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Author Topic: maintaining doors...  (Read 1933 times)
69Z28-RS
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« on: October 02, 2013, 04:06:24 PM »

I'm disassembling my door hardware to clean, lubricate, etc... and have some questions I hope to get some help with...

Which inner door hardware (regulators, guides, and latch mechanism') were installed by Fisher before they painted the door?  I'm suspecting it's everything except the glass.. but I've never heard or read anything about this, and I just disassembled my first one (and there is primer/paint overspray on some of the components??)

Is there a good source for an original or good reproduction outer door weatherstrip?  (goes along the top of the door, seals over the door edge, has a chrome/ss bead and provides 'whiskers' against the glass)Huh  If there is, What is the best source?

Is there a source for the plastic inserts which plug into holes in the door, and provide retention for the door panel pins?  (see photos)

Is there a source for the black 'masking tape' (what it looks like) which was used in the factory to tape down the vapor barrier under the door panel?  (see photo)..

Any information/assistance is appreciated...  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
cook_dw
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 06:39:58 PM »

The inner parts of the door as far as I know are not painted.  I'm actually replating my door latch mech right now & it's silver cad..   Which I plan on making them silver zinc.  I'm probably wrong but that seems to be what I have seen over the years on regs, latches etc.
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
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jims69
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 10:16:46 PM »

Restoration Specialties.com; page 130  of their online catalog, has  door panel  plugs.   I've never ordered from them; but found their catalog searching for fasteners for our cars.   If you find someone who sells the black barrier tape; let me know, I need it too.

Jim
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JohnZ
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 10:14:02 AM »

I'm disassembling my door hardware to clean, lubricate, etc... and have some questions I hope to get some help with...

Which inner door hardware (regulators, guides, and latch mechanism') were installed by Fisher before they painted the door?  I'm suspecting it's everything except the glass.. but I've never heard or read anything about this, and I just disassembled my first one (and there is primer/paint overspray on some of the components??)

There was no bolted-on hardware in the door when the body was painted EXCEPT the latch assembly in the end of the door; everything else was installed after Paint, in the Fisher Trim Shop.
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'69 Z/28
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 10:26:29 AM »

Thanks John, That's what I was looking for... 
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
cook_dw
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 11:03:24 AM »

Now I am confused.  The assembly I took out of my 67 was silver cad.  This finish guide also shows the screws to be the same.  Was 67 different than 69? Why would they put the latch assembly into the door and the rod that goes to the handle mech (which is a bear to attach when latch is installed) to the latch assembly not be installed.  My experience it is much easier and quicker to install the handle mech, rod & latch assembly in all together.  I would have thought the production line would have done the same.?.  Also there was no paint on the screws or assembly when I took it apart.


 Middle Column is Camaro Nationals Seminar and the right column is MacNeish Book.

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Darrell Cook
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Mike S
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 11:10:39 AM »

 Both of my '67's too are silver with no paint. I believe they painted them in `69 which included the door catch as well.
I can't speak for `68 though.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
cook_dw
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 11:16:46 AM »

Both of my '67's too are silver with no paint. I believe they painted them in `69 which included the door catch as well.
I can't speak for `68 though.

Mike

I was just coming back to post that I answered my question by doing a little searching.  It also appears that it depends on where it was built also.  NOR or LOS.
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
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Red Gorilla Restorations
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email at redgorillarestorations@gmail.com
Mike S
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 11:24:09 AM »

Both of my '67's too are silver with no paint. I believe they painted them in `69 which included the door catch as well.
I can't speak for `68 though.

Mike

I was just coming back to post that I answered my question by doing a little searching.  It also appears that it depends on where it was built also.  NOR or LOS.


 I have one from each location (4B LOS and 5B NOR) and neither had paint. I thought I read it was either a 68 & 69 thing or just a 69 thing.
Maybe after 67 it was changed to streamline the process more?
Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
cook_dw
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 11:29:09 AM »

67 neither painted them.  Then sometime between 68-9 NOR went to painting them.
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Darrell Cook
1967, 8 & 9 Camaros
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janobyte
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 01:38:27 PM »

Disassembled mine a few months ago,clean.....Just as JohnZ said.... (Guru  Wink I can post some pics if you need reference for finish. Regulators and glass are packed away however.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 02:10:20 PM »

Jano, sure I'd love to see photos.. and I'm sure others would too..  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
JohnZ
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2013, 11:08:29 AM »

1969 was different - the latches were installed in the Body Shop and painted; see photos below of the latches on my all-original/untouched 02D Norwood car.
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'69 Z/28
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2013, 11:48:27 AM »

