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Author Topic: Racing AMX Information  (Read 13271 times)
SMKZ28
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« Reply #105 on: December 11, 2013, 02:20:18 PM »

Ok, I need some help from some of the other guys here. I've tracked down more information on the Dewar Javelin. Below is a picture of it attributed to St. Jovite, the week before Watkins Glen in '69. Now, here's where your assistance comes into play,  the same car can't be 2 cars at the same place at the same time. So, some better accounting than Racing Sportscars posts must be available. If it is not, then the # 47 Dewar car is the #4 Kaplan car in JNO Racing Enterprises Ltd.livery but is the 4 car. Yet separate references to the car, such as where I got the photo:http://kzmotorsports.com/911L-Race-History-Overview.html- photo 15, the car is referred
to, naturally, as the #47 Dewar Javelin. Yet, when one goes here:http://www.racingsportscars.com/type/results/AMC/Javelin.html and one goes to the 1969 results the connundrum presents itself. Check out the entries for the St.Jovite race on August 3rd of 1969 and then check out the entries listed for the Watkins Glen race on August 8th. See the problem? The discrepancy needs deconfliction.

Shadow Ahead,

The picture you posted of the Javelin and Porsche looks to have been one taken at the 1969 Watkins Glen Trans Am as Jon has mentioned.  It appears to have been taken by Dave Friedman and it is picture #72 of the Dave Friedman Collection at The Henry Ford: http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/magnify_popup.pl?imageID=178368&staticImage=C&ckon=image&alt=0

If you have not seen them, there are lots of other pictures of this particular Javelin as well as the others that participated in the race (including #55).  See all of the pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thehenryford/sets/72157632997627147/   or   here if you want to purchase any: http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/collection.pl?productTypeID=62&collectionID=3110&pgNumber=1&seeAllImages=1&sortBy=soldQty  There are some pictures of a supporting sports car race as well so don't be confused by the Triumphs and Corvairs in some of the pictures.

Larger and clearer versions of the pictures can be seen here:

1) (picture #72) http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/magnify_popup.pl?imageID=178368&staticImage=C&ckon=image&alt=0
2) (picture #121) http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/magnify_popup.pl?imageID=178417&staticImage=C&ckon=image&alt=0
3) (picture #221) http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/magnify_popup.pl?imageID=178517&staticImage=C&ckon=image&alt=0
4) (picture #204) http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/magnify_popup.pl?imageID=178500&staticImage=C&ckon=image&alt=0

 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 03:38:02 PM by SMKZ28 » Logged
Shadow Ahead
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« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2013, 03:37:50 PM »

Thanks! This is some help and then some. Need to get a copy of the Friedman book. Maybe I can buy a good used copy.

   It looks as though starting with WG that the 10 car which used to be the 33 car now belonged to Rocky Mountain Racing and I do believe the 10 and 33 car pics have been compared and discussed before. In addition, the #3 '68 Revson car blurb on Fantasy Junction -http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/773-AMC-Javelin%20Trans-Am-V8 and in other discussions elsewhere indicate that the #3 which sold a few years back in its original '68 livery lists the # 3, Tullius, Hunter, 3 history. Russo & Steele recently auctioning the car:http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1968-AMC-Javelin-Trans-Am/1462 descrribes the 33/Tullius relation and 10/Hunter relationship.
   
So, what remains yet is tracing the beginnings of the # 47 car. Klvnr8r or his brother may shine abeacon on that if one of them can come up with the article that apparently shows the 3 Kaplan cars in his shop pre or early '69 season. Was the 3rd car a body in white? Does it have a domed hood, or at least, signature fender bulges? Stay tuned erstwhile TA fans, let the nail biting begin... Grin

 S A
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SMKZ28
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« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2013, 03:44:49 PM »

Thanks! This is some help and then some. Need to get a copy of the Friedman book. Maybe I can buy a good used copy.

   It looks as though starting with WG that the 10 car which used to be the 33 car now belonged to Rocky Mountain Racing and I do believe the 10 and 33 car pics have been compared and discussed before. In addition, the #3 '68 Revson car blurb on Fantasy Junction -http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/773-AMC-Javelin%20Trans-Am-V8 and in other discussions elsewhere indicate that the #3 which sold a few years back in its original '68 livery lists the # 3, Tullius, Hunter, 3 history. Russo & Steele recently auctioning the car:http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1968-AMC-Javelin-Trans-Am/1462 descrribes the 33/Tullius relation and 10/Hunter relationship.
   
So, what remains yet is tracing the beginnings of the # 47 car. Klvnr8r or his brother may shine abeacon on that if one of them can come up with the article that apparently shows the 3 Kaplan cars in his shop pre or early '69 season. Was the 3rd car a body in white? Does it have a domed hood, or at least, signature fender bulges? Stay tuned erstwhile TA fans, let the nail biting begin... Grin

 S A

Your welcome.  The book of his Trans Am photos only contains a fraction of the photos that The Henry Ford has in its Archival Dave Friedman Collection.  They hold most, if not all of the pictures he took back in the 60s/70s.  In addition, copies of that book are really expensive now. I have seen them close to $300 on ebay.

