CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 01, 2014, 09:01:35 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
103754 Posts in 12185 Topics by 4698 Members
Latest Member: Ed miles
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Mild Modifications
| | |-+  '69Z 302 - current header recommendations please?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [All] Print
Author Topic: '69Z 302 - current header recommendations please?  (Read 5208 times)
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« on: July 24, 2013, 09:56:19 PM »

So I am just about done with rebuilding my 302 for my '69 Z and decided to change from stock exhaust manifolds to headers.  I'd like the car to be louder and a few extra HP never hurts anyone.  After researching all the threads I could find on the subject, it seems prudent to ask the group once again what the current best choices may be based on your experiences.  Every time I see good recommendations, I seem to run across not-so-good ones for the same product.

Here are some specs on my engine:
Bored .020 over with true final 11:1 comp ratio (custom built pistons with no block decking)
30/30 solid lifter cam (Comp Cams OEM replacement)
OEM heads with no porting
OEM intake and carb (upgraded to 72 primary jets)
OEM distributor (set up per CRG recommendations)
Roller rockers and a few reliability upgrades
FYI - The car has OEM power steering.

I also plan to keep the chambered exhaust because it appeals to me.  The car typically gets driven locally mostly / a Sunday-Funday cruiser.  No racing or drag strips, but maybe an occasional slip of the clutch to see if the rear wheels can still smoke a little.

I'm looking for an excellent quality product, that fits properly out of the box, and doesn't require mods for my power steering.  My first inclination is to go with Stahl headers, because they built me a couple of sets for my midyear Corvette race cars and were superb, but I have not used them on a street car as of yet.  Also thought about buying some repro OEM style headers because that would be cool, but they seem to be fairly pricey. I've had Hookers, Hedmans, etc. on my street cars which were fine, but not great.

The rebuilt 302 goes on the dyno soon, so it's about time to order some headers.  Any suggestions or comments, good or bad, from recent purchases?  Any new input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!  Charlie
Logged
ZLP955
Member
***
Posts: 437



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 05:04:37 AM »

Charlie, interesting to see what others recommend, but I have heard good things about Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, especially regarding underside and engine bay clearances, so will be getting those for when I reassemble my car.
Logged

Tim - New South Wales, Australia
04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
Kelley W King
Member
***
Posts: 305


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 07:21:38 AM »

I would love to hear chambered pipes with a set of Mickey Thompson Super Scavengers but good luck trying to find a set. I run Hookers on my cars until I find the MT SS.
Logged

69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition
hb1
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 11:52:24 AM »

Hi Charlie

I have Hooker Super Comps-P/N 2131.  Fit is okay-had to dimple near the p/s box on cyl. #3 tube, and at the pitman arm.  I've seen some posts that state the right side header hit the idler arm. Never had this problem.  Also the left collector flange hangs a little lower than the right.  Just a side note- I put a set of headers and dual exh. on a 1970 z/28 I had while in college.  The power difference was night and day (felt like I put a blower on it).  They may be a headache to install, but are well worth the headache.  Probably a true 35-40 horsepower improvement. 
Good Luck
Harry
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 01:15:08 PM »

The last headers I purchased for my '69 Z28 (no PS), I had to remove the reverse lockout mechanism, which I didn't like to do, and now I'm still hunting in my shop for the lower rod that I removed at that time.    and those also 'hit' the floorpan at the collector which I didn't care for.

Which available headers for a '69 302 do NOT require removal of the reverse lockout rod?  and fit the best with the other factory equipment?
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Kelley W King
Member
***
Posts: 305


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 09:56:19 AM »

October issue of Popular Hot Rodding has some interesting header articles. The one describing the temperture difference of Coated versus painted really woke me up. They run much cooler.
Logged

69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition
69Z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 872


69 X33D80 Z28


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 03:05:43 PM »

I couldn't say what brand of header I had on my Z when I first bought it, and I still have them hanging on the wall in my garage, but I  purchased a repro lower lock out rod from Rick's in 2001 and it fit with no problems and had pretty good clearance. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say headers are headers no matter who you buy from and what coating is on it, at least for the street I would think. I don't think the exhaust gases really have any idea what they are going thru. I had so many problems with changing spark plugs and burnt spark plug wire boots I just yanked mine out and said forget this. I kind of like the day 2 look with white headers myself, if I was to change my way of thinking on headers, but I don't think I'll do that anytime soon.

