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Author Topic: Black paint on rocker question.  (Read 3870 times)
69Z28
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« on: April 06, 2013, 07:04:42 AM »

Was checking this car out since the ebay auction stated that it was original paint car and noticed that in the pics I don't see any black paint on the rockers. IF this a is an original paint car would the plant actually miss painting this? Would this happen? My car is a Cortez Silver car with maybe 3 repaints but the rockers were never repainted and am curious if I should add the black or leave it off.


http://www.ecarlist.com/showroom/2999/photos/7204593#08
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GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 08:13:03 AM »

"Body sill black-out paint was applied to Z22 (RS) cars in 1967 and 1968, and to Z21 (style trim), Z22 (RS), and COPO 9560/9561 cars in 1969."

http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#BlackoutPaint


Unless the car you are looking at has one of the options listed above, then it would not have the body sill black out. It is not a COPO or a Z22 RS car, and I do not see any of the Z21 exterior style trim (bright wheel opening moldings, bright drip moldings (coupe). Fender pinstriping (67 & 69). Bright belt moldings (68). Rear fender louvers), on the car in the link. I would say that no the body sills should not be black out and should be the same as the body color.
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69Z28
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 01:28:13 PM »

Yeah I read that. Ok. Mine is an 69 X33, has all the exterior brite trim. Non RS, no deluxe interior just standard 711 interior, has the pedal trim and the rosewood trim left and right of the column and the steering wheel shroud and has the dash grab handle. With that trim should or shouldn't my car have the black rockers? I'm assuming the X77 did not get the black rockers based on these pics, correct?

"Body sill black-out paint was applied to Z22 (RS) cars in 1967 and 1968, and to Z21 (style trim), Z22 (RS), and COPO 9560/9561 cars in 1969."

http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#BlackoutPaint


Unless the car you are looking at has one of the options listed above, then it would not have the body sill black out. It is not a COPO or a Z22 RS car, and I do not see any of the Z21 exterior style trim (bright wheel opening moldings, bright drip moldings (coupe). Fender pinstriping (67 & 69). Bright belt moldings (68). Rear fender louvers), on the car in the link. I would say that no the body sills should not be black out and should be the same as the body color.
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GaryC

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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 03:05:03 PM »

Style Trim codes are X11, X33. With the exception of the darker colors noted these cars would have black rocker panels. Black rockers were also part of SS equipment; X22, X55, X66 would also have them.

The Cortez Silver Z/28 in question is X77 and would not have black rockers.

The COPO notation is incorrect; had nothing to do with trim.
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69Z28
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 04:15:50 PM »

Thanks William. Been wanting to find that out for a while. So my X33 should have blacked out rockers. I just saw a pic of a Lemans Blue SS with the blacked out rockers but it looked too overly done. When the rockers were sprayed I thought I had read somewhere that the rockers were not painted completely underneath and the lip underneath mostly got overspray. Is that correct?


Style Trim codes are X11, X33. With the exception of the darker colors noted these cars would have black rocker panels. Black rockers were also part of SS equipment; X22, X55, X66 would also have them.

The Cortez Silver Z/28 in question is X77 and would not have black rockers.

The COPO notation is incorrect; had nothing to do with trim.
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GaryC

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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 08:48:30 PM »

Rockers have 3 surfaces; just the vertical surfaces were painted black.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 10:24:42 PM »

Attached below is a photo of the factory paint on my rockers showing what has been stated about the rocker paint...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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69Z28
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 04:40:30 AM »

Great pic. Just what I was looking for. I wonder how different each car was or were the rockers sprayed they same way every time? 



Attached below is a photo of the factory paint on my rockers showing what has been stated about the rocker paint...
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GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 06:33:14 AM »

Rockers were sprayed by humans, by hand so they can vary in coverage area significantly.  All should have a straight tape line thru the center of the spear mounting holes though.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 08:27:47 PM »

The COPO notation is incorrect; had nothing to do with trim.
Good catch. Fixed.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 04:13:01 PM »

Does anybody have a paint code for this blacked out area?

Thanks
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »

The COPO notation is incorrect; had nothing to do with trim.
Good catch. Fixed.
Thanks I was wondering about that myself when I posted it but was not as sure as you guys.
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69Z28freak
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 06:53:52 PM »

So what is the right paint to use. There has been a difference of opinion from what I have read. Is it the same color as the rear black out panel? or is it the same color as the paint used for black stripes. It is not often that we get to see original rocker black out paint. I am going to paint mine soon and I want to make sure that I use the right paint.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 09:17:37 PM »

From looking at mine, I'm guessing it's the same 'black' used for the black Z28 stripes...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
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69Z28freak
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 11:20:01 PM »

From looking at mine, I'm guessing it's the same 'black' used for the black Z28 stripes...

That is great news Steve. I painted the rockers when my car was painted last time and I used trim black, which was recommended for the firewall and engine compartment. I however did not like that finish, so I am now correcting it.

