Author Topic: Survivor  (Read 3200 times)

Hot302

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Survivor
« on: June 21, 2013, 09:57:20 PM »
I'd like some input on this question. The term "Survivor"   Does a car have to have the original drive train to be called a survivor?
Rick
69 RS/Z28

1968RSZ28

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 10:24:23 PM »
In Bloomington Gold Corvette "Survivor" judging (their class for unrestored cars), at least three of the four areas (mechanical, chassis, interior and exterior) must be judged at least 50% original.  You can fail one area completely and still qualify for the award.

Paul

Hot302

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 10:37:47 PM »
Thanks for the response Paul, So would the drive train be classified as "mechanical"? And if so you could have a completely different engine, trans and rear end  than what was original to the car and still qualify for the award?
Rick
69 RS/Z28

tmodel66

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 11:49:50 PM »
I got a '48 Peterbuilt that's a survivor according to those guidelines.   ;D That's awful lenient don't you think?
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

Hot302

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 01:05:22 AM »
Yes it is pretty lenient Daniel, I would of thought you should have a drive train that survived along with the rest of the car to call it a survivor.
Rick
69 RS/Z28

lakeholme

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 02:06:40 AM »
The purpose behind survivor cars is what the AACA calls "historic preservation of original features".
When you are thinking about Corvettes or Camaros, where original festures can still be found, I suppose the BG standard seems lenient. But when it comes to a totally original Marmon or Cord, they are few and far between...
Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Charlotte Autofair, Sept 24-27, 2015
Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair, April 9, 2016
Planning Sentimental Tour, June 12-17, 2016

tmodel66

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 03:05:47 AM »
The purpose behind survivor cars is what the AACA calls "historic preservation of original features".
When you are thinking about Corvettes or Camaros, where original festures can still be found, I suppose the BG standard seems lenient. But when it comes to a totally original Marmon or Cord, they are few and far between...

Point taken. I'm not one to tell other people how to run their business but it would make more sense to me if it were broke down into some kind of brackets for maybe age, number produced, etc. etc. etc......
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

69Z28-RS

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 11:41:30 AM »
Just remember that there are *degrees* of survivor, just as there are 'grades' on a restored car..  Most organizations judging 'survivor' cars are heavily weighted on 'originality', with fewer points on condition.  If it's not original part, you get *zero*.. it has to be an original part to get 'condition' points for that part.   The goal is to maintain some good candidates in as original a condition as possible, as that is where the best information resides as to 'how the factory did it'.. or what the factory did.

The *percentages of unrestored original' in the major areas (paint, interior, mechanical) is simply the 'ticket' to the ball, that gets you into that class for the detailed judging.  Just think if that wasn't true!   Once anything had been changed on a car, there would be no reason for an owner to preserve the rest of it... without such guidelines and allowances, we would soon have ONLY modified or restored cars... and what would you use to get *real* information?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

tmodel66

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 12:11:33 PM »
OK Gary I'm with you now. You'll need to know I've never had a car judged so I didn't know about the "degrees" of survivor. That's what I meant by the bracket,percentage, etc. statement. I learned something today.
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

JohnZ

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 02:28:09 PM »
Thanks for the response Paul, So would the drive train be classified as "mechanical"? And if so you could have a completely different engine, trans and rear end  than what was original to the car and still qualify for the award?

Under Bloomington Gold "Survivor" (and NCRS "Star/Bowtie") rules, "Mechanical" is under the hood, including the engine, and "Chassis" is under the car, including the suspension, transmission, and rear end.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

BULLITT65

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 05:06:51 PM »
In some ways it is easier to have a "survivor" car, some ways a bit harder. Most survivors you can enjoy driving, if you get a rock chip for instance its not the end of the world, in most cases your car had a couple already, if you hit a puddle and get dirt/mud on the car, you don't need to do a full chassis detail when you get back home. Your 1000 point show car probabley doesn't get much time on the road because of just these couple issues, and many more. On the other hand if you have a "survivor" and all of a sudden you have a mechanical issue or rust issue pops up you have the dilemma of trying to fix the car in the most original way possible or preserve vs. keeping it original but having the problem persist and possibly get worse. A restored car it is just a matter of finding at worst a good reproduction part, at best an NOS one. A survivor car your trying to find the best good used original you can if you need to replace anything. Even NOS parts look to new, or the off the shelf parts are not the same as the line items. JUst my 2 cents...
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

Hot302

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 05:09:51 PM »
Thanks for all the input guys. You've made things allot more clear for me. I'm not a car show guy and have seen the term "Survivor" thrown out there allot, and now I have a better understanding of it. I really appreciate everyone's opinion.
Rick
69 RS/Z28

lakeholme

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 05:39:09 PM »
Guys,
Here is the definitive survivor.
survivor
First time I saw this car on a show field, I had to chuckle. But it serves the purpose!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 06:36:20 PM by lakeholme »
Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Charlotte Autofair, Sept 24-27, 2015
Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair, April 9, 2016
Planning Sentimental Tour, June 12-17, 2016

BULLITT65

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 05:43:03 PM »
I know the guys at bloomington gold have trademarked the word "survivor" for their show, but I think the word is still over used to describe any some what original car. While my car has never been in a show,  I have been to their show and they have everything from Camaro to Ferrari to Bug, to even Toyota supra. If it has been preserved and is least over 20 to 30 years old based on class, they will accept your money (about $300 last time I checked) and judge your car based on their criteria. I went to the show to get an understanding (like you) of what is considered a survivor , and just to get a frame of reference for my own car which I knew wasn't in their ZZenith class, but fell into the next category I think they referred to as  fingerprint - "FingerPrint™ Standards may range from good to outstanding preservation.  However, total refinishing, replacement, damage and deterioration must not exceed 25% from factory new. "
I liked the show, most of the cars were older and some of them you could just look at and know they had barley been touched since new, just driven and well kept. The Judges are pretty knowledgeable about finishes and patina, but may not know every correct nut and bolt that should be on a specific car, Vs. the camaro nationals where I assume they have enough original examples to be for certain.
If you wanted to document your car as being original and have a certificate that says so, or if you wanted to sell or get an appraisal I am sure this is a piece of documentation that may aid you.
I would recommend attending at least once, every year there is a new batch trying to get certified so it is virtually a new show every year.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 11:50:40 AM »
Hey guys, can I assume this is a survivor? I bought this last week. Still mostly original, paint, 46,369 miles. Has new exhaust, radiator, different tires, maybe some little parts replaced. I haven't got it home yet to verify what may be missing or replaced, hopefully this week.
GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28