See all of the pictures in the Dave Friedman Collection here: http://thehenryford.artehouse.com/perl/collection.pl?collectionID=2582&productTypeID=62&ckon=leftNav&sessionID=99d52782b1cd1eb8ecba3f5e6fa28369  Just scroll down and notice all the races he attended listed on the left side.  They have posted some of the collection on their Flickr site but not all of them.  See the ones they have posted here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thehenryford/sets/

He attended many Trans Am races during 1966-1972 so you can find several pictures of '68, '69, '70, '71, and '72 Javelins you might never have seen before
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2013, 04:08:57 PM »

Most if not all of the Trans-Am photos in the "Dave Friedman Collection" were not taken by Dave but rather by "Jack Brady & Associates". Dave bought that collection years ago and some other collections as well and put them together in what is called the "Dave Friedman Collection". Dave was primarily the photographer for Shelby American when they were still building cars in the LA area.
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Jon Mello
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SMKZ28
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« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2013, 04:32:41 PM »

Most if not all of the Trans-Am photos in the "Dave Friedman Collection" were not taken by Dave but rather by "Jack Brady & Associates". Dave bought that collection years ago and some other collections as well and put them together in what is called the "Dave Friedman Collection". Dave was primarily the photographer for Shelby American when they were still building cars in the LA area.

Thanks Jon.  I was wondering how that worked because there are always several shots from different angles of the same point in the race.  I figured there were multiple different photographers but didn't know the whole story.  Still a great archival resource for those who have not seen it.
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javelin_gt
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« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2013, 04:48:50 PM »

I am not sure what the big question concerning the Javelin is but here is what I know.

After the 1968 season, the number 3 car was retained by Kaplan for testing and was repainted with red, white and blue stripes. In 1969, the car was held over for the Michigan race and was driven by Bob Tullius to a 4th place finish at Michigan. The car was then sold to the Rocky Mountain race group and driven for the rest of the season by privateer Ron Hunter as the #10 car.

So all 4 1968 Javelins were at Michigan.  There were only 3 Javelins at the 1969 Watkins Glen Race.  A Kaplan Javelin, Ted Roberts, and Gordon Dewar.  http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/race.php?raceid=9334

#10 Javelin was Ron Hunter
http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=5266

#33 Javelin was Bob Tullius
http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=426

#47 Javelin was Gordon Dewar
http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=12340

#55 Javelin was Ted Roberts  
http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=12303
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javelin_gt
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« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2013, 05:11:26 PM »

Here is the scoop on Gordon Dewar.  He raced his Javelin with the "Quebec Region Championship Alitalia Class C".  

Not sure how many races he ran or what but that was his main race group back then.  Must have dropped down out of Canada for the Watkins Glen race.

It also looks like he was a driver for JNO Racing up in Canada.  So they probably owned the car.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2013, 06:39:37 PM »

So all 4 1968 Javelins were at Michigan.

I count it as two '68 Javelins and two '69 Javelins at Michigan.

#55 Ted Roberts/Dick Guldstrand '68 Javelin = ex-George Follmer #4 car from '68?

#33 Bob Tullius '68 Javelin = ex-Peter Revson #3 car from '68? (heavily damaged at St Jovite)

#3 Ron Grable '69 = new car

#4 John Martin '69 = new car
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:31:31 PM by Jon Mello » Logged

Jon Mello
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javelin_gt
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« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2013, 07:01:05 PM »

You are correct.  Not sure what happened to my sentence when I was cutting and pasting.
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klvn8r
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« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2013, 08:53:55 PM »

Was "heavy damage at St. Jovite" 1968 or 69?  Huh  I thought it was 69.....and that would mean that a "new" car got bent really hard.  Both 68 cars had a pretty good life.  Those 69 cars got beat up!

klvn8r
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2013, 10:29:01 PM »

Oops, you're right. I was getting ahead of myself. Thanks for catching that.
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Jon Mello
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mike343sharpstick
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« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2013, 10:39:27 PM »

I'd like to know a bit more about this car! It has all the traits of an RKE javelin?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3177576/1969-amc-javelin/
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Shadow Ahead
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« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2013, 11:14:49 PM »

Check the rear end caps and decklid on the 4 car:http://www.carcraft.com/thehistoryof/trans_am_racing_early_years/photo_06.html

Compare to the b & w pick where you can just make out some dark spots on the rear quarter end caps and decklid:

Steve
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Shadow Ahead
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« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2013, 12:41:35 AM »

I'd like to know a bit more about this car! It has all the traits of an RKE javelin?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3177576/1969-amc-javelin/

That car is enough different it could be the subject of its own thread. If you can log on there it would be helpful if they have more pics and documents. The paint looks like the '68 #25 RKE Javelin. Apart from the upper ball joint suspension it doesn't jump out as an RKE car given how stock it is.

S A
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Shadow Ahead
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« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2013, 02:36:05 AM »

The spoiler is very '69 Kaplanesque.
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