I was looking thru some of my notes from the past few years and at one time on the Team Camaro site some members where going for the Summit 1 5/8", part# SUM-G9001-9 header. I haven't looked at them for a while but I think those are fairly decent and are coated I think and were going for around $210.00 last I looked.  
Logged

GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 08:20:46 PM »

All the input in this thread is really helpful, and I'm getting close to making a decision.  My engine is done, dynoed and ready to install so it's time to pull the trigger on some headers regardless of the choices.

However, now you guys got me obssessing over those M/T Super Scavengers.  I understand they're hard to find and most likely very expensive if you ever do, but I really like the design of them.  It wouldn't matter if they were originals or reproductions for my usage, but they may just have to stay on the wish list until I locate a decent set someday.

Thanks for all the suggestions!  Charlie
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 08:35:41 PM »

The headers on my car when I purchased it also had no clearance issues with anything, everything was in place, but after sitting for many years, they were totally rotted, so I bought new ceramic coated headers..   and they DO have clearance issues.. 
I think the original ones were Hedman.  Are those still available? in the same design as original?
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 457


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 12:58:45 PM »

I had my 302 rebuilt and the only modifications are roller rockers, a custom grind cam, headers (hooker comps) and what ever magic the engine builder did and it dynoed @ 419 HP and 372 lb/ft of torque. I know many love the orig 30/30 (long ramps and single pattern grind) but the responsiveness of this engine exceeded my expectation. Plenty of torque with a close ratio and 373's, so drivability is excellent.
I picked flowmaster american thunder exhaust system but installed the 50 series low profile mufflers. I did this because I had the 40 series (on another car) and the resonance was too annoying for me.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
william1
Member
***
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2013, 10:16:18 AM »

were not the pipes on the mt scavengers all the same length ?
Logged
Kelley W King
Member
***
Posts: 305


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2013, 10:46:02 AM »

They were but did it in the collector. If you looked in the collector the tubes were ran until all 4 were equal. Someone was reproducing the at one time.
Logged

69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition
jdv69z
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 637


69 RS Z/28 52E


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2013, 01:51:42 PM »

Charlie, interesting to see what others recommend, but I have heard good things about Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, especially regarding underside and engine bay clearances, so will be getting those for when I reassemble my car.

I'm running these and am happy with them. Only thing I didn't like was they sounded like they had back pressure when accelerating normally. The Hooker comps I had on previously did not. Anyway, I add an H pipe to the exhaust, and that eliminated the back pressure sound.
Logged

Jimmy V.
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 01:28:10 PM »

I had my 302 rebuilt and the only modifications are roller rockers, a custom grind cam, headers (hooker comps) and what ever magic the engine builder did and it dynoed @ 419 HP and 372 lb/ft of torque. I know many love the orig 30/30 (long ramps and single pattern grind) but the responsiveness of this engine exceeded my expectation. Plenty of torque with a close ratio and 373's, so drivability is excellent.
I picked flowmaster american thunder exhaust system but installed the 50 series low profile mufflers. I did this because I had the 40 series (on another car) and the resonance was too annoying for me.

Steve, 
1) How about some more info on the roller cam you used?   source? specs?  price?  availability? etc.. 
2) Did the Hooker comps interfere with your rev LO rod?

Gary
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
ban617
Member
***
Posts: 101


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 05:03:03 AM »

 Stahl closed the shop down I believe ....
Logged
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 12:29:13 PM »

You can still purchase from Stahl ( if in stock, also selling kits) no more manufacturing.

Gary---Lunati techs sent me the specs for a roller cam designed for a stock 302 ,M21 ,3:73 rear end. ( engine would have more bottom end thus street friendly gear) However requires larger diameter valve springs and I'm not about to have my heads cut.

Or exchange them with another set I have.

