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Author Topic: Battery Side post or top question  (Read 4779 times)
69Z28
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« on: April 19, 2013, 10:49:53 AM »

I was doing some reading just now and touched on the battery write up. Was there actually a firm date as to when the side mount battery was installed? I clearly don't have a clue what came in my first week of June 06A Z since the cables in it aren't originals. I haven't decided whether or not I want to get the spring ring cabes. I heard they can get damaged if not properly installed or removed. The side mount on the other hand does look cleaner and easier to R & R.
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GaryC

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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 11:17:32 AM »

Not sure of the exact date, but I was told my 05A Z should have side terminal battery.
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 11:46:13 AM »

So your car doesn't have there original cables either I'm guessing. Yeah, I'm reading somewhere in May but was it an across the board change or phased in, and all the top post were used up and the side post were installed when that happened. Seems confusing to have both going on at the same time. I don't think this is something we want to assume either way is it? 


Not sure of the exact date, but I was told my 05A Z should have side terminal battery.
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GaryC

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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2013, 08:56:09 AM »



My 06A RSZ28 has the original side post cables, it was made approx June 20, shipped June 23, ( Canadian Documentation). All June cars are 06A BTW. The original battery was a Y77 with different size terminal threads. My car had the original battery when I bought it, it has a Delco Replacement and I had to change 1 attachment bolt. I have a NOS Y77 battery for future use.


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69Z28
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2013, 10:12:18 PM »

I have a real early June car, 653104. Something to think about. I kind of like the side post type actually. Gives a nice clean look. I bet it would be hard to confirm if the cables were top or side post around that time period. Did the factory have a large supply of batteries and cables on hand? When was the battery installed? I'm assuming the cables were installed when the starter was installed?




My 06A RSZ28 has the original side post cables, it was made approx June 20, shipped June 23, ( Canadian Documentation). All June cars are 06A BTW. The original battery was a Y77 with different size terminal threads. My car had the original battery when I bought it, it has a Delco Replacement and I had to change 1 attachment bolt. I have a NOS Y77 battery for future use.



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GaryC

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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 02:16:04 AM »

The changeover time is pretty clearly defined on the page, IMO.

http://www.camaros.org/underhood.shtml#Batteries

For LOS cars, the change to side post batteries occurred during the 05A week (cowl tag date). For NOR cars, it appears the change to the Y77 side post battery occurred in late April, while the R79 side post battery was used starting in early- to mid-May. (See the Battery Usage section for application information.)
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 04:26:10 AM »

Hi Kurt. Yeah...I read that. With my VIN and the 5/31/69 bulletin can I assum that my car had the side terminals? I always considered my car actually was built that first week in June. It's getting close to battery replacement for my car, so I'm thinking I'll replace cables and battery at the same time. Need opinions, should I or shouldn't I?


The changeover time is pretty clearly defined on the page, IMO.

http://www.camaros.org/underhood.shtml#Batteries

For LOS cars, the change to side post batteries occurred during the 05A week (cowl tag date). For NOR cars, it appears the change to the Y77 side post battery occurred in late April, while the R79 side post battery was used starting in early- to mid-May. (See the Battery Usage section for application information.)
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GaryC

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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 05:16:31 PM »

Anybody have a recommendation on who to buy the side mount battery cables from? Ricks are $38.00 and $41.00 set, NPD's are $45.00 set and HBC's are $50.00 set. I wonder if they are all made by the same company. Are batteries still bought using the R number today or is there a different number?
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GaryC

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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 05:42:06 PM »

My 04C car has original side post.
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 10:58:34 PM »

Gary,
Your car came with side-posts.

