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Author Topic: Original Hurst Shifter or Not  (Read 4120 times)
Vince
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« on: October 17, 2013, 12:47:34 PM »

I am trying to determine if the Hurst shifter in my '69 Z/28 is the original one that came from the factory or not.  The handle is riveted to the shifter rather than bolted.  On the shifter it says:  Hurst Competition/Plus, has a number, 128D11C stamped on it, and the following US patent number, 3216274, also stamped on it.  I am thinking that this is not an original shifter that was installed at the factory but would like to know for sure.  Thank you. 
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cook_dw
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 03:26:24 PM »

That doesnt sound like an original..  Post a pic to be 100% but the shifter handle actually slips into the shifter mech and locks in.  It would only say Hurst on the sides.

Is your handle rounded or square?
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 04:25:42 PM »

Rounded or squared, I'm not so sure that is the game changer, I have a 1969 vintage Comp + in the box (new and complete) and the handle is the rounded type, but uses two bolts to fasten to the shifter. No GM part number.
     VT
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 04:42:52 PM »

Rounded or squared, I'm not so sure that is the game changer, I have a 1969 vintage Comp + in the box (new and complete) and the handle is the rounded type, but uses two bolts to fasten to the shifter. No GM part number.
     VT

I wasn't meaning for that to sound like a " game changer".  I also stated that originals slipped in  & locked .  I'm merely asking general questions about the shifter in question..   Wink
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Darrell Cook

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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 06:11:48 PM »

The original hurst shifter part number is 5325 and is stamped at the bottom . It should be a rounded handle thats says "HURST" on the side. Similar to this one in this auction:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1969-CAMARO-Z28-FIREBIRD-HURST-4SP-SHIFTER-5325-HANDLE-3138-BASE-GM-ORIG-/400286500818?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d32ef47d2&vxp=mtr
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ss jim
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 07:40:02 AM »

Vince, I have two factory '69 shifters with nomenclature similar to the one you have. The sticks are round with "Hurst" stamped on them and are held in by locking shims. There are no adjustment bolts for 3rd and 4th gear stops and no bushings where the linkage attaches only rubber bonded to the levers. Hope this helps. Jim
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Vince
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 06:53:17 PM »

Thanks for all your info guys.  It appears my shifter is original.  I said that the handle was riveted to the shifter, but it does look more like a shim on each side that locks in and holds the handle on.  The handle is round except for the flat part where the word HURST is on each side.  Here are some photos, hope this helps.     
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Vince
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »

Another pic.
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Vince
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 06:56:32 PM »

And another.
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Vince
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 06:57:33 PM »

Another.
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Vince
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 06:58:08 PM »

Last one.
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paceme
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 10:15:42 PM »

Your shifter was manufacture Dec of 68.i
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Steve Shauger
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 11:36:09 PM »

Steve,

Is it the code there at the bottom of this extracted image that decodes to Dec '68?   Can you explain that, as I didn't know there was a date code for these shifters..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 07:50:41 AM »

Steve,

Is it the code there at the bottom of this extracted image that decodes to Dec '68?   Can you explain that, as I didn't know there was a date code for these shifters..

X2
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Donny
Vince
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 05:56:27 PM »

A Dec. of '68 date code would line up with it being original to my 01C car. 
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maroman
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2013, 06:06:34 PM »

Steve,

Is it the code there at the bottom of this extracted image that decodes to Dec '68?   Can you explain that, as I didn't know there was a date code for these shifters..

X2
Are all Hurst shifters dated?
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Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new
paceme
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2013, 06:54:36 PM »

Steve,

Is it the code there at the bottom of this extracted image that decodes to Dec '68?   Can you explain that, as I didn't know there was a date code for these shifters..

Yes the 128 represent the build date of the shifter
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Steve Shauger
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2013, 10:26:51 PM »

I just checked my shifter from my 09C Z28, and found the numbers "890731C", so the '8' the month (August), and '9' the year  matches up with my Sept produced car.   I've never known that Hurst shifters were dated.  I knew mine was the original one, but didn't know this particular date code schema..

