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Author Topic: December 68 Pacer on Ebay again.  (Read 1202 times)
DeanZ10
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« on: October 08, 2013, 10:34:16 AM »

Clear pics of the trim tag. What do you guys think??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OFFICIAL-1969-CAMARO-Z11-SS-RS-INDY-500-PACE-CAR-CONVERTIBLE-A-MUST-HAVE-/171142886048?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item27d8e932a0

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cook_dw
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 11:27:59 AM »

Nope.  Repo tag.
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
69pace
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 04:04:24 AM »

LOL and asking questions or posting comments on the ad are disabled
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
Charley
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 09:04:33 AM »

I am curious to see how the cruise control works with a 4 speed. The sad part is it is probably priced in the ballpark for what it really is. No need to to lie about it.
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69pace
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 10:37:51 AM »

In theory cruise control if set in fourth will return you to that speed. The only factory Pontiac I owned with cruise had two kill switches, clutch and brakes would disengage the system. If it is a hack job and since CC was not a factory option one wonders if the brake and clutch switches were installed.If cruise is set in fourth and you were able to shift with it still engaged you would blow the engine or over rev in neutral
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
sdkar
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 10:42:52 PM »

I contacted the seller and as politely as I could tell him, advised him that this was not a real Z11.  He replied and is adamant about this Camaro being a genuine Z11.  If someone buys this Camaro believing it to be a real Z11, and later finds out the real truth, he would have a successful lawsuit on his hands.  Here is the exchange:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
From: sdkarTo: themotormastersSubject: Other: sdkar sent a message about Chevrolet : Camaro Leather #171142886048Sent Date: Oct-09-13 09:55:33 PDT

Dear themotormasters,

Please, do not take this email in any negative fashion, but one of simply giving info of which you may or may not be aware.

This is not a real Z11. It is very nice, but it needs to be advertised as not a real Z11. I am a person who is an avid Camaro collector & in the legal field. I personally own a 69 pace car & I am quite familiar with them. If you sell this car without disclaiming it, you hold yourself out for liability. I have personally been involved in several suits in which dealers have sold cars as one thing, when they were in fact something else entirely. It cost the dealer quite a bit of money when all was done.

As a dealer, you are held to a higher standard, & even if you claim ignorance, you are still liable. Also, if the buyer is out of state, you can be hailed into the court of that state, not your own.

I say this to avoid an unhappy buyer, a fine seller of classics harmed, & the hobby exposed to bad reputations.

If you have any questions, please ask.
- sdkar   
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________                 
From: eBay Member: themotormasters <member@ebay.com>
To: sdkarebay@bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Other: sdkar sent a message about Chevrolet : Camaro Leather #171142886048
                       
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
Seller has responded to your question about this item   

Dear sdkar,

Hello and thank you for the email. I appreciate your concern and appreciate looking out for us as we are honest car dealers, but this is an actual Z11 Pace Car. The tag that is located on the firewall confirms this. Hagerty personally inspected and insured the car as proof, which was for $51575. I will email you the Hagerty report if you would like.

Philip
- themotormasters
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

sdkar response:
Philip,
 
I promise you, this car is fake.  The trim tag is an obvious fake.  I have over 500 documented 69 Camaro pace cars in my own data base, and there is not one single pace car prior to the third week of January.  If you want to know for sure this car is not a real Z11, I urge to contact Jerry MacNeish.  You can reach him by phone at (410) 781-0418.  His website is the following:
 
http://www.z28camaro.com/consvcs.html
 
I would not have written you if I was not sure.  Jerry MacNeish, in my opinion, is the absolute authority on first generation Camaros, and has been used in legal matters where no one can refute his opinion. In fact, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.  If you hire Jerry, and he states your car is a real Z11, I will pay his entire bill and give you $500 for your trouble.  That is how sure I am.
 
Again, your business and I will not tell a man how to run his own affairs.  I am simply trying to help avoid what could be a bad situation.  Also, I have found in my research, that this car has been flagged as a counterfeit in many of the camaro websites.  Thus, whoever buys this car is very likely to find out its true origin if they do even the slightest amount of research. 
 
Again, I am simply sharing with you, my knowledge.  What you do is your business. 
 
Take care.
 
Steve
 
 



 
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z28z11
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 11:38:34 PM »

Steve,

Over and above the call of duty here - what kind of doofus would stick to this line of reasoning after evidence and an offer like yours ?

By the way, the thing depresses me. My bubble has burst - I have always believed that Santa Claus was real, all RS/SS Pace Cars were equipped with 10 bolts like this one, and Anna Nicole married for love.

Regards (and my own opinions),
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
jims69
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 12:21:27 AM »

LOL.    After yesterday, I needed a good laugh.  E bay never fails to provide one.

Jim
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sdkar
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 02:24:23 AM »

As to one of your beliefs, Indy Pace Cars do have factory 10-bolts.  I am the second owner of my Indy Pace Car and it is numbers matching, and has the original 350/300hp "HE" engine (HE means 300hp with PG), a powerglide 2-speed transmission, and a 10-bolt 3:08 rear with posi (which I think is dealer installed as it's stamped PG, but also has the "D" for Dana stamp as well.  Why someone would equip a Camaro to this extent, but leave the 2-speed PG alone, I find amazing.  And of course, if you got the PG, the 10-bolt was standard for that transmission.  I have documented the partial VIN and date codes, and it's real.  So it's okay to believe, it's okay to believe, believe, believe...

To make up for it though, I have the very rare column shifter, no console, and shoulder belts.  (and by rare, I mean as it who in their right mind would order a combo like this?  No one...that's why it's rare...not for the good reason.
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z28z11
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »

Steve,

The logical answer to this would point to the fact you must have a 12A '68 Pace Car - then I could believe that, too -

Obviously kidding. My disclaimer to the '10 bolt' statement would be that all SS/RS Pace Cars had 10 bolts; fortunately mine does have a 12, 3.07 open, 350/350. Friend of mine owned a '68 SS 350/295 w/ 4400 miles a few years back, PG car with a 10 bolt - he thought the rear had been changed, but I guess that might fall under the same scenario.

You are correct on the legal issue - we had a local dealer sell a car (Mopar) a couple of years back, got sued from the out-of-state buyer, and lost his shirt because of it. It makes a lot more sense to do the right thing and walk the straight path than knowingly misrepresent a vehicle.

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
Mark
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 10:13:26 AM »

69 SS's with a powerglide transmission were normally equipped with 10 bolt axles as part of the standard package.  You  could get 12 bolts with a powerglide  if you ordered an optional gear ratio or posi unit that was not available in a 10 bolt configuration.  It's one of those 69 oddities that you could actually get a power glide with an SS, but you could.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
1968RSZ28
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 11:12:33 AM »

VIN: 124679N559423

August 2013 discussion...  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11166.0

Paul
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