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Author Topic: new restoration endevour  (Read 4300 times)
g8ts
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« on: November 01, 2013, 07:39:25 PM »

Hello all...new to the site picked up a little gem to keep me busy over the winter months...well maybe a few Years but start over the winter. Local car, original owner,pop card included. Actually rode in this car in 1969, Sat in a garage since 1977 when I pulled her out. Great site and lots of knowledgeable folks hope to have a few questions in the future. First question is the back dash really card board and although solid, discolored and stained...refinish or replace?
Thanks,
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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 11:14:01 PM »

If you're speaking of the rear package shelf, it is a card board type material; depending on your level of desired restoration, either replace it with NOS (they show up regularly on eBay - where I sold mine a couple of years' back), or purchase a quality repop, of which there are several manufacturers to choose from. Those things usually get pretty warped, stained and come apart - I don't know of anyone who could restore one. Be sure to get the one with the front padding attached, as originals were.

Great looking Z, by the way - gotta love those hidden gems and the resurrection from Garage Purgatory. Keep us all informed on your progress -

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 10:07:13 AM »

Nice score. That looks like a really solid car to start with. Good luck with the project I will be following along with you.
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janobyte
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 02:03:03 PM »

I agree, looks like a great solid car plus you have history with it. Wonderful combination. Post your pics and might as well doc your numbers as you go---everything. Not sure who keeps the data base on 69's ,someone should post shortly. I'm in the middle of mine with the thoughts " when it's done it's done "  Kid's in college so the Z is second priority. I can not think of a question you might have that is not posted here, have fun !
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ZLP955
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 11:13:12 PM »

Very nice find, glad to know they're still out there. Great color too. Question - if that's original paint, that car would be great left as a survivor, far better than just another restored Camaro......
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
g8ts
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 10:26:12 AM »

Started cleaning her up just to take inventory. The engine was pulled out in 1977 rebuilt and never put back in. All the parts where in a box or the trunk. Front glass cracked, frame in really nice shape a little surface rust and oil.Interior in really nice shape minus the dash pad that is not cracked but it seems over the years some kind of sticky goo dripped out of the cracked windshield and caused small bubbles all over. I'd love to keep as much of the original paint as possible the back wheel wells are the worst case scenario. If I cut it all out and tack in new sheet metal and repaint. Wouldn't it be hard then to keep the original patina look?
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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
cook_dw
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 10:38:05 AM »

That is a great looking car..  To be honest I would clean the snot out of that thing, replace whatever absolutely needed to be replaced and keep it original..  Survivor cars are becoming harder and harder to come buy and to me are worth more to keep them as they were and preserve them..  Great project regardless!!
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
g8ts
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 10:47:21 AM »

Her's a few pic's of the paint wiped down...Removed the seats little to no rust on floor boards... pic's coming soon.

Update: won't let me post pic's bigger then 400KB...more pic's after I get that sorted out.

Ordered a front end bushing kit and under the hood wiring harness today.
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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
x77-69z28
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 11:36:05 AM »

I love it! Great to see a flat hood on it. Great collar combo
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 11:44:05 AM »

Her's a few pic's of the paint wiped down...Removed the seats little to no rust on floor boards... pic's coming soon.

Update: won't let me post pic's bigger then 400KB...more pic's after I get that sorted out.

Ordered a front end bushing kit and under the hood wiring harness today.


Use photobucket to upload your pics & then link them here ..  It's free  & what I use.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 12:45:34 PM »

That is a great looking car..  To be honest I would clean the snot out of that thing, replace whatever absolutely needed to be replaced and keep it original..  Survivor cars are becoming harder and harder to come buy and to me are worth more to keep them as they were and preserve them..  Great project regardless!!
I agree, that is what I would do too.
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 02:09:23 PM »

I have to toss in my 3 cents worth too! Smiley      Clean and Preserve the car, but don't restore... and take LOTS of photos of every detail to record the originality..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 03:37:26 PM »

seems over the years some kind of sticky goo dripped out of the cracked windshield and caused small bubbles all over.
I have a '69 that has stood since the early 70's when the PO quit racing it, and the dash pad has started to ooze a thick liquid, which looks very much like what your dash picture shows..... the original material has started to degrade and that is what is running down the vertical dash pad face:
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
janobyte
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »

Darn , got tired of the imperfections and finally decided to pull the trigger on a paint job---guess I'm going to be stuck with "another" over restored ,low mileage ,numbers Z....

