete jop in 1/2 day.
For several years I also did post war Rolls and Bentley restorations and those cars have 3 times as many parts as a Camaro. In a Silver Shadow series It took me 8 hrs to remove the dash cover the 1st time! Now I do it in 25minutes!  Thanks again for all your help.
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69pace
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 07:01:24 PM »

You can also run the leads yourself with the right gauge wire from any parts store. Many have the right stripped colors too. Yes you connect them on the bulkhead connector. I'll pull out my directions to get the right x and y for you and send them to you tonight as someone else over at TC is looking for them too.

Yeah it does sound like you will be able to use your Tach out of the box with a standard filter. The one that Jim's website firstgens.com details works for most folks. Cheap from Radio Shack or I think for a small fee Jim will build you one.

As with all projects I have found for me at least having a detailed plan and doing a dry run always makes the project go smoother. Still you always find issues a PO or you created down the road and now that trips you up. I always plan on any project taking two weekends, that way I'm never up against a hard deadline.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 10:22:54 PM »

I talked to AAW today and they agreed to make me the 3 fused wires for about 7 bucks each and that way there correct and I dont have to run around finding the parts. I ordered a filter from summet racing make for the GM repo tach for 35.
I live 30 miles from any radio shack so this saves me time and $. I also reparied the rear console lamp all I needed was a reflector I got on ebay 8 buck no s+h and its correct and new, The dealers all want 5-10 bucks each for those long bulbs my local auto parts dealer had them for 1.25 each.. The seats came yesterday supposed to be 5-8 weeks they came in 5 days so did the 3 point GM seat belts. I am at a stand still until I get those wires from AAW later next week but by then that all Ill need to finish the dash. Ill have the tach filter early next week too. I ran the car today and I am hoping my burned up light switch is the problem Ill know more once its in and that too will be monday or tue.
Thanks again for all your help. Jim
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Rufcar
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 02:30:30 PM »

More parts came today and I got the tach to work perfectly with the summit racing filter. The headlight switch came and that soveled a few problems but I have no headlights but I do have high beams, I have turn signals but no fog lights, I have no gauge or dash lights but I have courtsey lights on all the time! and until i get the engine extension wires I cant fix the amp gauge. Tomorrow I will go wire by wire and see if somethings loos, missed, unpluged, not grounded etc. Jim
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69pace
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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2013, 03:30:37 PM »

You have a lot going on.
Good to hear the Tachometer is stable. What seats did you go with? 3 point seatbelts from who? Okay on to your trouble....

Sounds stupid but pull off a headlight connector, and put your multi-meter on your low beam bulb connection? zero Ohms would indicate no filament. Also check the connection at the high-beam switch - location leaves it prone to moisture and rot out is common.

The courtesy lights are switched two ways the headlight knob turned to the click position all the way clockwise is ON. Or the door jam switch which actually grounds the circuit. Lift the wire lights go out. Touch to jam lights on. So check both door switches. If that doesn't solve it you might have a dead short someplace.

Fog Lights? Do you mean parking lights up front in the valance? They rely on great grounds to the sheet metal, slightly off no lights - park or turn. If you have turn but no park double check that you have two filament bulbs installed. Should be amber and have off set pins on the sides of the base so in theory they only install one way.

Just watching it snow here and revising my old how to document. Should have it done by the time I need to dig out the Jeep.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2013, 07:37:57 PM »

This mighthelp, everything I restored previously and all worked properly before I did the gauge harness. Im thinking the plug in wires at the fuse block are not powering on, ill ck tomirrow. Jim
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Rufcar
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2013, 03:40:46 PM »

Today I decided to start over. 1st i unpluged and removed the entire new console, turned the battery on and blew the rear lights fuse #2 on left. THen unpluged the front bulkhead from the fuse box and blew the same fuse. Now I know its not in the engine compartment or the new console. I did see that the instructions call for complete removal of the green wire at the bulk and the ignition, I only removed fron the bulkhead but I dont see how that is a problem but today I removed it anyway. I tiddied up the tach wiring in the engine bay and called it a day. I need to get more fuses tomorrow and do more testing. SOmehow I still think its in the new headlight switch. The only wire I changed out was the white wire, the interior lights never go off now at all but tomorrows another day.
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Rufcar
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 12:00:03 PM »