Danny,
Yours would be the earliest I know of.
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 10:06:13 AM »

Great. Thanks Kurt.
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GaryC

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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »

This ebay auction is what really got me into looking deeper into the side post batteries and cables. Are the part numbers different for factory installed versus over the counter or...? 69 AIM page 162 UPC 12 A11 has positive cable part number 6297683 and negative part number 6297650. The part numbers on the cables in the auction are different than the AIM. Just curious what is correct?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Z28-survivor-battery-cables-X77-after-5-69-302DZ-6297684AS-6297651AV-gm-/330741859104?hash=item4d01c04320&item=330741859104&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr#ht_425wt_1043
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GaryC

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 01:37:56 PM »

My original cables have the same part numbers as the ones in the auction...  but I'd NEVER pay $800 for old stiff original cables if I didn't have them!!  Smiley

I considered replacing mine a couple of years ago, so I did some searching around on the internet.. and found these parts:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-CAMARO-Z28-SS-POSITIVE-BATTERY-CABLE-302-327-350-SIDE-POST-OE-FACTORY-CORRECT-/190721486216
which were the closest in appearance to the originals.   The part numbers on the pictured cables are different, and I didn't check if they had the correct PN's, nor did I verify the cable lengths..
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 01:46:37 PM »

Lectric Limited is supposed to be a dead ringer for a reproduction cable. Might check with them.             http://www.lectriclimited.com/
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 02:34:09 PM »

For curiousity sake, I called Lectric Limited.   They do not have the battery cables we are discussing for the late Z28's (6297684AS or 6297651AV).  They also raised question on late Camaros having side post terminals, but that's a different question altogether.  The fella on the phone hypothesized that perhaps only cars with HD batterys got the side terminal cables, since the AIM (that he has) didn't have the side post cables listed?
I've also made inquiry with Bowtie Muscle Car Parts, requesting length and PN on their '69 Camaro Z28 sidepost battery cables, but haven't yet heard back on those questions.   Meantime, I extracted my cables, stretched them out, measured them and photographed the ends, part numbers, etc.

Positive Cable:    printed PN  6297684AS, length ~42" (eye to eye) with a ~19-20" small lead wire.
Negative Cable:   printed PN 6297651AV, length  ~32" (eye to eye) with a ~8.5" attached smaller wire.
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2013, 03:05:34 PM »

Somewhere alone the line then the side post cables had a change in construction or whatever and went to a different part number I assume. The AIM drawing is dated 4-29  and released 5-13 and the last date noted in the revisions is 7-7-69 which doesn't indicate a change at least on the part numbers. Out of curiosity Gary what date is your car? Mine is 06A and I'm pretty sure it is a first week car based on the VIN. Didn't you tell me it was September in one of your PM's? Wondering if the plant was getting ready for the new models and the new numbered wires were being used then. Something to think about.
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GaryC

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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2013, 03:11:26 PM »

Sorry !!  MY bad Gary but I guess my memory is going faster than I thought. I got mine from Classic Muscle but of course I have the lowly L48.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2013, 10:06:06 PM »

No problem Tmodel! 
Actually I got a call back from Bowtie Muscle Parts later this afternoon, and Mara gave me the part numbers of the side post battery cable parts she has for the late '69 Z28.  (Lectric Limited is her supplier, but she gave me better information than I got from LL).  The two parts are numbered: 6297683AR and 6297650?), and the lengths she stated are 1" longer than I measured from mine (but note that mine originals are old and stiff and I may not have stretched them out perfectly straight when measuring).   

From the info she gave me, these cables seem the closest to what I believe are original as you can get today. 
Note:  Mara also mentioned that Lectric Limited *could probably* make the cables to whatever length was needed - although I think the lengths she gave are good!, and she also said LL could probably print whatever number was desired?   Her price was $55 each, and they are very good to deal with.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 10:25:40 AM »

Ok, I think there are still some unanswered questions here. So what I'm deciphering, for a normal run of the mill June built 69 Z28 it should have received a Y77 side post battery with negative on the left and positve on the right when it left the plant. Is this correct? Was the R79 battery an optiontional replacement and if it was, why?

