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Author Topic: What carb date for my 06A early June Z  (Read 3684 times)
69Z28
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« on: April 14, 2013, 12:54:11 AM »

Hi guys. Is a 4053 dated 934 too far out for my 06A early, as in 653104, June Z? I'm looking at one now I would like to pick up if the date is ok.
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GaryC

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 07:03:46 AM »

What is your engine assembly date?
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69Z28
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 08:43:19 AM »

V0604DZ cast date on block is E 28 9 heads are E 28 9 and F 1 9

What is your engine assembly date?
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GaryC

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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 11:12:20 AM »

Carbs were installed during vehicle assembly, not at the engine plants.

My db has Z/28s in that time frame with carbs dated 933, 943, 952. 934 would have been possible.
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WorkinProgress
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 12:51:27 PM »

My 05E build Norwood car is (a little over) one thousand serial numbers less than your car Gary. Engine stamp V0514DZ with carb dated 943.

Bill, why were the carbs not included with the engine assembly? Distributors were, as I was told that is why they have the chisel marks on the intake, and distributor neck for basic timing alignment. Those marks were there in case the dist was disturbed during transit. So why not ship with carb attached? No gasoline would be included at that stage.

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JohnZ
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 01:12:36 PM »

<< why were the carbs not included with the engine assembly? Distributors were, as I was told that is why they have the chisel marks on the intake, and distributor neck for basic timing alignment. Those marks were there in case the dist was disturbed during transit. So why not ship with carb attached? No gasoline would be included at that stage. >>

Engines were shipped "bare-naked" from the engine plants - they didn't need carburetors, as they were hot-tested using natural gas. The engine plants would have needed to stock thousands of carburetors to cover the hundreds of different car and truck engine suffixes they built every day. Photo below was taken on the Flint V-8 shipping dock in 1955, and the as-shipped state of engine dress didn't change much for the next 20 years.
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 01:46:27 PM »

V0604DZ cast date on block is E 28 9 heads are E 28 9 and F 1 9

What is your engine assembly date?

My 06A Z28 ( owned since 73) has the original carb 100% for sure, my engine is VO527DZ and my carb is 9-5-2 ( May 2 week)
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 02:10:53 PM »

Thanks for the explanation JohnZ about the carburetors!

So the distributors were not installed with the engine assembly when shipped as they were shipped naked? Was the distributor that was tested with the engine reunited at the car assembly plant? When were those chisel marks done at the final assembly of the car?

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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 03:05:49 PM »

Warren,
The pic shows the distributor in place, and I believe it was shipped to the dress line as such, but John will give you the definative answer on that.
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69Z28
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 03:44:35 PM »

Thanks fellas. I am thinking of putting in a bid for this carb. What do you think? I'm really looking for a 943 but haven't found a core yet in 14 years of looking. Everyone wants to sell me a restored one and I don't want a restored one. I want the patina to match what I have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200915392744?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_306wt_1043
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GaryC

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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 07:23:25 PM »

Thanks fellas. I am thinking of putting in a bid for this carb. What do you think? I'm really looking for a 943 but haven't found a core yet in 14 years of looking. Everyone wants to sell me a restored one and I don't want a restored one. I want the patina to match what I have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200915392744?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_306wt_1043

IMO it is TOO EARLY, (Read my post above, my carb is 9-5-2 and my DZ engine stamp is before yours), I honestly don't see how a March carb can find its way onto a June car, 2 weeks to 4 weeks is the norm, with 4 even being a stretch.

Seller says - " very nice and the factory choke set up work perfect too",    I don't see how that is possible, it is missing the fast idle Lever and Plastic Fast Idle Cam. You should ask him for a picture of the LH rear drivers corner to see if it has the original non reinforced base plate.
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william
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 09:46:09 PM »

Once again engines were furnished to the assembly plants without carb. The inventory of carbs was there, not at Flint so the carb date is unrelated to when the engine was built.

There are 30-40 known build dates for 4053 carbs covering the 1969 model year. That means they were batch-built 400-500 units at a time. As a Tier 1 supplier there is no way carbs were 'made to order'; they were shipped from finished goods inventory. They sat in stock at Holley; they sat in stock at the plant. There was no first-in first-out requirement. If it was the correct part it was used regardless of date. My data shows 943 carbs as late as August '69.

