Author Topic: 396 dipstick tube color???  (Read 6436 times)

DT

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396 dipstick tube color???
« on: March 23, 2013, 10:48:02 PM »
Was the dipstick tube for big blocks painted chevy orange on 69's ??
Donny

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 02:05:14 AM »
Hi Donny,

  I know you asked for a '69 but I suspect '67 was the same. My 67 assembly manual shows the stick as a separate item so I assume it was added when the engine accessories were installed during the car assembly. What does the '69 manual show? On my original unrestored '67 L35 the dip stick body still retains the factory black finished, though it is faded and I can't tell what the gloss level was, but it is definitely black. I have the notes to my other 67 I restored in the mid-80's and I recorded it black as well. Hopefully someone here with a 69 BB will chime in.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

DT

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »
Thanks for the reply Mike.  I will check the AIM.

JohnZ

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 04:13:15 PM »
Was the dipstick tube for big blocks painted chevy orange on 69's ??

No, it wasn't - the 396 dipstick tube was installed at the car assembly plant, not at the engine plant; it was natural (unpainted).
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

DT

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 05:07:46 PM »
Thanks John!!!

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 10:02:23 PM »
I have seen that stated before about being raw but I can assure you my original 396 stick body is definitely black. Unless 69 was different?

Mike

69Z28freak

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 02:51:37 AM »
I was under the impression that 69's were unpainted. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 11:59:12 AM »
I was under the impression that 69's were unpainted. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think there are many examples of not painted iin Gen 1 Camaro's along with other similar engines in other model cars. Does not mean whatsoever that what Mike has noted is incorrect on his LOS 67.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
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R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

DT

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 07:41:08 PM »
I guess it is very possible that 67's were painted black.  I will leave mine natural/unpainted.  Thanks again everyone.

169INDY

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 05:01:42 AM »
1967 BLACK.

I would offer the following as proof;
Take a peek at the Color photo that is floating around of the line in 67 where they are loading the rear into a 67 camaro body. The car behind the camaro is a BB full size, you can make out the black painted dip stick tube w NAT handle?

Jim
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS

JohnZ

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 02:43:26 PM »
1967 BLACK.

I would offer the following as proof;
Take a peek at the Color photo that is floating around of the line in 67 where they are loading the rear into a 67 camaro body. The car behind the camaro is a BB full size, you can make out the black painted dip stick tube w NAT handle?

Jim

Guess it depended on the plant - those are VERY early 67's, and in '67, St. Louis didn't paint the BB dipstick tube - maybe Van Nuys did (it was received unpainted from the supplier).

The "Painted Parts List" was issued monthly by the Chevrolet Central Office Paint Standards Department to each plant's Material and Paint Superintendents, listing every part that required paint processing at the assembly plant, and what process each part required. The Material guys got it so they could intercept the parts that needed painting, and the Paint guys got it so they could segregate the parts by the different paint processes they required. This was an internal document, not issued outside GM.

bergy

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 10:23:58 PM »
Something is definitely wrong there - look at all of the paint on the ex manifold!

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 11:35:01 PM »
Something is definitely wrong there - look at all of the paint on the ex manifold!
 Coverage depends on the artistic mood of the sprayer at the moment. Sort of like how the bell housing went anywhere from partial to full coverage.
One moment you can be like Bob Ross and another, Earl Scheib. Maybe it depends on how high the person was from the fumes?
  I attached a picture of my 67 4B LOS L35 showing the dip stick and you can see it is black.
Excuse the grease as the old gal is in need of a Cover Girl makeover.  :D

Mike

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 12:44:21 AM »
Something is definitely wrong there - look at all of the paint on the ex manifold!

Tonawanda painted big-blocks with exhaust manifolds bolted on. I have noted other pics with them showing lots of paint. In the early 70's that process was changed I believe JohnZ noted due to the workers complaints of paint burn off.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 01:01:21 AM by 68camaroz28 »

mickeystoys69RSSS

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 01:36:36 AM »
Something is definitely wrong there - look at all of the paint on the ex manifold!

I was going to say the same thing.

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 03:05:04 AM »
Lot of detail in that picture like the A-arms......

JohnZ

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 02:06:03 PM »
Photos below show the Tonawanda engine paint booth (at 300 engines per hour) and fresh racks of big-block engines; both illustrate complete paint coverage on the exhaust manifolds.

bergy

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 11:18:54 AM »
I don't remember the paint line looking like that John - any idea when that pic was taken?

JohnZ

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 04:47:40 PM »
I don't remember the paint line looking like that John - any idea when that pic was taken?

I don't recall exactly, but it was late 60's-early 70's; BB's and SB's painted on the same line.

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 05:16:37 PM »
I don't remember the paint line looking like that John - any idea when that pic was taken?

I don't recall exactly, but it was late 60's-early 70's; BB's and SB's painted on the same line.

Excellent information! Noticed the BB's were hung by manifold where the carb bolts on. Was that just for cast iron intakes or did they use that process for all Big Blocks? Is it safe or correct to assume SB's were completed the same way at Tonawanda? Was the same hanging process used at Flint?

1968RSZ28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 06:16:40 PM »
Photo below shows the Tonawanda engine paint booth (at 300 engines per hour).

WOW, I wonder if either of those painters lived to be 50?  I can't imagine painting 300 engines/hour without wearing suitable respiratory equipment!   :P

Paul

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 06:38:37 PM »
I can only assume (and hope) there was an updraft ventilation system pulling those fumes up and away from the workers otherwise Purple Haze sure had a real meaning from the buzzzz.
Certainly pre-OSHA days!