I do have a 64 327 with a set of 2.02's 64 cc heads (early castings) ,nice candidate for a future project...

We run a roller in a 400 (414) and are very pleased with the results. smooth idle and improved vacuum, HP/torque crosses at 5500. 7400 starts falling off , but still pulls on a pass,curves run parallel on the dyno .Makes quite a bit of power but no "lobe" at idle ,and no "hit". Very smooth power band. I'm sold on them. Modern technology. Just goes outside my parameters for this project. Not to say I may not have another engine on the stand for it Wink

Hey ,survive the storm ok  Huh

Original thread...really do not think you can go wrong with a set of tuned Hookers.
Logged
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 12:36:32 PM »

Gary,just sent you an email with the specs if your curious.
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 07:24:25 PM »

You can still purchase from Stahl ( if in stock, also selling kits) no more manufacturing.

Gary---Lunati techs sent me the specs for a roller cam designed for a stock 302 ,M21 ,3:73 rear end. ( engine would have more bottom end thus street friendly gear) However requires larger diameter valve springs and I'm not about to have my heads cut.

Or exchange them with another set I have.

I do have a 64 327 with a set of 2.02's 64 cc heads (early castings) ,nice candidate for a future project...

We run a roller in a 400 (414) and are very pleased with the results. smooth idle and improved vacuum, HP/torque crosses at 5500. 7400 starts falling off , but still pulls on a pass,curves run parallel on the dyno .Makes quite a bit of power but no "lobe" at idle ,and no "hit". Very smooth power band. I'm sold on them. Modern technology. Just goes outside my parameters for this project. Not to say I may not have another engine on the stand for it Wink

Hey ,survive the storm ok  Huh

Original thread...really do not think you can go wrong with a set of tuned Hookers.

Jano,

I received your email...  I like Lunati... had a lunati blueprinted 302 cam in my '67 302 race engine, but I've never used or built an engine with a roller cam.. mostly curious.. and I'm sure it's 'better', but not sure all the ways that it would be 'different'.   It makes sense what you say re the 'less lope' and smoother idle.. and more broad power curve, which is what I'd expect.

re last night's storms:   we *(my wife and I, and our daughters and their families) spent several hours in the basement last night (amongst the car parts).. Smiley ...  and we all survived the storms fine (no damage to us or our property), although a few miles away weren't so lucky - severe damage and some lives lost.   It makes me sad what these storms do to some people's lives.. and they are very scary as they seem indiscriminate..  You are very lucky NOT to be in the path of a severe one.  HOpefully tonight's storms won't be as severe as last nights...

I like hookers too (for power)..   they seemed to be the preferred header for 302's even back when these cars were new (for the serious street/drag racers).. but those guys aren't generally concerned if they have to pound their firewalls a bit, or toss or bend the rev LO rods.. Smiley

Gary
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1203



View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 09:56:39 AM »

I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 10:32:02 AM »

I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)

So what is/was your impression of that cam in driving the car, James?   How was it different in performance, sound, idle, off-idle performance, etc...  than the stock 302 cam?
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 10:50:36 AM »

Know what your saying ; .620 .620 ,310 duration in the drag motor ( sbc) does not sound radical at idle. average 680hp@7200 on the dyno. 550ft.lbs. @ 5500. Dart 2.08 heads ,long runner Dart intake. oops....wrong site !
Custom ground hydro roller. HP/torque crosses at 5500 ,lines run very close, almost parallel, no "hit" tolerates pedaling towards the beams very well without falling flat. Cam was spec'd for the car/engine package via the builder. You did it correct firstgenaddict.