 
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rszmjt
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 10:24:44 PM »

Once again engines were furnished to the assembly plants without carb. The inventory of carbs was there, not at Flint so the carb date is unrelated to when the engine was built.

There are 30-40 known build dates for 4053 carbs covering the 1969 model year. That means they were batch-built 400-500 units at a time. As a Tier 1 supplier there is no way carbs were 'made to order'; they were shipped from finished goods inventory. They sat in stock at Holley; they sat in stock at the plant. There was no first-in first-out requirement. If it was the correct part it was used regardless of date. My data shows 943 carbs as late as August '69.

  

Thanks. Good point.  That may be the case but I posted my carb date/engine build date as a reference so comparisons could be made. I understand that carbs were probably not rotated like groceries with pull dates, and a wider date range is known to exist. The Ebay 4053 Mar 2 week carb in question could probably work for Gary, but seeing as the posted 05E Z28 1,000 serial numbers less has a April 3 week carb, do you think that would be considered normal?
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69Z28
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2013, 04:37:36 AM »

ok, so a 934 wouldn't be out of the question? I'll send an email to find out about the missing pieces and the base plate.

NOTE:
I sent email just waiting for a response.
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GaryC

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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 08:41:57 AM »

Yes, 934 would be possible. My 05D Los Angeles built 68 Camaro has its original 4053 with a date code of 833, so you can see it's dated two months before the car was built.

Ed
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69Z28
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2013, 09:11:17 AM »

Thanks Ed. Still waiting for a eply about the missing pieces.
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GaryC

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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 11:40:16 AM »

Thanks for the explanation JohnZ about the carburetors!

So the distributors were not installed with the engine assembly when shipped as they were shipped naked? Was the distributor that was tested with the engine reunited at the car assembly plant? When were those chisel marks done at the final assembly of the car?

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As you can see in the photo I posted, the engine as-shipped included the distributor, but very little else in terms of bolt-on parts; anything you don't see in the photo was installed at the car assembly plants.
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 11:50:47 AM »

This is the reply I just recv'd about the carb, no pic was supplied when I asked. Actually I tested the reserve ($500.00), yeah risky I know, and it hasn't been met yet. Not sure if I should trust it.


This is it's original 4053 Base plate. It has 3 vacuum sources, an angled 1/8" port directly under the primary float bowl which was used for the choke pull-off and/or smog system vacuum source, a 3/16" vacuum port on the right front corner for the vacuum advance, and a stepped 3/8" port on the right rear corner for the PCV hose. The Fast Idle Lever is missing, the Factory Screw is intact. Found one here on ebay for 10 bucks.


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GaryC

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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 01:33:18 PM »

If I was to look for those parts would they be hard to find? I have 5 sheets a friend gave me in 1975 from a HOLLEY CARBURETION VARIABLE SPECIFICATIONS AND PARTS counter book , page 81 and 82 showing the 4053 carb numbers, page 240 that has the exploded view of the 4150 TYPICAL VIEW ILLUSTRATION NO 34-1, page 241, 243 with part names and index numbers.

Fast idle cam is (136)41R-539 and the fast idle lever is (6)4R-852. The missing screw is not found. Just wondering if if I should waste my time on this or let it go.
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GaryC

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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 04:56:34 PM »

I have a 954 and been looking almost a year for a late January/ February.  Tough to find and not paying 1500!
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 05:38:54 PM »

If I was to look for those parts would they be hard to find? I have 5 sheets a friend gave me in 1975 from a HOLLEY CARBURETION VARIABLE SPECIFICATIONS AND PARTS counter book , page 81 and 82 showing the 4053 carb numbers, page 240 that has the exploded view of the 4150 TYPICAL VIEW ILLUSTRATION NO 34-1, page 241, 243 with part names and index numbers.

Fast idle cam is (136)41R-539 and the fast idle lever is (6)4R-852. The missing screw is not found. Just wondering if if I should waste my time on this or let it go.

