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Author Topic: goodyear polyglas tires  (Read 4886 times)
camaroman1969
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« on: October 20, 2013, 02:21:37 PM »

Hello everyone!!!   I have a issue with a set of goodyear polyglas tires I bought new from Kelsey tire.  When on the open road, car want to track left to right.  It seems its wanting to follow cracks in the road.  Any input would be helpful from this site.  I've had a guy tell me it the tire design.  These tires have a "square" edge not "round" like a radial tire.  thanks!      Don
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 05:05:48 PM »

that's one of the 'characteristics' of bias belted tires...      Fun huh?  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 05:27:23 PM »

Try tightening up the steering box. I did and it really helped
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Danny
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2013, 05:35:58 PM »

Try tightening up the steering box. I did and it really helped
X2... and alignment?
Were the alignment specs for your bias belted tires followed when the tires were put on the car? Toe-in?
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Phillip
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camaroman1969
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 07:33:53 PM »

Try tightening up the steering box. I did and it really helped
X2... and alignment?
Were the alignment specs for your bias belted tires followed when the tires were put on the car? Toe-in?
Thank you for the reply..  My Camaro had a alignment after car was frame-off restored.  Then came the goodyear tires.  I've never heard of "alignment specs" for goodyear polyglas tires. Can you give me anymore info on this matter??  Trying to resolve this issue with the car, because its not safe at high speeds.  Thanks!     Don
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Sauron327
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 09:37:51 PM »

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3913.0  
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4656.0

Did the people you had rebuild your car drop it on it's feet before tightening all the suspension bolts?

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camaroman1969
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 11:50:57 AM »

Don't know what you mean by that.....please explain further.        Don
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3913.0   
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4656.0

Did the people you had rebuild your car drop it on it's feet before tightening all the suspension bolts?


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camaroman1969
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 11:56:25 AM »

Hi again!  I've never heard of "alignment specs" for these tires. Could you explain further please???  Don
Try tightening up the steering box. I did and it really helped
X2... and alignment?
Were the alignment specs for your bias belted tires followed when the tires were put on the car? Toe-in?
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camaroman1969
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 12:00:01 PM »

How bad does your car wander on this rubber???
that's one of the 'characteristics' of bias belted tires...      Fun huh?  Smiley
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 12:11:44 PM »

How bad does your car wander on this rubber???
that's one of the 'characteristics' of bias belted tires...      Fun huh?  Smiley
I don't have bias belted on my Camaro, but I have other cars (older) with bias belted, and when I changed from Michelin radial X's to the repro bias belted on my '57 Bel Air.  it was like a different car.  I don't drive it nearly as much anymore..  I'd recommend a nice radial tire if you are going to drive your car.. The advent of radial tires was maybe more significant than modern brakes on the 'handling/safety' of cars..
biasbelts track grooves in the road, and if there's no grooves, they will find 'something' to track on .. Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 12:56:32 PM »

You would want the full weight of the car on the suspension before the upper and lower control arm bolts are tightened. There are serrations on the ends of the bushings that will bite in place when the bolts are tightened.

After my frame off, where everything is tight and aligned right. Using the Goodyear’s, you kind travel in the general direction of where the front end is pointed. It certainly not like any new car of today but that is the fun part of driving a car that is 44 years old.

Mike
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Mike S
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 01:10:52 PM »

 If I recall the earlier alignment specs, there should be a certain amount of toe-in so when the car moves forward the road will force it outwards to take up any minor play in the steering. If the toe in/out is perfect then the steering can be prone to wandering, which what it sounds like you are experiencing.