I talked to Dave Crower extensively when he custom designed a 302 solid roller for me a few years ago.
I gave him everything for the car, weight, rear ratio, trans ratios, tire height, compression ratio, rod length, bore, stroke, he said that the most important set of figures was flow numbers on the heads from .100 to .700 every .100... (if you have stock unported heads the numbers are available) told him we wanted a nice lick and it would be drag strip/street fun driven 1000 miles a year. He had free reign
It also required larger springs, bronze cam gear, cam button.
I hate telling people the lift as it sounds outrageous for a SB (.636 Gross, with the ramps designed to open the valve quick then on close drop it just shy of the seat quickly then gently let it down on the seats so they don't get pounded into the heads.)
Logged
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2014, 11:01:26 AM »

I debated going with a roller in the Z but decided against having the heads cut for bigger springs. Currently it has a older Comp hydro which specs very close to the 30/30 (lift) without slamming the exhaust valves. Rhodes lifters and Harland sharp 1.5 roller rockers. Pleased with the way it ran in something else ,good vacuum, choppy idle. Nice pull to about 6800.
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1203



View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2014, 02:00:15 PM »

The duration was only 280 int 270 exh. The heads were gasket matched 186's with 2.05 Intakes plus we blended the radius on the seats.
It made 15" vacuum and was easy to drive, you could let the clutch out without revving the engine however it did have M20 with 4.10's.
Dave Crower said conservatively 330 Ft# @3500 and 490 Hp at 7000 said if tuned on a dyno I might get 15% better on the numbers.

I was very impressed, he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable and explained why he did what he did after giving me the specs. Besides the obvious factors of bore, stroke, & weight, flow rates and runner volume are as/if not more important factors to consider when designing a cam.   
When I asked for a HP number He asked if I wanted something that would post a dyno number or something that would kill the dyno queen in real life?


Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2014, 02:33:05 PM »

The Pros know the numbers it's going to make. Have to know if the bottom end is strong enough. Not the worst thing hearing it fired and broken in on the dyno. Not to mention carb tuning.

Think you answered the question about Rollers:  all around improvement. Like I said , you did it correct.

LOL, got off topic....headers?
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1203



View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2014, 03:21:31 PM »

Flat Black Jethot coated Hooker Supercomps
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2014, 06:57:36 PM »

Back to my original question and forum topic...

I ended up building my own Super Scavengers and just wrapped up the install last week.  Still a few more bugs to shake down with the project, which is why i haven't posted any progress info.  Used some Hedman 65003 headers as my starting point since I wanted something cheap to chop up for my experiment.  I'll post the fit issues with the the Hedmans if anyone is interested.

Attached are some pics if I can get them to work properly...

Bottom line - watch out for rookie welders with a MIG, some cold beer and too much imagination......

Charlie
Logged
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2014, 07:00:52 PM »

Couple more shots...
Logged
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

Hedman before - no way it would clear the P/S box
Logged
hubleyman
Member
***
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2014, 07:04:55 PM »

Hedman after - why don't they build them this way?  Perfect fit with zero clearance issues...
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2342


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2014, 09:09:08 PM »

The duration was only 280 int 270 exh. The heads were gasket matched 186's with 2.05 Intakes plus we blended the radius on the seats.
It made 15" vacuum and was easy to drive, you could let the clutch out without revving the engine however it did have M20 with 4.10's.
Dave Crower said conservatively 330 Ft# @3500 and 490 Hp at 7000 said if tuned on a dyno I might get 15% better on the numbers.

I was very impressed, he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable and explained why he did what he did after giving me the specs. Besides the obvious factors of bore, stroke, & weight, flow rates and runner volume are as/if not more important factors to consider when designing a cam.  
When I asked for a HP number He asked if I wanted something that would post a dyno number or something that would kill the dyno queen in real life?

and you obviously told him you wanted to KILL the dyno queen... right?    Smiley
How was the sound?  any lope at all?   or was the sound totally different than a stock 302.. no lifter clatter, etc???
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2014, 10:56:03 PM »

My "dyno queen" sounds less radical than the solid lifter 302 did. And the current 302....all be true said.....apples and oranges in comparison between the two  Grin
Logged
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2014, 10:56:37 PM »

Beautiful work on the headers!
Logged
janobyte
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 702


1968 z/28

bajcer@msn.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2014, 08:25:17 AM »

My "dyno queen" sounds less radical than the solid lifter 302 did. And the current 302....all be true said.....apples and oranges in comparison between the two  Grin
       at idle....

( same 302, different cam)

Gotta say again, really nice work on the headers, they look great.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.389 seconds with 17 queries.