Found the problem today, human error! I had the white harnees wire pluged into the wrong location at the headlight switch now everything works with the exception of the amp gauge and those under hood wires should be here today! I have the dash top to finish today, then the new front seats and the new 3 point harness and then alll will be wright with the world.
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69pace
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 04:39:50 PM »

Good - glad you found it. Are you updating the style of the seats or going stock. Who's belts did you buy?
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 05:26:38 PM »

I put in the houndstooth from PUI and the 3 point GM clasp type both from ground up. I finished everything this afternoon though Im still waiting for the under hook amp wires.
With out a history, paperwork or past ownership I did all the reseach on this site and the car was either an SS or an LM one. I did find one past owner from the 80s' who told me it was mainly a drag car and was originally a big block column shift 3 speed. Like I said previously I dont care if it a frankinstein car it looks correct and I made it an SS. Ill post some pics on this site soon. Thanks for all your help.
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Rufcar
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 05:58:19 PM »

Interior pic with new console gauges, Tach, seats and dash pad.
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69pace
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 10:31:12 PM »

Looks good - nice job on the seats, did you job it out or tackle the upholstery yourself?
If it was a BB the heater hoses would be the tell. Any under the hood pics to ponder?
If she is an SS in your mind and you are being correct on the details, then maybe you want to change the steering wheel emblem too from the bowtie to SS.
Nice job and I look forward to some pics and details.
Brian
 
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Rufcar
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 11:03:16 PM »

Yes Kurt helped me early on and the heater was previously replaced. I replaced the original 5 leaf springs as they were broken and the center pin was broken too. I also have the steel plate on the frame rail by rear tire. I even had the tank out and no lable there or in the seat springs. Id bet there have many engines and trannys in this car in its history too.
I have been thing about that SS emblem and I also like the teak wheel but the jurys still out!
I can do most anything but decided that at 750 each I bought the pre assambled seats! They fit and feel awsome! The tracks are not correct but other then 2 rear mounting holesin each not bad.
Today I ordered rear covers and rear belts. I was not going to do the rear but now the front looks so nice I decided to re do the rear.
Been trying to post other pics but my files are too big. Usually I just send the pics to my email and make them smaller but I am having trouble with email today. I 'll put some on tomorrow including and exterior shot. The car looks more like a Baldwin motion with the vette side pipes! Seriously loud and I love it! Thanks for all your help.
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Rufcar
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2013, 10:59:59 AM »

ext pic this summer after painting
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KERR
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2014, 02:14:16 PM »

looks good.

Im looking for info on installing a tach in mine and moving the fuel gauge for now..   I want the spedo, fuel, tach setup.

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69pace
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 03:07:30 PM »

looks good.

Im looking for info on installing a tach in mine and moving the fuel gauge for now..   I want the spedo, fuel, tach setup.



Very easy to accomplish in a weekend.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
BULLITT65
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2014, 04:26:26 PM »

looks good.

Im looking for info on installing a tach in mine and moving the fuel gauge for now..   I want the spedo, fuel, tach setup.



Very easy to accomplish in a weekend.
And a cool look too!
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
KERR
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2014, 10:40:45 AM »

also guess i need to switch out the steering column,   

At some point i want to go to a manual.  some one has already switched to a crap shifter on the floor but left the column shift in R i guess so the back up lights work... 

I just need to hit the lotor then order everything at once!
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Rufcar
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2014, 11:40:49 AM »

KERR my 69 was born as a column shift 350 and they removed the switch and associated parts but left the gear selector arm on the column on the engine side where it's really hard to see. They must have used a sleeve to cover the column where the shifter was. I had the car 5 months before I even knew that. That's an easy and inexpensive repair. Jim
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KERR
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2014, 04:39:38 PM »

At this point i think im just going to go with a 4L80e,   main reason is i have one,  and ive also got a 8.1L in the garage that needs a set of pistons,  ( bad gas big turbo it went boom)  and a turbo kit.   it lived 3 years on my suburban and be real nasty in a car..   I guess i need to research and see what will work the best..  a nos column for a th400 linked up the 4l80E would be kinda nice...     I want to have it all stock looking except under the hood...   i dont know a way to make a fuel injected motor and turbo look original Wink

So either find a kit to make the column shifter work by changing it something not powerglide,   or see if there is a way to make a manual looking shifter work.  but dont want the console if i go that way... i like the look of the sifter and boot only in the floor.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 04:56:45 PM by KERR » Logged
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