Mike
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 02:32:45 PM »

If I recall the earlier alignment specs, there should be a certain amount of toe-in so when the car moves forward the road will force it outwards to take up any minor play in the steering. If the toe in/out is perfect then the steering can be prone to wandering, which what it sounds like you are experiencing.
Mike
X2
Don, sorry to be slow to respond, but I'm still having to work for a living.  What Mike said is exactly what I was "taught" back in the day.  (Thanks, Mike! Your explanation is a whole lot clearer than what I was told in 1965...)  I'm old enough to have driven several different cars on bias belted tires.  They did not wander all that much with a little toe-in setting. 
The alignment "specs" are actually for the car.  As for tracking, the alignment was considered "correct" if they did track just a little to the right (outward).  Or, again, that's what I was told the first time I went to buy a set of tires on my own.  I did wonder at the time, if the English aligned so that they tracked to the left...  Huh
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Phillip
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camaroman1969
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 02:53:03 PM »

Mike, Thanks for taking the time to explain.  Some guys say "steering box" are "loose".  Rebuilders now use "Firm Feel" internals.  Don
If I recall the earlier alignment specs, there should be a certain amount of toe-in so when the car moves forward the road will force it outwards to take up any minor play in the steering. If the toe in/out is perfect then the steering can be prone to wandering, which what it sounds like you are experiencing.

Mike
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janobyte
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 03:26:07 PM »

The "alignment specs" are in the build book 67/68. If someone has a 69 maybe they can post a copy for him. And wow ,I have not heard about tracking to the right in years ! Did hear it however--- " would keep you from drifting left of center"  maybe an urban legend.
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Steve68
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 03:34:23 PM »

Quote
As for tracking, the alignment was considered "correct" if they did track just a little to the right (outward).

When I was 18 (long long long time ago and pre radial tires)  Smiley my dad told me the same thing when I told him the car seemed to go right if you let go of the wheel.  He said that it was a done so if people went to sleep it would help avoid a head on collision.
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BULLITT65
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 09:04:01 PM »

I have had radial and bias ply tires on my Camaros, Mustangs and Impala, the radials are nice and have less friction going down the road. The bias ply IMO look period correct,( which I really like the squared off tire look), but tend to track a differently than the radials. I don't drive my vehicles often enough for it to bug me, if I drove them more often and on roads that had many cracks it may influence my decision making for what tires I would run. Also at this point with how expensive tires have gotten they would also factor in now a days.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2013, 06:26:07 AM »

I think the "drifting to the right" is from back in the day when most roads were two lane with a crown in the center to drain off water. Four and more lanes today don't have a crown, think a banked NASCAR track. The book settings are from 1969, a good alignment guy should be able to recommend settings that will work with your car on todays roads.

In my previous post I didn't mean to imply my car is all over the road, just not as precise as todays cars with radial tires. It is still way fun to drive...

Mike
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JohnZ
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2013, 10:21:53 AM »

I think the "drifting to the right" is from back in the day when most roads were two lane with a crown in the center to drain off water. Four and more lanes today don't have a crown, think a banked NASCAR track. The book settings are from 1969, a good alignment guy should be able to recommend settings that will work with your car on todays roads.

In my previous post I didn't mean to imply my car is all over the road, just not as precise as todays cars with radial tires. It is still way fun to drive...

Mike

Bias-Ply tires need the toe-in settings shown in the Assembly Manual and the Chassis Service Manual; radials want zero-to-1/16" TOTAL toe-in. If you run the radial settings with bias-ply tires, you'll need constant steering corrections (even more than you require with bias-ply settings).
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 11:00:14 PM »

My favorite tire on my Z was always the Goodyear Polyglas. The pic attached may be hard to see, but the tires are H60-15 and F70-15 Goodboots on the factory YH rims - these tires were on the car from '76 until a couple of years ago, when I finally sold them at the local auto flea market. Yes, they were a handful to drive, but a cooler tire never lived. Trips to the local 25 cent car wash always included a Brillo pad to clean the letters with -

Bias ply tires generally follow the ruts that are really on any road, interstates included. Ever notice how you can hydroplane easier in the right lane at speed on an interstate ? It's because of the slight depressions from trucks and heavy traffic in that lane, constantly, that funnel water in the lane, causing it to puddle and wedge under the tires. Radials resist it better, but bias ply builds are more sensitive to changes in the road surface. Couple that with manual steering, quick ratio, and these things were a challenge to drive - but I still love them (for the look !).

