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Author Topic: air cleaner without breather  (Read 6960 times)
coupeworks
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« on: September 05, 2006, 05:03:45 PM »

Several years ago, I purchased an air cleaner from an eBay seller who claimed it was from a 1968 Camaro with 4-barrel carburetor. He had posted an image showing a ThermAC, but the cleaner I received had no provisions for the damper door mounted on the snorkel. The seller subsequently told me the image he used was from another auction, but he reiterated that the cleaner I received was from a 4-barrel 68 Camaro.

What I wanted was a ThermAC for a í68 L30 powerglide (I want to change my 2-barrel to a 4-barrel and still be 100% 50 state street legal--and that requires the í68 4-barrel ThermAC, correct?).

At best I was going to have to pay to ship the item back to him in order to recoup any of my money, so I put the cleaner on a shelf and forgot about it.

Now Iím cleaning up my shop and want to sell this cleaner, but I need to know its specific application in order to properly list it.

Iíve taken a look at the CRG Research Report 1967-69 Camaro Emission Systems and some posts on CRGís forums and Team Camaroís forums, but I still need an expert opinion.

Presuming it is from a 1st generation Camaro (assuming the eBay seller was being truthful with me), it can not be for a í69 because the snorkel faces left, not right--correct?† It also can not be for a í68 automatic because it lacks the ThermAC.

It also has NO provision for a breather. The lack of a breather suggests it could not be for a í68 manual since all í68 Camaros used a breather attached to the air cleaner--correct?

Therefore, assuming it is for a first generation Camaro, it must be for a 1967 Camaro L30 (but not California since it lacks the breather--correct?) equipped with either automatic or manual transmission. Does this sound correct?

I appreciate all the help with this!

Thanks in advance.



















P.S., I can take additional photos from different angles if needed; just let me know.
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gro51
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 08:38:46 PM »

In my opinion, you are correct.  The lid is definitely '67 style, and the snorkel points correct way for a '67.  I may be interested.  The base should be the same as what I'm looking for for my '68 SS 350.  What do you want for it?
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Joe
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'68 SS/RS 350, M21, 3:73, Rallye Green, Black Deluxe Interior
coupeworks
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2006, 02:13:59 AM »

Thank you for the added info.

Iím not sure about the base being correct for a í68, though. As I noted above, it has no provision for a breather hose, and my understanding is all í68 Camaros were equipped with breather hoses attached to their air cleaners (but I may be wrong--thatís the reason for this thread).

I had intended to auction it on eBay (either myself or through one of those iSold It on Ebay stores).

Frankly, Iím not sure what price to ask for it, since I can not be 100% sure as to its intended application. Thatís why I was going the eBay route.† If I sell it myself on eBay, I plan to include a link to this thread so someone who is looking for this part can decide for themselves whether this is the correct application and place a bid accordingly.

If you or someone else reading this thread has the correct ThermAC air cleaner I need for my application (1968 Camaro with V-8, 275 HP, 327 Cu. In., RPO L30, 4-barrel, powerglide transmission) in similar condition (as you can see from the images above it is in decent shape, better than some of the ThermACs currently being offered on eBay) post some photos and we may be able to work out an even exchange (I emphasize may simply because I had forgotten all the problems I had trying to find out why the seller had sent me an item different from the one described in the auction--thatís why I put the cleaner on a shelf and forgot about it; so Iím going to need to see some images and feel comfortable with whomever I would be doing the even exchange.

If I do put it up for auction, I will post here with the link to the auction page.

Any other information would be appreciated!

Thanks again in advance.
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ccargo
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 07:22:15 AM »

The Thermatic would be the correct application for your 68 L30 powerglide. The one you have would be for a 67 with quadrajet among other GM applications and is fairly common. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the thermatic air cleaner will be a little more difficult to find. You should have stood your ground with the ebay seller† Sad† To add to the problem you will also need to find the extension pipe and exhaust manifold stove. I've found the 69 version available as aftermarket but not the 68 to my knowledge and I dont think the two interchange. The 68 utilizes a valve cover bypass. I do have an extra 68 correct air cleaner if your interested but it will only solve half your problem.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 07:24:47 AM by ccargo » Logged
coupeworks
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 07:56:14 AM »

Very interesting info; thanks for posting it.

I have the correct heat stove set-up with my 2-barrel, and I was assuming (perhaps incorrectly?) that the stove itself was the same for both the 2-barrel and the 4-barrel ThermACs. Can you confirm this?

You probably do not want to go the route of an even exchange since, as you indicated, the correct ThermAC for my application is harder to find and would therefore command a higher price.