Al at Chicago Corvette will have those parts, but they are probably expensive. I was reading the sellers reply, he doesnt have a clue what he is talking about, they dont use a screw for the fast idle, the missing lever has a tang that is bent/adjusted to set the fast idle on the Fast Idle cam steps. They are not $10. You should insist he post a picture of the drivers side of the carb, as well as a under neath shot, its no trouble to add pictures, if he doesnt want to comply dont bid. I have seen many DZ carbs with the later issue reinforced baseplate, (originals were prone to breaking on the LR corner) plus the wrong accelerator pump housing and lever, originals use clutch screws., plus ask him the secondary metering block number, it should be 4519




« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 07:02:57 PM by rszmjt » Logged
69Z28
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2013, 07:03:54 PM »

I found the lever...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holley-4R-852-Fast-Idle-Cam-Lever-Corvette-Camaro-Nova-Chevelle-SS-427-LT1-/271165763331?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f22bd2f03&vxp=mtr#ht_180wt_1043

and here is the cam...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holley-Choke-Cam-Green-41R539-/170549845514#ht_1211wt_806


Got new pics added to the auction but no info on the rear metering block.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200915392744?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649#ht_436wt_1043
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 08:08:10 PM by 69Z28 » Logged

GaryC

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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2013, 11:14:02 PM »

Those are the "correct missing choke parts"
Accelerator Pump housing looks like it has clutch screws, and the baseplate is the original unreinforced line installed. The choke pull off has been changed at 1 time as it appears to be a straight nipple. Original 4053 has a small bend in the nipple where the vacumn line pushed on. No Big Deal.
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2013, 07:34:08 AM »

I'll keep you posted. Not sure how much I should bid on it though. What do you guys think? I took it to $500.00 and didin't reach the reserve. I think someone else went fishing to see what I bid and then stopped when they reached my bid and hasn't gone any further. I hate it when that happens.
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GaryC

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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2013, 04:49:19 AM »

Gary, I saw that carb sold for $776; were you the high bidder?
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 07:24:43 AM »

No...it got sniped out from under me at the last second. Man that is upsetting.

Gary, I saw that carb sold for $776; were you the high bidder?
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 06:14:43 PM »

No...it got sniped out from under me at the last second. Man that is upsetting.
That's a PITA. Hopefully another one will show up soon.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2013, 07:51:49 PM »

I've been looking for 13 years and have only seen maybe 3 I could bid on. All the ones that are on ebay are way over priced and restored on top of that. I'm just looking for a good core to rebuild. Somebody has to be sitting on these carbs. Or all the carbs made have been destroyed.
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GaryC

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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 08:23:05 PM »

you can still buy new ones..  if the date isn't as important as the function and the look... made by Holley!
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 12:01:35 AM »

Yeah I know. I'm currently using a service replacement now, dated 0811. I also have a 4777 650 dbl pumper I set up that works quite well if I want to fool around. I like that carb, but it makes my gas gauge needle move too fast towards empty. Works really good with the -140 cam too. I still want to find an OEM though. 


you can still buy new ones..  if the date isn't as important as the function and the look... made by Holley!
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GaryC

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« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2013, 08:37:44 AM »

I have a couple of extra bodies and metering blocks I got with a car long ago... what date are you looking for?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28
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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2013, 12:22:04 PM »

I think anywhere from April to end of May would probably work. Ed says even the 934 would be ok. So 94X, 95X might be fine but I don't know if too close for V0604DZ. I'm hearing carbs can be dated past engine build date? Is that correct? I do have a 4519 block that came with the car when I bought it.


I have a couple of extra bodies and metering blocks I got with a car long ago... what date are you looking for?
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GaryC

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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2013, 05:36:58 PM »

I'm hearing carbs can be dated past engine build date? Is that correct?
Back on page 1, William and JohnZ confirmed that engines were hot-tested using natural gas, and carbs were installed on the vehicle assembly line, so maybe it was possible for the carb date to be (slightly) later than the engine assembly date. However, surely that would only be possible if the engine was assembled more than a couple of weeks before the car? If so, a later carb than engine would probably be the exception rather than the norm, especially considering the supply chain lead time. Interesting to hear opinions on that one.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2013, 10:05:24 AM »

I have a '941' and an '822' body, both with 4519 and 5583 metering blocks and associated parts; I might be short a couple of bowls for one of them?  The 941 is 'sorta promised' to a camaro buddy.. although we haven't closed the deal after 2-3 yrs.. Smiley

I think anywhere from April to end of May would probably work. Ed says even the 934 would be ok. So 94X, 95X might be fine but I don't know if too close for V0604DZ. I'm hearing carbs can be dated past engine build date? Is that correct? I do have a 4519 block that came with the car when I bought it.

I have a couple of extra bodies and metering blocks I got with a car long ago... what date are you looking for?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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