Something I am also curious about is the reproduction battery cables and store bought batteries. All the cables offered online don't indicate the attaching bolt sizes for + and -. Anyone buy cables lately to verify if the bolt sizes are correct especially if you have an original battery? And what about todays normal store bought batteries, will you be able to use the original factory cables with them?

I think having this info up front would really save us all from buying the wrong parts. What do you think?
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GaryC

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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2013, 11:07:55 AM »

1) I think your post is incorrect re the 'terminal polarities'..   See the pix of the Y77 from the CRG info site, attached below.  you can see the polarity is POS on the left, and NEG on the right!
2) Per the CRG information on batteries, the R79 was a HD option to the Y77 (also POS on the left and NEG on the right) per the photos.
3) The original batteries (Y77) used different sized screw threads for Pos and Neg, but I believe all currently available batteries use 3/8" screws.  Note:  The screws inside the cables are removable/replaceable if you happen to have the wrong size and own a NOS Y77, OR the 3/8" screw can be cut down and re-die to 5/16" if needed.   
4) Y77 batteries are no longer made or reproduced to my knowledge, but the R79 is available in reproduction ($340?). and you can buy a R79 battery 'topper' for $49 to capture 'the look'.
I believe the above is accurate as of 'today', and I'm sure someone will correct me if it isn't.. Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2013, 12:03:30 PM »

Yes, positive on the right and negative on the left if your looking a the battery installed and facing the engine. The pic is correct. I was thinking of going back to the original side post look sometime since what I have installed now is incorrect and I'll need a new battery in the next year or two. Getting close. I'm going to guess that the reproduction cables offered all have the 5/16 head on both pos. and neg. cables, which is fine with me. As for the current batteries being sold, I'm sure Delco has a decent replacement for the Y77, at least I hope they do.

I was doing some online searches a few minutes ago and just found a post saying that the different size attaching bolts were an issue and were eventually changed. Knowing this will help cut done on the time it will take locating replacement parts, at least for me anyway. If you have the original equipment cables and the extra funds to purchase a known good NOS battery that would be good for some but I'm not that worried about it.

So someone is reproducing the side post battery topper now. I think ALL the stuff I've been reading is a bit dated for the most part. I'll have to look into what is out there.   

1) I think your post is incorrect re the 'terminal polarities'..   See the pix of the Y77 from the CRG info site, attached below.  you can see the polarity is POS on the left, and NEG on the right!
2) Per the CRG information on batteries, the R79 was a HD option to the Y77 (also POS on the left and NEG on the right) per the photos.
3) The original batteries (Y77) used different sized screw threads for Pos and Neg, but I believe all currently available batteries use 3/8" screws.  Note:  The screws inside the cables are removable/replaceable if you happen to have the wrong size and own a NOS Y77, OR the 3/8" screw can be cut down and re-die to 5/16" if needed.   
4) Y77 batteries are no longer made or reproduced to my knowledge, but the R79 is available in reproduction ($340?). and you can buy a R79 battery 'topper' for $49 to capture 'the look'.
I believe the above is accurate as of 'today', and I'm sure someone will correct me if it isn't.. Smiley
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GaryC

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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2013, 01:10:20 PM »

Yes, positive on the right and negative on the left if your looking a the battery installed and facing the engine. The pic is correct. ....

Sorry~  Smiley   I started to say something about 'right' and 'left' being relative..  depending on where one was viewing from.. Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2013, 02:00:11 PM »

That's ok Gary. I was wondering if you would catch that.

Yes, positive on the right and negative on the left if your looking a the battery installed and facing the engine. The pic is correct. ....

Sorry~  Smiley   I started to say something about 'right' and 'left' being relative..  depending on where one was viewing from.. Smiley
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GaryC

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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2013, 03:39:42 PM »

Hey guys, I've been trying to find the part number for an AC Delco side post battery for my Z and can't seem to find anything except top post and the dual top and side post. Is there a side post only battery or am I going to be stuck with the dual or a top only?
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2013, 07:43:26 PM »

not to get too far off the subject,
when was the HD battery used? what qualified the hd battery use?
I ask because my 06A had the top post cables - when it clearly should have the side post
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2013, 08:19:02 PM »

Quote
when was the HD battery used? what qualified the hd battery use?