Mine are the same John; but when I disassembled the door internals, I also found spots of overspray on the glass tracks and door latch mechanism, which made me think all the door internals (minus the door glass itself and the weatherstrip) were also installed prior to painting the door.   Has your door ever been apart to see totally clean latches and glass tracks, or do you have documentation that prescribes how Fisher did the assemblies in late '69??   I had previously believed my car had original paint from the firewall back, but if Fisher didn't get overspray on my door internals, then that door has had some 'touchup' prior to my purchase in 1976...??
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
JohnZ
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 11:03:40 AM »

Mine are the same John; but when I disassembled the door internals, I also found spots of overspray on the glass tracks and door latch mechanism, which made me think all the door internals (minus the door glass itself and the weatherstrip) were also installed prior to painting the door.   Has your door ever been apart to see totally clean latches and glass tracks, or do you have documentation that prescribes how Fisher did the assemblies in late '69??   I had previously believed my car had original paint from the firewall back, but if Fisher didn't get overspray on my door internals, then that door has had some 'touchup' prior to my purchase in 1976...??

Nope, my car has never been apart, and the door trim panels have never been removed. Looking down inside the door cavities with the window down, there's no trace of exterior color on any of the glass hardware.
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'69 Z/28
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Sauron327
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2013, 01:30:17 PM »

Cars were not painted with glass installed. It makes no sense in painting and assembly procedure. They would have to mask the windows. Overspray on parts from poor masking is common during repaints. Many just papered off the windows and do not worry about overspray that the felts will hide when installed. Some don't even take the felts off. Big diifference in restoration painting and collision repairs.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2013, 01:35:49 PM »

Cars were not painted with glass installed. It makes no sense in painting procedure. They would have to mask the windows. Overspray on parts from poor masking is common during repaints. Many just papered off the windows and did not worry about overspray that the felts will hide when installed. Some don't even take the felts off. Big diifference in restoration painting and collision repairs.

I think it's obvious that the glass would not be installed, as that would have required additional tasks to clean up, but the small amount of paint that went thru the inner panel holes would not affect the 'back side' of the inner mechanisms.  it's too bad we don't have access to the Fisher body procedures used (for any year) as I doubt they changed this sort of thing over the years.

My question had to do with the guides, channels, door latch, etc.   There was paint on my door latch, and some on the back (interior) side of the guides/tracks (corresponding to the holes in the interior of the door, making it seem that the internals were installed prior to paint, so when the door inner side got painted (lightly), some of the paint went thru the holes to the internal parts.   There was NO overspray on the glass or the parts attached to the glass.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Sauron327
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2013, 02:19:54 PM »

If a door is jambed with tracks installed, paint would be on retaining bolts. It is possible that the door was reshot before it was delivered to the customer. Without seeing it it's hard to tell. Many new cars on a dealer lot are repaired due to transport damage. The customer is not told, nor would they know. That $45K new car someone just bought may have had it's bumper repaired before they even signed the papers.
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janobyte
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2013, 05:31:19 PM »

be patient, I'll post some pics for you tomorrow,68 mind you.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2013, 01:40:29 PM »

it's too bad we don't have access to the Fisher body procedures used (for any year) as I doubt they changed this sort of thing over the years.

Fisher Body processes were highly standardized across car lines and body styles; other than door latches, any part inside the door that wasn't welded was installed in the Trim Shop, after Paint.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 01:21:03 PM »


First I degrease everything then evaporust or Safest rust remover to remove the oxidation then boeshield, followed by correct lubrication according to the Fisher Manual.
I have not had issues with my windows rolling up with ease nor latches sticking etc.

Here are the set I recently refurbished from the 69 X66 conv I am currently painting, BTW this car had 2 repaints and nothing on the window mechanisms.







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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
SgtHawkUSMC
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2014, 10:12:20 AM »

Here are a few more door pics that might help... from my 69 SS396 I have more if you need to see something specific.





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Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS Hugger Orange
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2014, 01:24:18 PM »

door has had paint work at some point...

Biggest tell is...
The felt guides screwed (with little countersunk phillips head screws) to the outside of the door are completely covered in orange paint...
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
SgtHawkUSMC
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2014, 01:28:38 PM »

door has had paint work at some point...
Biggest tell is...
The felt guides screwed (with little countersunk phillips head screws) to the outside of the door are completely covered in orange paint...
I believe the skin was taped off and painted at some point. It looks like the stripes were taped off and painted around. The strips are original, but not the paint around them... I don't think the paper on the inside of the door had ever been off.
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Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS Hugger Orange
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