Seriously though , I have never seen the dashes weep. What kind of climate was the car stored in ?
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g8ts
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 06:03:11 AM »

I thought is was from the glass...the car was stored in an unheated garage, hot in the summer, cold in the winter...If I keep her as a survivor what do I do about the back wheel wells?
Here's a few photo bucket pic's. Thanks for the tip on photo bucket works a lot better.









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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
janobyte
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 07:22:39 AM »

Some guys will say leave it , "survivor"---I understand. If you try to repair , you will never blend the paint in without it showing. I had mine touched up for stone chips around 20 years ago---all I saw when the sun hit it. Many strong opinions but mine is fix it right. I hung my hat on original paint survivor for many years. Say what you will ,it is in a state of dis repair. But I guess one man's rust is another's "patina". Bottom line your call, if everyone felt the same every car in here would look the same.
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cook_dw
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2013, 09:21:02 AM »

How bad are the rear wheel wells?  If they are rusted bad then I would go ahead with a restoration..  But that is just me..  I havent seen the car in person so I can not say 100% what I would do.  Regardless you have a very nice starting point of an american classic.  In the end its your car and you can do what  you want and in the end whatever makes you happy is what counts..  Right!!??!!

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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 09:28:31 AM »

And, even if you decide to restore it, it would behoove you to take *hundreds* of photos of all the details, even the 'bad' parts, BEFORE you begin the restoration, to document the car prior to restoration.  you may think your car is 'bad' with the rust around the wheel wells, but compared to some of the 'restored' cars before they were restored, your car is extremely nice.. and that would make a big difference to me if I was looking for a restored Camaro!
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 01:54:04 PM »

Agree 100% of the fore mentioned--shoot pics of everything, and what you find under the paint---proof. We are at about 400 and counting ( they add up)! half are the painters.
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g8ts
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2013, 11:10:45 PM »

ok thanks for all the comments and reply's....my plan right now is to detail the interior and engine bay. I would absolutely love to keep her a survivor but the back wheel wells would be a problem (see pics).

They need to be totally cut out and replaced...If someone could give me some insight to ...if I do that can I match the paint ...aged survivor look...or have to re-paint the whole body. I would love to redo the wheels and buff and clean the rest and clear coat...I'd be good for another 20 yrs and in the end I am just preserving for the next owner anyways! In the meantime scrubbing cleaning..ordered windshield and engine bay wiring harness...pull front fenders, pull cracked windshield, grind and repaint...pic's to follow. The PO drove it year round so obviously winter salt rot...actually the inner wheel wells are in pretty good shape. Some kind of weather proof tar on inside.
Thanks again for comments...







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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
z28z11
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2013, 11:29:06 AM »

I believe I'd save as much of the original panels as I could, cut the rust out and replace it. It's only going to get worse - rust never sleeps - this car is a keeper in my estimation, so bite the bullet and get 'er done. I had the opportunity to work on a true survivor car several years back - there were some imperfections in the 100% original paint (quarter panel at the rear window scratches, front stripe, door stripe, front header panel) - a 7000 mile '68 SS 350/295, Corvette Bronze - the then-owner decided to touch it up, and it actually worked - you really could not see the areas that were repainted, the overall effect was outstanding. True, it should have been left alone, but the owner wanted perfection. Point is you can fix the issues without detracting from the car, and help preserve it for the years of enjoyment to come.

The rest of the story - fix was not cheap, $1100 in 1995. Painter was well renowned local guy, painted many of a local collector's Yenkos and others, one of the best I have seen. With color matching today as high tech as it is, color blending shouldn't be a concern if you use the right guy.

Just my 2 cents -

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
JKZ27
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2013, 02:28:37 PM »

I, too, have been asking the same questions of others, as well as myself, about what to do with this car needing similar work. I would certainly love to be cruising around in a fully restored and shiny silver 69 RS SS but, for me, the financial responsibility of a proper restoration and the upkeep afterwards is way too much right now. I love using the car...getting in it and driving it. I like the fact that it is an old used car that happens to be a cool Camaro. Rarely do you see a "beater" first gen on the road anymore. A car like this attracts a lot of attention too, mostly from other car enthusiasts...non enthusiasts don't really appreciate them. The question "Is it for sale?" is asked very often because, I guess, a car in this condition is viewed as obtainable...like, I'm not doing anything with it. Most, it seems, are "flippers" looking to make some cash.
The rust in various areas is getting to me and has to be dealt with. I'm struggling with this because it is sort of a "survivor" and I don't want to be just hanging new panels all over it because not only does it decrease its survivor value but is crosses that restoration line...(like, where do you stop?). Some have suggested that if I can't afford it I should sell it. Undecided In fact, most body shops I talked to had more interest in trying to buy the car from me than help me fix it. Recently, I've been in touch with a body man in my area (does some work for Ken Lucas) that understands my predicament and has expressed interest in fixing what I have and maintaining the appearance. I trust his knowledge of Camaro body work and he has an artistic eye for custom work that I think will be good for my application. I am an auto mechanic by trade so I'm able to do all "mechanical" work myself. Also, I am fortunate enough to own a 68 RS with a recent makeover and a few custom goodies which fulfill my shiny fast car fix. That has an influence on my decision to leave the 69 alone.
Regardless, this has been a tough decision for me to find a balance between whats right for the car (because I love Camaros and the hobby) and whats right for me financially and for my enjoyment. I think knowing what you want and what you will enjoy is the key. If you want a survivor, we will help and support you. If you want to take on a restoration, we will help and support you. Of course, you could throw that engine in there, cruise the countryside and think about it for a while. Smiley