Mike

tmodel66

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 08:31:36 PM »
I painted anywhere from 3 to 6 cars a week without any kind of respirator and I'm here to tell you I wish I had spent that money and bought one. That's not including the countless hours I worked in the shop with the Bondo dust and primer flying everywhere. I'm paying for it now.
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

bergy

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 09:14:57 AM »
The side opposite the painters station is all ventillation.  Could have been later 60s - looks like a short leg water pump though. Great discussion - brings back memories.

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 09:16:45 PM »
The side opposite the painters station is all ventillation.  Could have been later 60s - looks like a short leg water pump though. Great discussion - brings back memories.
Appears to be a water curtain in front of them. :)
Was hoping John or someone in the know could answer my earlier question concerning how the big blocks are shown being painted, i.e. hanging by the intakes carb bolt holes. Earlier question- Noticed the BB's were hung by manifold where the carb bolts on. Was that just for cast iron intakes or did they use that process for all Big Blocks? Is it safe or correct to assume SB's were completed the same way at Tonawanda? Was the same hanging process used at Flint?

JohnZ

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 05:58:06 PM »
Was hoping John or someone in the know could answer my earlier question concerning how the big blocks are shown being painted, i.e. hanging by the intakes carb bolt holes. Earlier question- Noticed the BB's were hung by manifold where the carb bolts on. Was that just for cast iron intakes or did they use that process for all Big Blocks? Is it safe or correct to assume SB's were completed the same way at Tonawanda? Was the same hanging process used at Flint?

If you take another look at the photo, the second engine is a SB - they were all (SB & BB) hung the same way at Tonawanda, and the same way at Flint (starting in 1965 at Flint).

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2013, 11:56:51 PM »
Mike S,
Is that an original starter?
Bob

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 11:30:25 PM »
Mike S,
Is that an original starter?
Bob
Hi Bob,
 It's the original starter.

Mike

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2013, 02:46:18 AM »
Is that the original finish on the end plate?

Bob

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2013, 02:54:45 AM »
It must be because it was never restored. I examined it closely and it still has many areas left covered with what looks like semi-gloss black paint.

Mike

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2013, 03:14:00 AM »
If you ever take the long case bolts out let me know what you find. The end plate on my starter is natural, I did rebuild it but can not remember taking any black paint of the cover, or for that matter, why I would.
Is the cast mounting section also painted black? ???

Bob
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 03:33:11 AM by big iron »

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2013, 12:51:33 PM »
Hi Bob,

   The car is on a lift so it's easy to lower the starter and look at the nose finish. The end plate looks easy enough to remove so I can do that.
With the end bolts removed what are you looking for specifically?

Mike

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2013, 02:24:38 AM »
A consensus has been reached that the starter was completely painted as an assembly. That means that special attention would have to be taken with the cast end housings so that proper grounding would be achieved between the starter and the block for auto and bell housing for stick. As for the bolts, just looking for paint build up. Just do not remember the  end plate and casting being painted.

Bob

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2013, 02:28:21 AM »
 Let me lower the starter motor and take a look. I'll let you know what I find.

Mike

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2013, 11:19:42 PM »
Bob,

 I removed the starter motor and gave it a wiping of gunk. Good thing I took it down because the top of the solenoid was cracked and a large piece missing.
I looked at the motor and noted the following.
* The long end screws (bolts) had traces of paint on the heads and under the heads were clear so it was painted assembled.
* The nose shows no obvious signs of a 'clean area'. The picture does show the paint edge at the nose and the other shows traces of black paint all over.
* The two motor mounting bolts however show that when it was tightened it dug into the metal.
* The paint looks to be a gloss black or a shiny semi gloss.

Here is my thinking of grounding for the starter motor....the rear support that is held with a nut as shown in UPC L35/A5 may be the intended method of grounding the motor body to the block through the long main case bolt with the threaded stud on the end.

68camaroz28

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2013, 12:58:27 AM »
Per John Pirkle Jr, "All of the information Dad and I have collected(archives,pictures,and interviews with engineers and line workers from the early 50s through the early 80s) shows that the starter was painted as an assembled unit,so the rivets,pole shoe screws,etc.would also be painted.The solenoid was masked in some instances,so you saw both painted and plated units."

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2013, 03:27:38 AM »
Mike,
Do your stamped numbers on your main case show paint in them ( stamped then painted)?
Is the phenolic end that is broken black or brown?

Bob

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2013, 10:54:04 PM »
Bob,

 After carefully cleaning out the stamped letters I can clearly see black paint inside the stamped area.
There is even paint on the pin and C clip that holds the shift fork so the whole unit looks to have been painted as an assembly.
The solenoid is black with Delco in the middle. The case itself looks to be zinc.

Mike

big iron

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 07:37:31 PM »
Mike,
Did you notice if the starter mounting pad on the block has paint on it.The starter being painted black as an assembly still causes me to wonder about a good ground return. All ground wires on the Camaro have star or lock washers to achieve a good ground through painted surfaces. Looking at L35 A5 no such precaution was taken on any of the starter fasteners.
With the block being painted and the starter brace being painted, bolt #4 would not be a very good ground return even if #4 nut cut through the paint on the bracket.
Bob

Mike S

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Re: 396 dipstick tube color???
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 12:11:35 AM »
Hi Bob,

  The engine block area the starter nose contacts had several spots of paint on it. I examined the two block bolt areas carefully and though I can see paint traces around where the outside of the bolt would sit, the areas that came in contact with the metal are slightly scarred from digging and there is no paint on it that I can see and nothing on the bolt heads either that came in contact with the starter. That makes me wonder if the bolt holes were plugged when painted (and solenoid covered), sort of like when the engine had caps on things like water pump necks when being painted. That's the only thing that makes sense. I wonder of John Pirkle Jr. would know.

Mike