Still, please let me know whether the stove set-up is the same for the 2 & 4-barrels.
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ccargo
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 09:05:30 AM »

Hmmm I dont know if it is the same or not? I have a two barrell air cleaner and I'll take a look and see how it compares to the four barrell. Check your PM I'll try to work something out on the air cleaner.
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JohnKY
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 06:23:49 PM »

The heat stove is the same for V8 2bbl. or 4 bbl. The tube is different, though.
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RJ_RS_SS_350
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2006, 06:37:16 PM »

Is this the air cleaner you're looking for Huh  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230024163230
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2006, 12:45:01 AM »

The 68 Assembly manual shows the L30 327 275 hp 4 bbl carb engine (also same as L48 SS 350) with a PCV valve in the drivers valve cover running into the carb base plate but shows no elbow and tube from the pass side at all.
Every other engine shows the larger vent tube coming off of the pass side valve cover as well as the PCV line.

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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
rich69rs
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2006, 10:43:54 AM »

Early Chevy SB crankcase ventilation systems were "open" systems that drew air in from the breather in the oil filler cap at the front of the engine, through the engine, and then from the engine through the PCV valve to the base of the carb.† Early to mid 60's 283 and 327 engines that used this arrangement, had a fitting at the back of the block, near the distributor.† A hose was connected to this fitting at the back of the engine.† The hose also had an in line PCV valve with the other end of the hose connected to the base of the carb.† Scavenging air flow was through the breather in the oil filler cap at the front of the engine, through the engine, out the engine at the back, through the PCV valve, and into the base of the carb.† This system is an open system in that funes can vent out the oil filler breather.† You can readily see this,† especially just after the engine is turned off.

When the transition was changed to a "closed" crankcase ventillation systems, the oil filler cap no longer had a breather and was changed to a sealed cap.† The connection at the back of the engine was eventually eliminated with the PCV valve being moved to LH valve cover.† Scavenging air flow was through the seperate filter in the air cleaner, into the engine, out through the PCV valve, and into the base of the carb.

Air cleaner pictured at the beginning of this string (without the seperate breather), I would assume, is for a 4Bbl application with an "open" crankcase ventilation system. where the air was drawn into the engine through the breather in the oil filler cap at the front of the engine.  Hence, no need for the seperate filter in the air cleaner. 

It is also pre dates 1968 when the ThermAC System was introduced and required additional modifications to the air cleaner. 

http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtm

The Controlled Combustion System (CCS) was introduced in 1968 and was used on cars that did not receive the AIR system. CCS improved combustion efficiency via recalibrated carburetor and distributor settings and higher operating temperatures (compared to 1967). The higher operating temperatures were accomplished by using a 195įF coolant thermostat (instead of 180įF) and the use of a thermostatically controlled air cleaner (ThermAC). The ThermAC system was designed to warm intake air to 100įF when underhood temperatures were less than 100įF. It consisted of a damper door mounted on the snorkel of the air cleaner which directed warm air from a heat stove on the exhaust manifold into the air cleaner.

Last picture above shows what looks to me to be a closed system.† Although the oil filler is still at the front of the engine (pre 1969) there is no breather - a sealed cap instead.†
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 08:39:49 PM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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coupeworks
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 09:24:26 PM »

Thanks to each of you for the helpful information.† I am now more comfortable with listing it for a 1967 Camaro L30 (except California) equipped with either automatic or manual transmission.

Iíll decide in the next couple of days whether to sell it myself on eBay or drop it off at the local iSold It store to let them handle the auction management.

Either way, I will post a link to the auction.

Also, if anyone has additional information to offer, please post.

Finally, my preferred choice would be an even exchange with someone who has a 68 L30 ThermAC in comparable shape to my 67 L30.† Just as a point of reference, I donít think the ThermAC being auctioned on eBay (the link was posted above) was in comparable shape to my 67 air cleaner (that auction closed without a bid and has been re-listed with a slightly lower starting bid).

I started this thread simply to get more info about the cleaner I want to sell, but I also received a lot of good information about my plans to retrofit my base model 327 to the 4-barrel ThermAC--thanks.† I have a couple more questions about that, but I may start a new thread with a title more appropriate to that specific topic.
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coupeworks
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 04:11:38 PM »

Iíve written tentative copy for the item description (if I go through iSold It, Iíll provide it to them). Please let me know if you see anything I should change.† Thanks in advance!

Up for auction is an air cleaner consisting of the lid and base. There are minor dents on the snorkel. The air cleaner appears to have been repainted. On the lid, there is a red sticker (partially lifting from the lid) that reads as follows:

327 TURBO-FIRE 275 HORSEPOWER

Research suggests this air cleaner is for the following application:

1967 (except California) Camaro V-8, 275 HP, 327 Cu. In., RPO L30, 4-barrel carburetor, manual or automatic transmission.

Please note the following:

This air cleaner does not have a breather hose attachment provision.

This air cleaner does not have a damper door mounted on the snorkel.

This air cleaner is discussed in the following forum thread:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1132.0
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coupeworks
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 02:52:06 AM »

I dropped the air cleaner off at the local iSold It store on Dec 13th.  As soon as they list it on eBay, I will post the link.
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coupeworks
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2006, 08:20:36 PM »

Item is now listed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=270075011108
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