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Author Topic: Do we have a real SS in the garage?  (Read 2705 times)
chris69ssx11
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« on: October 13, 2013, 10:45:50 PM »

Hi,

We purchased a 1969 Camaro off of eBay about two months ago... from all indications it appears to be a SS after reviewing the info on CRC?
Here's the specs, vin number and cowl tag info... is this a true SS?  any help or insight would be appreciated... thanks.

Specs...
350 small block, M-21 Muncie 4-speed, 12 bolt posi, multileaf springs, power front disc with rear drum brakes, power steering, center console with factory gauges, in dash 7k tachometer w/55k RPM red line, 2" cowl induction hood, dual fuel lines (primary with vapor return).
Note: The motor has been replaced with a zz4 crate engine with aluminum angle plug heads... don't know if the original motor was a small block or big block... the car sits a little high in the front so maybe the front coils were to support a big block?

Vin number...  124379N598xxx

Cowl tag info... ST 69 12437 NOR259593BDY
                         TR 723                   59 59 PNT
                              02B                   X11

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jack92584
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 11:18:41 PM »

Might be an ss350 but with x11 cant be a big block.
Read about x codes here http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#XnnCodes
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69 Z28 / Hugger Orange /  Deluxe Houndstooth  / M21 / 4:10 Posi / GM of Canada documented
BULLITT65
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 01:19:51 AM »

Did you get any documentation with the car? (p.o.p., original invoice?)
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
buenymayor
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 06:18:45 AM »

If you don't have any origianl paperwork for the car, get the partial VIN stamping off the transmssion and see if matches the last 6 digits of the VIN of the car. You might post a picture of the stamp so the experts can confirm whether or not is an origianl stamp, or restamped. If it matches your car, is an origiinal stamp, and is a Muncie, it sounds like it could be an SS.
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KurtS
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 11:23:03 AM »

1 or 2 fuel lines?
trans code?
axle code?
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Kurt S
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Mark
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 11:27:23 AM »

M21's didn't come in small block SS's, sure its not just an M20?
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 12:31:51 PM »

reinforcement plate for dual exhaust on rear driver side frame rail (in wheel well)  Huh?? 
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Donny
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 03:09:15 PM »

 Mark,
 What kind of 4 Speeds came in SS cars?
     VT
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05C LA RS/SS U2 712 L34 M21 BR
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 03:19:00 PM »

Small blocks got M20's, big blocks and Z28's got M20, M21, M22 depending on axle ratios. and engine combintations.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 11:01:23 PM »

Mark,
 What kind of 4 Speeds came in SS cars?
     VT
From http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml#4speed:
The wide-ratio Muncie M20 was available with any of the high-performance engines, except the L78 and Z28 in 67 only came with the M21. The M20 was the only 4-speed available with the SS350 and the SS396/325 hp (L35) engines.
The close-ratio M21 was available only with the SS396/350 hp (L34) engine and the solid lifter engines (Z28, L78, and COPO).
The heavy-duty M22 was limited to just the solid-lifter engines, starting in Camaros in 1968.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 11:43:22 PM »

Ok, what was the reasoning behind not having the M20 as an option on those? I was told on another thread that running the M20 actually gave you a lower 1st gear, to low for the big blocks, and they would just spin the tires and not be able to hook coming out of the hole?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
KurtS
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 10:28:31 PM »

Not following.
> The wide-ratio Muncie M20 was available with any of the high-performance engines (except in 67)
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Kurt S
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 11:45:35 PM »

ok I get it, why was the M21 only available with specific combos then?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
JKZ27
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 09:03:43 AM »

ok I get it, why was the M21 only available with specific combos then?