RPO T60 was available on any car but I would imagine they sold more in the northeast and midwest where it get's COLD.

Ed
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2013, 08:30:15 PM »

Would it have been more likely on a C60?
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2013, 08:35:16 PM »

It was probably much more likely on a 'customer ordered' car.  I've special ordered a few new cars in the past ('70 RR, '73 RR, '77 MC, etc), and each time I did I always ordered *every* HD option they had, which usually included 'HD Cooling', HD battery, HD suspension, etc.    The key was that when it was specified on the order, the additional cost was minimal!   Typically dealer orders did not specify such things, because customers buying cars off the lot likely believed they were all the same.. and all it did was add to the dealer cost.  Example:   Hemi suspension on my '70 RR was an additional $25, and the 15x7 Rallye wheels were an additional $43.   I don't recall what the HD cooling and HD battery were, but it was typically 10-20 ea...
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2013, 08:43:49 PM »

Quote
Would it have been more likely on a C60?

Not necessarily. C60 came with the 61amp alternator, so a heavy duty battery wouldn't have been required. Remember, the only job the battery has is to start the car. Once that's been accomplished, the alternator takes over and powers everything.

Ed
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« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2013, 12:46:46 AM »

Remember, the only job the battery has is to start the car. Once that's been accomplished, the alternator takes over and powers everything.
Actually, an alternator puts out very little power at idle. Just off idle and the output goes up considerably. Not a big deal on an old Camaro where there were few electrical loads.

But on a new car, the battery contributes at idle. After 2-3 hours of idling, the battery may be completely discharged (depending on conditions). This is always a concern for emergency vehicles that idle a lot.
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2013, 07:50:01 AM »

Hey guys, I've been trying to find the part number for an AC Delco side post battery for my Z and can't seem to find anything except top post and the dual top and side post. Is there a side post only battery or am I going to be stuck with the dual or a top only?
Gary - You looking for a new Delco, a reproduction R79 or after market with side post?
Duralast by AutoZone makes a side post, and a reproduction is available http://www.restorationbattery.com/r79s.html
http://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/catalog/catalog_search.php lists several side post - note to get the only side options use year 1970 otherwise 1969 is coded to give you dual posts due to the change over.

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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2013, 08:51:26 AM »

Hey pace, Initially I wanted to get a Delco side post, but I can use a Duralast if I can't find a Delco. I just need to find the numbers for each one so I can go look at them to make sure before I buy. I don't need a reproduction. My problem also is what side post cables to purchase and where to get them. If my car came with the Y77 I kind of would like to get back to that look of the side post. Looks cleaner then the top most.


Hey guys, I've been trying to find the part number for an AC Delco side post battery for my Z and can't seem to find anything except top post and the dual top and side post. Is there a side post only battery or am I going to be stuck with the dual or a top only?
Gary - You looking for a new Delco, a reproduction R79 or after market with side post?
Duralast by AutoZone makes a side post, and a reproduction is available http://www.restorationbattery.com/r79s.html
http://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/catalog/catalog_search.php lists several side post - note to get the only side options use year 1970 otherwise 1969 is coded to give you dual posts due to the change over.