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
DT
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2013, 09:20:28 AM »

I'm still NOT convinced they are date coded??  Maybe the experts can add to this???   I'm pretty sure I read the shifters where not date coded as well, Hmmm interesting.
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Donny
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2013, 10:26:48 AM »

If enough people with original cars/shifters can check/post the code from their shifter as well as their car's build date, maybe we can make some sense of this...  empirically  even if it isn't documented somewhere...?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2013, 10:34:26 AM »

In searching for 'date coded GM Hurst shifters', I found the following reference from 3/24/05 on the Supercar Registry:  (from hotrodpaul...
"I need help with the datecode on my 69 Camaro SS 396 Hurst Shifter. It looks to be original with the 3138 number stamped on the side, rubber molded inserts where the rods attach, Chrome round shift handle, etc. The date code reads "39D12K" and the car was assembled in late April. I assume the 9 means 1969, D is April, and 12 is the 12th day, but what does the "3" and "K" mean? I can post pics if needed."

Using the decode schema provided by PaceMe (Steve S) ie. "MmYxxxxx", hotrodPaul's codes translate to:  March, 69..   which is again consistent with the build date of the car (April car, March shifter).

So far, the examples that have been posted are consistent with his schema....
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2013, 10:48:06 AM »

'continuing the search'...   69Znut, on Team Camaro on April 11, 2008, had a very involved posting on Hurst shifters..

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54774

which will enlighten most of us to some extent if you haven't read it before, and in that posting, he states
"A serial number on the far right of the words HURST Competition Plus was used to perform factory warranty repairs for GM, Pontiac, America Motors (Javelin & AMX) and early 1970 Mustang & Torino’s all used this 3138 housing box. The serial number has no meaning today and is NOT a date code. "

BUT.. his statement that the SN is not a date code, does NOT mean that the initial digits do not imply month and year of production, as that information IS sometimes embedded into manufacturer's serial numbers, and thus far with the examples we've checked this has proven to be true..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2013, 10:53:33 AM »

I have a shifter pulled from an 03D Los Angeles car on my desk right now, and it is stamped '29D29C' which would make it a February 1969 shifter body on a March-assembled car, if the above is correct.
I will have to go and check the numbers on my 04A car's shifter, I believe it starts with '39' but can't recall for sure.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2013, 11:04:48 AM »

'continuing the search'...   69Znut, on Team Camaro on April 11, 2008, had a very involved posting on Hurst shifters..

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54774

which will enlighten most of us to some extent if you haven't read it before, and in that posting, he states
"A serial number on the far right of the words HURST Competition Plus was used to perform factory warranty repairs for GM, Pontiac, America Motors (Javelin & AMX) and early 1970 Mustang & Torino’s all used this 3138 housing box. The serial number has no meaning today and is NOT a date code. "

BUT.. his statement that the SN is not a date code, does NOT mean that the initial digits do not imply month and year of production, as that information IS sometimes embedded into manufacturer's serial numbers, and thus far with the examples we've checked this has proven to be true..

I think this is the thread I read sometime ago.  Great info thx.
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Donny
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2013, 11:08:18 AM »

Continuing the search....  
...  a long thread on 'Nasty Z28' from 2009, which also supports that Hurst's ID codes contained date information:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-157641.html

After all this, I'm convinced that the Hurst ID/SN codes Did contain date information.. All we need to totally document this is written documentation (or ?) from Hurst during that period...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
paceme
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2013, 03:07:14 PM »

I just checked my shifter from my 09C Z28, and found the numbers "890731C", so the '8' the month (August), and '9' the year  matches up with my Sept produced car.   I've never known that Hurst shifters were dated.  I knew mine was the original one, but didn't know this particular date code schema..

Gary

Gary , I verified the dating format on 6 unrestored cars I've owned and they have correlated to the build date of the cars perfectly.  In fact our twin sept built orange /black z's mine buit 9A has 89 dated
Shifter as well. I confirmed this when I freshened the drivetrain this spring. I have picture somewhere.

