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Author Topic: '69Z 302 - current header recommendations please?  (Read 4820 times)
janobyte
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 12:29:13 PM »

You can still purchase from Stahl ( if in stock, also selling kits) no more manufacturing.

Gary---Lunati techs sent me the specs for a roller cam designed for a stock 302 ,M21 ,3:73 rear end. ( engine would have more bottom end thus street friendly gear) However requires larger diameter valve springs and I'm not about to have my heads cut.

Or exchange them with another set I have.

I do have a 64 327 with a set of 2.02's 64 cc heads (early castings) ,nice candidate for a future project...

We run a roller in a 400 (414) and are very pleased with the results. smooth idle and improved vacuum, HP/torque crosses at 5500. 7400 starts falling off , but still pulls on a pass,curves run parallel on the dyno .Makes quite a bit of power but no "lobe" at idle ,and no "hit". Very smooth power band. I'm sold on them. Modern technology. Just goes outside my parameters for this project. Not to say I may not have another engine on the stand for it Wink

Hey ,survive the storm ok  Huh

Original thread...really do not think you can go wrong with a set of tuned Hookers.
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janobyte
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 12:36:32 PM »

Gary,just sent you an email with the specs if your curious.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 07:24:25 PM »

You can still purchase from Stahl ( if in stock, also selling kits) no more manufacturing.

Gary---Lunati techs sent me the specs for a roller cam designed for a stock 302 ,M21 ,3:73 rear end. ( engine would have more bottom end thus street friendly gear) However requires larger diameter valve springs and I'm not about to have my heads cut.

Or exchange them with another set I have.

I do have a 64 327 with a set of 2.02's 64 cc heads (early castings) ,nice candidate for a future project...

We run a roller in a 400 (414) and are very pleased with the results. smooth idle and improved vacuum, HP/torque crosses at 5500. 7400 starts falling off , but still pulls on a pass,curves run parallel on the dyno .Makes quite a bit of power but no "lobe" at idle ,and no "hit". Very smooth power band. I'm sold on them. Modern technology. Just goes outside my parameters for this project. Not to say I may not have another engine on the stand for it Wink

Hey ,survive the storm ok  Huh

Original thread...really do not think you can go wrong with a set of tuned Hookers.

Jano,

I received your email...  I like Lunati... had a lunati blueprinted 302 cam in my '67 302 race engine, but I've never used or built an engine with a roller cam.. mostly curious.. and I'm sure it's 'better', but not sure all the ways that it would be 'different'.   It makes sense what you say re the 'less lope' and smoother idle.. and more broad power curve, which is what I'd expect.

re last night's storms:   we *(my wife and I, and our daughters and their families) spent several hours in the basement last night (amongst the car parts).. Smiley ...  and we all survived the storms fine (no damage to us or our property), although a few miles away weren't so lucky - severe damage and some lives lost.   It makes me sad what these storms do to some people's lives.. and they are very scary as they seem indiscriminate..  You are very lucky NOT to be in the path of a severe one.  HOpefully tonight's storms won't be as severe as last nights...

I like hookers too (for power)..   they seemed to be the preferred header for 302's even back when these cars were new (for the serious street/drag racers).. but those guys aren't generally concerned if they have to pound their firewalls a bit, or toss or bend the rev LO rods.. Smiley

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 09:56:39 AM »

I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 10:32:02 AM »

I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)

So what is/was your impression of that cam in driving the car, James?   How was it different in performance, sound, idle, off-idle performance, etc...  than the stock 302 cam?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
janobyte
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 10:50:36 AM »

Know what your saying ; .620 .620 ,310 duration in the drag motor ( sbc) does not sound radical at idle. average 680hp@7200 on the dyno. 550ft.lbs. @ 5500. Dart 2.08 heads ,long runner Dart intake. oops....wrong site !
Custom ground hydro roller. HP/torque crosses at 5500 ,lines run very close, almost parallel, no "hit" tolerates pedaling towards the beams very well without falling flat. Cam was spec'd for the car/engine package via the builder. You did it correct firstgenaddict.


I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)
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janobyte
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2014, 11:01:26 AM »

I debated going with a roller in the Z but decided against having the heads cut for bigger springs. Currently it has a older Comp hydro which specs very close to the 30/30 (lift) without slamming the exhaust valves. Rhodes lifters and Harland sharp 1.5 roller rockers. Pleased with the way it ran in something else ,good vacuum, choppy idle. Nice pull to about 6800.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2014, 02:00:15 PM »

The duration was only 280 int 270 exh. The heads were gasket matched 186's with 2.05 Intakes plus we blended the radius on the seats.
It made 15" vacuum and was easy to drive, you could let the clutch out without revving the engine however it did have M20 with 4.10's.
Dave Crower said conservatively 330 Ft# @3500 and 490 Hp at 7000 said if tuned on a dyno I might get 15% better on the numbers.

I was very impressed, he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable and explained why he did what he did after giving me the specs. Besides the obvious factors of bore, stroke, & weight, flow rates and runner volume are as/if not more important factors to consider when designing a cam.   
When I asked for a HP number He asked if I wanted something that would post a dyno number or something that would kill the dyno queen in real life?


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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
janobyte
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2014, 02:33:05 PM »

The Pros know the numbers it's going to make. Have to know if the bottom end is strong enough. Not the worst thing hearing it fired and broken in on the dyno. Not to mention carb tuning.

Think you answered the question about Rollers:  all around improvement. Like I said , you did it correct.

LOL, got off topic....headers?
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2014, 03:21:31 PM »

Flat Black Jethot coated Hooker Supercomps
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
hubleyman
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2014, 06:57:36 PM »

Back to my original question and forum topic...

I ended up building my own Super Scavengers and just wrapped up the install last week.  Still a few more bugs to shake down with the project, which is why i haven't posted any progress info.  Used some Hedman 65003 headers as my starting point since I wanted something cheap to chop up for my experiment.  I'll post the fit issues with the the Hedmans if anyone is interested.

Attached are some pics if I can get them to work properly...

Bottom line - watch out for rookie welders with a MIG, some cold beer and too much imagination......

Charlie
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hubleyman
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2014, 07:00:52 PM »

Couple more shots...
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hubleyman
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

Hedman before - no way it would clear the P/S box
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hubleyman
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2014, 07:04:55 PM »

Hedman after - why don't they build them this way?  Perfect fit with zero clearance issues...
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2014, 09:09:08 PM »

The duration was only 280 int 270 exh. The heads were gasket matched 186's with 2.05 Intakes plus we blended the radius on the seats.
It made 15" vacuum and was easy to drive, you could let the clutch out without revving the engine however it did have M20 with 4.10's.
Dave Crower said conservatively 330 Ft# @3500 and 490 Hp at 7000 said if tuned on a dyno I might get 15% better on the numbers.

I was very impressed, he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable and explained why he did what he did after giving me the specs. Besides the obvious factors of bore, stroke, & weight, flow rates and runner volume are as/if not more important factors to consider when designing a cam.  
When I asked for a HP number He asked if I wanted something that would post a dyno number or something that would kill the dyno queen in real life?

and you obviously told him you wanted to KILL the dyno queen... right?    Smiley
How was the sound?  any lope at all?   or was the sound totally different than a stock 302.. no lifter clatter, etc???
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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