John
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69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20
79 Z28 Brown LM1 M21
04 SRT 10
g8ts
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2013, 03:45:26 PM »

Quote: Of course, you could throw that engine in there, cruise the countryside and think about it for a while. Smiley

Best thing I've heard all day...she's a driving, survivor, work in progress !!! I want to get her on the road and just take my time and have some fun...would rather put money into a nice carb. and Mallory distributor right now.
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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
janobyte
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2013, 04:42:50 PM »

Hey ,you answered your own question " have some fun " After owning this car 25 years in March--my fun is learning to Phosphate ! Dad owned it 13 years before me so its been in my life for ever. Clean interior ,detailed engine compartment ,black out the rust with inhibitor, it really is a great looking car the way it sits---best part your name's on the title !  And I've posted " the build really never really ends "  And $$, I got a kid in college--does tend to slow progress down a bit ! Keep the pics coming.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2013, 06:53:28 PM »

Have fun with the car but as others have mentioned if you restore document everything.
Example of my documentation on our 68Z we have owned for over 30 years.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2013, 04:20:01 AM »

Quote: Of course, you could throw that engine in there, cruise the countryside and think about it for a while. Smiley

Best thing I've heard all day...she's a driving, survivor, work in progress !!! I want to get her on the road and just take my time and have some fun...would rather put money into a nice carb. and Mallory distributor right now.
X2!! (I also like the flat hood and color)
I think you'd have a smile from ear to ear just driving it as is.
My car is not a show car has rock chips and the like, the previous owner had some paint touched up in the rear quarters where the salt was starting to impact, like yours. The number of cars out there with mostly original paint I have to think is pretty low, and every time one of those gets restored/repainted it just means the originals are little bit more rare. Buff it out and detail as is, would be a cheap start, and awesome look.
Welcome to site & good luck with it!
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2013, 04:25:02 AM »

I, too, have been asking the same questions of others, as well as myself, about what to do with this car needing similar work. I would certainly love to be cruising around in a fully restored and shiny silver 69 RS SS but, for me, the financial responsibility of a proper restoration and the upkeep afterwards is way too much right now. I love using the car...getting in it and driving it. I like the fact that it is an old used car that happens to be a cool Camaro. Rarely do you see a "beater" first gen on the road anymore. A car like this attracts a lot of attention too, mostly from other car enthusiasts...non enthusiasts don't really appreciate them. The question "Is it for sale?" is asked very often because, I guess, a car in this condition is viewed as obtainable...like, I'm not doing anything with it. Most, it seems, are "flippers" looking to make some cash.
The rust in various areas is getting to me and has to be dealt with. I'm struggling with this because it is sort of a "survivor" and I don't want to be just hanging new panels all over it because not only does it decrease its survivor value but is crosses that restoration line...(like, where do you stop?). Some have suggested that if I can't afford it I should sell it. Undecided In fact, most body shops I talked to had more interest in trying to buy the car from me than help me fix it. Recently, I've been in touch with a body man in my area (does some work for Ken Lucas) that understands my predicament and has expressed interest in fixing what I have and maintaining the appearance. I trust his knowledge of Camaro body work and he has an artistic eye for custom work that I think will be good for my application. I am an auto mechanic by trade so I'm able to do all "mechanical" work myself. Also, I am fortunate enough to own a 68 RS with a recent makeover and a few custom goodies which fulfill my shiny fast car fix. That has an influence on my decision to leave the 69 alone.
Regardless, this has been a tough decision for me to find a balance between whats right for the car (because I love Camaros and the hobby) and whats right for me financially and for my enjoyment. I think knowing what you want and what you will enjoy is the key. If you want a survivor, we will help and support you. If you want to take on a restoration, we will help and support you. Of course, you could throw that engine in there, cruise the countryside and think about it for a while. Smiley