Driving my Pace Car home after purchase, some 125 miles in several July thunderstorms, was downright horrendous after so many years of radial tire equipped company vehicles (at high speeds). Car was all over the road, darting everywhere, hydroplaning, and drifting from side to side. First purchase after I got it home was a set of B.F. Goodrich Radial T/A's, which dramatically cured the ills noted on the ride home. I resolved never to run bias plies on the street, but as a show tire Goodyears still have the charisma.

Shame that Goodyear can't build a radial that looks like a Polyglas GT or Wide Tread GT of old -
 
Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2013, 11:12:38 PM »

No - this is not a right hand drive export Z28. The local photo shop was kind enough to reverse the field when they copied the slide - it's backwards.

Don't worry about the vintage '70's outside rear view mirrors - they are long gone, as are the traction bars. Pic was taken circa '76. Glad I didn't include the vintage mods I was gonna make - aftermarket T tops, lowered, black and gold paint scheme ala The Bandit. CB radio is long gone, too -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2013, 11:39:09 PM »

If those tires were on your car since 76 and then you went and sold them at the flea market, it is safe to say you got your money out of those tires! The car looks great in that photo.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2013, 06:56:43 AM »

Since a couple of years I drive my 69 with Good Year Polyglas without any problems at all!   Roll Eyes
It's H70-14 in the rear and F70-14 in the front!  Could it be that I lowered  the car app. 2" with Hotchkis sport leaf in the rear and front that makes it works so fine??

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camaroman1969
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2013, 07:03:59 PM »

Steve, Thanks for the info....Don
My favorite tire on my Z was always the Goodyear Polyglas. The pic attached may be hard to see, but the tires are H60-15 and F70-15 Goodboots on the factory YH rims - these tires were on the car from '76 until a couple of years ago, when I finally sold them at the local auto flea market. Yes, they were a handful to drive, but a cooler tire never lived. Trips to the local 25 cent car wash always included a Brillo pad to clean the letters with -

Bias ply tires generally follow the ruts that are really on any road, interstates included. Ever notice how you can hydroplane easier in the right lane at speed on an interstate ? It's because of the slight depressions from trucks and heavy traffic in that lane, constantly, that funnel water in the lane, causing it to puddle and wedge under the tires. Radials resist it better, but bias ply builds are more sensitive to changes in the road surface. Couple that with manual steering, quick ratio, and these things were a challenge to drive - but I still love them (for the look !).

Driving my Pace Car home after purchase, some 125 miles in several July thunderstorms, was downright horrendous after so many years of radial tire equipped company vehicles (at high speeds). Car was all over the road, darting everywhere, hydroplaning, and drifting from side to side. First purchase after I got it home was a set of B.F. Goodrich Radial T/A's, which dramatically cured the ills noted on the ride home. I resolved never to run bias plies on the street, but as a show tire Goodyears still have the charisma.

Shame that Goodyear can't build a radial that looks like a Polyglas GT or Wide Tread GT of old -
 
Regards,
Steve
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jeff68
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2013, 08:02:33 PM »

Don-
Here is some good info on alignment with the Polyglas tires:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=193367

Although I was asking about info for my 68, your 69 should be similar.  I followed David Pozzi's alignment recommendations and my car drives very nicely with Polyglas F70-14s all the way around.  No 'wander' or 'pull' at all.  My car has all new suspension bushings, and the suspension bolts were all tightened to factory specs after the suspension settled.
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camaroman1969
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2013, 07:09:30 PM »

Jeff, I will try these recommedation for proper alignment for Goodyear polyglas tires.  My biggest concern is at higher speeds.  Thanks for your input on this matter.    Don
Don-
Here is some good info on alignment with the Polyglas tires:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=193367

Although I was asking about info for my 68, your 69 should be similar.  I followed David Pozzi's alignment recommendations and my car drives very nicely with Polyglas F70-14s all the way around.  No 'wander' or 'pull' at all.  My car has all new suspension bushings, and the suspension bolts were all tightened to factory specs after the suspension settled.
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