I'm confident that the shifters were date coded as shown in the examples
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Steve Shauger
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2013, 04:55:49 PM »

I'm confident as well Steve, after doing some research this morning.. Smiley   It would be *nice* to know the entire format, but I am confident that the first 2 (or 3) digits specify mo/yr...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2013, 07:27:09 PM »

I will have to go and check the numbers on my 04A car's shifter, I believe it starts with '39' but can't recall for sure.
Just checked shifter from my 04A car and it is 29D33D, so looks like both it and the 03D car (29D29C stamp) had February shifter bodies.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2013, 07:28:45 PM »

Pete Serio has a book on "Vintage Hurst Shifters", that has a lot of good info. He also does real nice shifter rebuilding. Although his book states there is no date coding on the housing, I'm still convince there is based on what I've observed. I'll qualify that to 69 & 70 OEM shifters.
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Steve Shauger
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »

Pete restored my original shifter.  Great job.   So here we go,  Date code or no???  Going against what Pete believes Huh   We are back to square one. LOL
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Donny
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« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2013, 11:08:46 PM »

I do not agree that we are 'back to square one'.  I believe we've confirmed that Mr Serio is correct (NO DATE CODE, per se), BUT.. we've also learned empirically that the ID code/SN has a month/year encoded into the SN...  which serves the same purpose for us. Smiley
A 'date code' is a marking put on a part purely to record the actual date (time/shift/etc) without any other purpose.    The Hurst ID/Serial number code has multiple pieces of information in it, some of which we do not know, but we've pretty conclusively shown that there is a month and year encoded as part of this SN.   But I doubt they did it just so we could demonstrate originality to a car 44 years later..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
DT
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2013, 03:14:21 PM »

I do not agree that we are 'back to square one'.  I believe we've confirmed that Mr Serio is correct (NO DATE CODE, per se), BUT.. we've also learned empirically that the ID code/SN has a month/year encoded into the SN...  which serves the same purpose for us. Smiley
A 'date code' is a marking put on a part purely to record the actual date (time/shift/etc) without any other purpose.    The Hurst ID/Serial number code has multiple pieces of information in it, some of which we do not know, but we've pretty conclusively shown that there is a month and year encoded as part of this SN.   But I doubt they did it just so we could demonstrate originality to a car 44 years later..  Smiley
You do make a valid point.
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Donny
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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2013, 03:46:56 PM »

Here's my 10B Oct 68 Shifter. Only 3 characters?
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2013, 09:43:09 AM »

yes they are date coded , I have a page full of dates I collected over many years of buying Camaro shifters

the 68 69 Firebird used the same shifter but a different date code
Camaro used 6 or 7 characters
Pontaic 4 or 5  characters  on GTO and Firebird Hurst shifters

there were also replacement shifter and those codes don't fall in with the assembly line shifters

common 69 camaro examples are 29D21C  feb 1969, 108D41C Oct 1968

68 69 Firbird example 88D4 Aug 1968 , 98B5 Sep 1968
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SgtHawkUSMC
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2014, 11:52:33 AM »

Another one to add to the mix for you... Jan 69. Not original to my car though. Recognize it Gary? lol

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Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS Hugger Orange
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2014, 12:29:18 PM »

Another one to add to the mix for you... Jan 69. Not original to my car though. Recognize it Gary? lol

Smiley  Is that the one I traded you a year or so ago?   I bought that unit in Atlanta at a Classic Chevy Meet in the late '70's or early '80's.. and I didn't know the code to determine date at the time I traded it to you..   that's been a later point of knowledge for me (learned here on CRG a few months ago.. Smiley

Did you ever find someone to trade you the BB rods for the SB rods that were with it?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2014, 03:09:07 PM »

That's
Another one to add to the mix for you... Jan 69. Not original to my car though. Recognize it Gary? lol

Smiley  Is that the one I traded you a year or so ago?   I bought that unit in Atlanta at a Classic Chevy Meet in the late '70's or early '80's.. and I didn't know the code to determine date at the time I traded it to you..   that's been a later point of knowledge for me (learned here on CRG a few months ago.. Smiley

Did you ever find someone to trade you the BB rods for the SB rods that were with it?
That's the one Gary. I haven't tried trading or selling the rods yet. I just put them away for a later date when I come across someone that might be interested in them.
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Hawk
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