It had to do with rear axle ratio and an engine's useable RPM range.
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69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20
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04 SRT 10
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 12:35:57 AM »

Close-ratio is better when you want to be in the power band of the engine when you shift 3-4.
More important when racing, esp road-racing.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 03:57:48 AM »

That makes sense, I just didn't think there was a significant difference between the two transmissions. I know the gearing is different, just wasn't night and day for me when I have driven both. I understand what you are saying though when shifting you want one gear right on top of the other to stay in the power band.
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
bc69
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 09:14:29 PM »

Does the 2 Fuel line rule apply to also 7-8 ss's ?
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Brad
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 09:22:55 PM »

Does the 2 Fuel line rule apply to also 7-8 ss's ?

No.

Paul
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bc69
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 09:25:32 PM »

What does 68 have Paul?
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Brad
RSSS
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 09:29:39 PM »

It was my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong,  that all the solid lifter cars (L78, Z/28, COPO), received a single 3/8" fuel line and the other small and big block cars had two 5/16" lines. One fuel and 1 return.
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Eric

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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 09:34:34 PM »

What does 68 have Paul?

All 68 Camaros had a single fuel line.

Paul
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bc69
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 09:35:15 PM »

I always thought or understood if it had a 4bl q-jet it had 2
Lines. L48s and BB. All only in the SS's.  ??
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Brad
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 09:42:10 PM »

I always thought or understood if it had a 4bl q-jet it had 2
Lines. L48s and BB. All only in the SS's.  ??

Not in '68, single fuel line for all engines.

Paul
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little_hoss
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 09:49:01 PM »

Sorry, I was referring to 69's.  Roll Eyes
 
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Eric

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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2014, 09:54:05 PM »

It was my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong,  that all the solid lifter cars (L78, Z/28, COPO), received a single 3/8" fuel line and the other small and big block cars had two 5/16" lines. One fuel and 1 return.
Sorry, I was referring to 69's.  Roll Eyes
 

1969 only: All V8 cars received a single 3/8in fuel lines 6 cyl= 5/16in.single . All Q-jet equipped cars LM1, L48, L35, L34, had an extra 1/4 in return line
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Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 09:55:29 PM »

Sorry, I was referring to 69's.  Roll Eyes

Yes, in '69 all engines equipped with QuadraJet carburetors had two fuel lines.

Paul
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bc69
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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 09:57:26 PM »

I heard that the 4bl Q-jet had a perking problem that this helped to correct.
The needle/set/float could not hold the pressure and would flood or overfill
The vent relieved the pressures especially when hot.
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Brad
RSSS
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 10:06:30 PM »

It was my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong,  that all the solid lifter cars (L78, Z/28, COPO), received a single 3/8" fuel line and the other small and big block cars had two 5/16" lines. One fuel and 1 return.
Sorry, I was referring to 69's.  Roll Eyes
 

1969 only: All V8 cars received a single 3/8in fuel lines 6 cyl= 5/16in.single . All Q-jet equipped cars LM1, L48, L35, L34, had an extra 1/4 in return line
OK, thanks appreciate the information. I learn something new here everyday!
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Eric

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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 10:14:36 PM »

I heard that the 4bl Q-jet had a perking problem that this helped to correct.
The needle/set/float could not hold the pressure and would flood or overfill
The vent relieved the pressures especially when hot.

Here's JohnZ's explanation...

"Most Q-Jet applications use the fuel return line from the filter to ensure that there is no fuel pressure to the carb once the engine is shut off. Q-Jets depend on heavy fuel flow to keep the bowl full, as there's only one needle and seat feeding both the primaries and secondaries; they use a single large (.110"-.135") needle and seat, and with that much valve surface, it's hard for the float to keep the needle closed when fuel pressure between the pump and the carb rises due to underhood heat-soak after shutdown. Another issue to look for is if you use a windowed needle and seat like the stock GM one on the higher-performance Q-Jets, you should have the fuel filter with the check valve to prevent the fuel level from dropping in the bowl after shutdown; the "windows" are below normal fuel level, and as the fuel level drops and pressure rises as fuel evaporates, the needle and seat opens, and the fuel back-flows through the "window" and out through the return line. Then you have to crank and crank when you start it until the fuel level comes back up."

Paul
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