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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2013, 09:22:37 AM »

I saw two different sizes of AC Delco side post ONLY batteries last week in a local shop on a battery rack, so they should be available wherever AC Delco is sold..  like your Chevy dealer and many more places.. Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2013, 09:41:50 AM »

Just to clear up any confusion, at least for me anyway, the 69 AIM has 6297683 positive and 6297650 negative for the cables, and what is noted on the OEM cables in the ebay auction link I posted is 6297684 AS positive and 6297651 AV negative. Which of these are the correct printed numbers to look for on the reproductions? Been looking at all available reproductions online and the only seller that show printed numbers on the cables is HBC and those are the 69 AIM numbers. Not that this really makes a lot difference but I might go with Ricks. Anybody bought Ricks? Are the attaching bolts the same size? I don't really care as long as I can screw them on a modern Delco or Duralast battery. The different sizes screws are that important.
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2013, 09:43:30 AM »

Not much in the local area for anything AC Delco unless I hit the dealer up.

I saw two different sizes of AC Delco side post ONLY batteries last week in a local shop on a battery rack, so they should be available wherever AC Delco is sold..  like your Chevy dealer and many more places.. Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2013, 05:52:14 PM »

Gary - Right now there is only one size of side cables in use for new and reproduction batteries.
ONLY the original factory and short run service batteries used the two different sizes. Sometime in the mid to late seventies the standard was changed to the current same bolt size both terminals.
There are guys here who are still running the original two sized bolts and they have to tap and Die the odd terminal to accept the larger bolt on the original cable. Too much work and I'm not drilling into the side of an acid filled battery.

As a side note - My Z-11 came to me with side post gm cables dated Feb 1980 and a side post Delco battery. The cables are both the same size bolt. I just assume somewhere down the line the Chevrolet dealership swapped over to side - My build date is 03B which I think is too soon for the change over at Norwood but maybe not? But I assumed it came out of Norwood with top post battery option.

I bought a Delco Freedom in 1984 for her. Last year I replaced that same "Maintenance Free" Delco Freedom - Yeah it lasted that long but then again I pried off the caps as back then they weren't glued shut and kept it topped off with distilled water.

I searched high and low and got caught in the selector trap and could only find expensive dual post offerings. I got smart and shopped by physical size and cold cranking amps - then I discovered the trap. "The Selector Trap" for 1969 Camaro owners:  All the majors (Sears, AutoZone, Delco, National etc) have set their product finders for the 1969 Camaro to select dual post because of the switch over from top to side just to limit the returns for wrong terminals - one would think they would list #xxxxx for top and #zzzzzz for side post but no.  So either X out of any "help me find the right battery" or "enter your vehicle information" scripts or pop ups, or lie and say 1968 if you want top post, 1970 if you want side post Smiley

I purchased a DuraLast Gold 78-DLG - It's specs are 800 Cold Cranking Amps, 1000 Cold Cranking Amps at 32 degrees with a reserve of 110 amps.  Wasn't too expensive either well under 100 bucks with in store 20 buck coupon.
Here is the link to what I bought Gary:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-5yc1s?itemIdentifier=53436
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2013, 08:52:10 AM »

I'm not too worried about originality where the battery and cables are concerned. Kind of tough on the owners who have the oem cables trying to find a battery that matches their cables. Now I just have to find the right cables to buy now that I know what year battery. Thanks Pace.
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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2013, 10:33:23 AM »

I'm satisfied now, the local Chevy dealer here has the 78-6YR for $124.00 with a $16.00 core charge in stock so I will go with it. I looked at Lectric Limited's cables and will probably go with those, $48.00 a piece. Any opinions?

Thanks guys. Good info if anyone wants to make that change from top post to side post battery and cables.  
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« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2013, 09:20:23 PM »

You can go with current GM cables as well.
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« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2013, 09:35:22 PM »

Hey Pace. When I spoke to the dealer today about the battery I asked about cables for the 69 Camaro also, but no dice. Do you an idea what to get if I can get them local?


You can go with current GM cables as well.
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2013, 05:25:17 AM »

Yeah you can pick up side post battery cables at any auto parts place such as AutoZone or Nappa.
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« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2013, 03:24:44 AM »

Hey guys, here is a link for the pics of the LL side post battery cables I bought. This will take you to my post on the Yenko site. Just scroll down a little and you'll see them.

 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/530652#Post530652
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