John
Hey John I would like to see more pics of your car as well, start a new post for those of us that are fans of " the unrestored" to see some pics please  Grin
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2013, 08:41:02 AM »

I second that. I would love to see as many pictures of both unrestored cars as you both would be so kind to post. I love these unrestored cars!
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »

My thought is that neither one of the cars pictured in this post look like they have "SURVIVED" anything. I think that these cars can be repainted and reconditioned at a fraction of the cost of complete restorations and the owners shouldn't feel bad rehabbing them. In fact they should feel good about improving the car's quality of life.
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 07:07:21 PM »

I would respectfully disagree: they have both survived numerous decades of weather and good/bad storage and still retain 95% or more of their original paint, and it appears most of the interior sheet metal also survived and possibly a lot of the upholstery. The other aspect to consider is both of these cars have survived their owners instincts to take advice from others to repaint or restore. IMO it is examples such as these that give the rest of us a clear "picture" of how the car left the factory, and works as a guide for all those restoring cars what would have been correct. (colors, fitment, part numbers etc)
I wouldn't say anyone is trying to make a fellow CRG member feel bad, we are (as you are) just giving friendly advice.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
g8ts
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« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2013, 11:35:46 PM »

I am going if anyone else is there say HELLO...

http://www.mcacn.com/index.htm

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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
Azure1969Z/28
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2013, 12:28:33 PM »

OK, My late father purchased this Jimmy new in 1954 (55 1st series) He drove it daily for 30 years and put over 500,000 mile on it. (still retains the original speedo which was still working at last drive)

It had the motor R&R twice the tranny replaced and rebuilt once and the rear end replaced once. Always retained the 6 volt electrical system and has never had a body panel replaces or repainted.

Then the GMC became a victim of poor storage Sad

Is this a SURVIVOR ? just curious.
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Azure1969Z/28
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2013, 12:31:24 PM »

Or how 'bout this one  Cheesy!!! Have a great Thanksgiving all.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2013, 02:24:04 PM »

I t
OK, My late father purchased this Jimmy new in 1954 (55 1st series) He drove it daily for 30 years and put over 500,000 mile on it. (still retains the original speedo which was still working at last drive)

It had the motor R&R twice the tranny replaced and rebuilt once and the rear end replaced once. Always retained the 6 volt electrical system and has never had a body panel replaces or repainted.

Then the GMC became a victim of poor storage Sad

Is this a SURVIVOR ? just curious.

I think that is one you need to restore, or at least make functional, preserve it, and drive it..  in the name of your father..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Azure1969Z/28
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »

I t
OK, My late father purchased this Jimmy new in 1954 (55 1st series) He drove it daily for 30 years and put over 500,000 mile on it. (still retains the original speedo which was still working at last drive)

It had the motor R&R twice the tranny replaced and rebuilt once and the rear end replaced once. Always retained the 6 volt electrical system and has never had a body panel replaces or repainted.

Then the GMC became a victim of poor storage Sad

Is this a SURVIVOR ? just curious.

I think that is one you need to restore, or at least make functional, preserve it, and drive it..  in the name of your father..  Smiley
Thank you I appreciate you reply. We will start w/ function and then paint and drive my son wants to drive it so I have built in help. But what about my old Tonka Truck?
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« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2013, 10:18:14 PM »

it's an heirloom best to let the next generation decide. cool survivor / barn find section at the hot rod show today.... 


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1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2013, 07:39:37 PM »

It looks like the whole cab was painted white. Does it appear as though the original dark blue is over the white?
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »

Well here's a few picks ... everyone likes pic's!

This is what we have to start with,



Here is how the engines is going,



a few numbers,







Trans cleaning up well, light cleaner and elbow grease, not sure if it has ever been out all the bolts look untouched







Anyone ever see these three lines on the side of a trans case before?



Trying a little anti-rust solution, I'll let you know how it turns out,





ok over the Hill and through the woods for Thanksgiving, YOU ALL have a nice Thanksgiving...Be safe!





« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 02:54:47 PM by g8ts » Logged

1969 Z28 X33 Rally Green black stripes
mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2013, 05:17:58 PM »

Are you using lye for the solution? In not then what?
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67 RS Ragtop
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2013, 06:21:07 PM »

Looks like Evap-o-rust to me.
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Azure1969Z/28
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2013, 06:36:34 PM »

It looks like the whole cab was painted white. Does it appear as though the original dark blue is over the white?
yep the entire cab and doors were white (the original top color) w/ the blue over that.The rest of the panels are the blue painted over black primmer. Seems odd but that's how they did it.
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