Also i noticed on the bottom of my car much like yours, that the original paint is much glossier than I would have imagined, before I removed the under coating. The same on my friends original paint survivor. I am trying to find out how to match that color as well. According to your picture there are 3 different colors of black on the rockers. I want to get all of the colors/shade/amount of gloss correct this time around.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 11:25:00 PM »

It's not three different *colors*, it's just three different surfaces which received differeing amounts of paint.   The rockers were pianted quickly apparently, and the more vertical surfaces got more paint then the horizontal and angled surfaces..  ie.   same paint..  different degrees of coverage. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28freak
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 02:52:54 AM »

It's not three different *colors*, it's just three different surfaces which received differeing amounts of paint.   The rockers were pianted quickly apparently, and the more vertical surfaces got more paint then the horizontal and angled surfaces..  ie.   same paint..  different degrees of coverage. Smiley

Makes sense. Thats what it looks like on your car. Thanks for the confirmation.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 03:01:15 AM »

Mike, to me it looks as though Gary's rocker picture shows primer, semi-gloss black (on the vertical rocker surfaces), and body-colored overspray. The rocker black may appear different because of how the light is hitting the various surface angles.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 03:32:37 AM »

Mike, to me it looks as though Gary's rocker picture shows primer, semi-gloss black (on the vertical rocker surfaces), and body-colored overspray. The rocker black may appear different because of how the light is hitting the various surface angles.

Hey Tim I am trying to confirm which paint was used on the rocker panel. If it was the same paint as used on the black stripe or the black out panel on big block cars, which appeared to be more of a semi gloss than the gloss of the body stripes.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2013, 04:38:45 AM »

SOMEBODY has to know this. I would think semigloss, satin, flat? Like the tail panel makes sense. I mean how many different kinds of paint was mixed in a given day?
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GaryC

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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2013, 05:55:42 AM »

The CRG 'exterior' page, section 7, states semi-gloss:
"Certain first-generation Camaro models had semi-gloss black-out paint applied to the body to influence the appearance. There were two types: a "ground-effect" black-out applied to the rocker-panel/body-sill area for certain exterior trim options and a blacked-out tailpan applied to SS-396 cars."
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2013, 07:21:24 AM »

Because of how the light and camera angle changes the appearance of the gloss it's hard to nail down. I just painted my rockers & tail-pan and used these pictures for reference. The gloss black with satin black tail-pan is on a 5000 mile 69, the other picture is over spray at the front of my rocker. That area is protected from road rash and shows it was pretty glossy like the tail-pan. I will try to get a picture of my finish and ask my painter about his mix. I think he got it spot on. George
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tmodel66
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2013, 07:36:55 AM »

Jerry's book says 75 to 85 % gloss.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2013, 08:43:11 AM »

Jerry's book says 75 to 85 % gloss.
That's what uncut and unbuffed lacquer looks like. Using a screen or photo to determine exact gloss levels is not accurate. Neither is some of the actual reference people use to hit a target. Trying to explain this to non painters is often futile. Here's a link with another original tailpanel photo: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=217976
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69Z28
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2013, 10:11:09 AM »

Ok. Looks like satin or flat is out. Pics show a shine but not too glossy.
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GaryC

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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 10:23:45 AM »

Sauron327, Very true statement. When I was trying to come up with a formula for amount of gloss and a reference for my painter best info was a sample. His 35 year experience and being a perfectionist told him how to mix & spray the paint. With today's 2 stage paints it doubles the variables that can effect the finish. 75-80% gloss doesn't mean the same to all painters. Thank you for all your paint & body info, its a great asset to the forums.
Here are 2 pictures of my finish, looks better than the photo. George
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69Z28freak
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 05:41:44 PM »

Sauron327, Very true statement. When I was trying to come up with a formula for amount of gloss and a reference for my painter best info was a sample. His 35 year experience and being a perfectionist told him how to mix & spray the paint. With today's 2 stage paints it doubles the variables that can effect the finish. 75-80% gloss doesn't mean the same to all painters. Thank you for all your paint & body info, its a great asset to the forums.
Here are 2 pictures of my finish, looks better than the photo. George

Thanks George that is exactly what I was looking for. I will pass the photos and info along to my painter. Now that I can see what it looks like I can make a much better decision. Your looks great. Turned out perfect in my book. Also while I am at it. Would the gloss on the rockers be the same gloss used on trim/accessories, like air cleaner, fender braces. pulleys etc. The problem I find with all of the charts and lists that I have seen, just indicate, Gloss, 60% or 30%. This is all open to interpretation by owner and painter. So many different brands and types of paint and applications.

What did you use on the bottom of the car?
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 10:29:24 PM »

Great stuff.

Thanks to all who particpated. Now we know what the right % should be.
Love those detailed photos of the freshly painted rockers.

This is truly a great site!!!!
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69Z28freak
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 11:46:30 PM »

We are close now. Just need some paint codes and we are good to paint! Great pics indeed.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 07:04:04 AM »

The tail-pan picture is slightly out of focus, here is a better picture. 69Z28freak My floor was just slightly duller than the tail & rockers. Here is before and after shots, but before blue over spray was added. George
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Sauron327
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« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 07:58:20 AM »

George, Your floorpans appear the same % as SEM Trim Black, which is similar yet again to PPG DDL 9266.

I can show two more references of 30% and 60% black and they appear similar due to lighting and camera settings. When attemting to match gloss % from a screen one can continue ad infinitum. If someone brought me a photo I'd have to shoot a test for their approval no matter what. Go ask your shop or jobber to look at a deck. For instance, PPG has a deck containing various gloss percentages of black. Even with those a sprayout is still required.
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