CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 25, 2014, 11:11:38 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
105769 Posts in 12347 Topics by 4759 Members
Latest Member: RSSSFanatic
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Restoration
| | |-+  A question for the paint system experts
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print
Author Topic: A question for the paint system experts  (Read 2250 times)
woodsman1172
Guest
« on: March 10, 2013, 05:16:01 AM »

While I appreciate the benefits of BC/CC paint systems, I don't really like the deep, glassy appearance, and would rather paint my car with a single stage paint. However, my car is Cortez Silver, and the last time I painted a metallic color in single stage, I had a lot of trouble laying down even coats. Should I just bite the bullet and go with the modern paint systems, or are there any old school tips and techniques that would help me get a uniform metallic finish with single stage?
Logged
lynnbilodeau
Member
***
Posts: 264


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 01:44:44 PM »

Thin coats.
I am no expert, but painted a Cortez silver Z in the fall of 1971 and it came out fine.  The guy I was working for just advised to go with lots of thin coats.  Too heavy and the metallic will sag.
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 10:46:52 PM »

You need to keep the paint stirred well too so you get all your metallic alike in each coat cause that stuff will settle pretty quick. I don't know about thin coats but I did paint with a little wider pattern so you don't get streaks in overlap.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1252



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 11:16:51 PM »

A stirring cup is almost a requirement when shooting paints with heavy metal flake.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
woodsman1172
Guest
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 02:43:30 AM »

Thanks for the tips guys!
Logged
69Z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 889


69 X33D80 Z28


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 12:08:57 PM »

Hey Guys. My 69Z is Cortez Silver as well and has BC/CC that was applied in 1987. Looks ok for a driver, but when it's time to repaint it my plan is to have it done the original factory way. The car has about 3 layers of paint as near as I can tell but the door jambs and trunk area still have the original factory paint in those areas. As far as paint goes I don't think you can get the original paint made up right? What would be a good substitute? Enamel? or is that what 'WAS' original. A friend has the camera that takes pics of paint to get the right colors when he paints. What do you think? Should it be done that way?
Logged

GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2463


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 09:14:32 PM »

From 1957 thru the late 70's (at least) Chevrolet painted their cars acrylic lacquer.  Prior to '57, they used an even softer nitrocellulose lacquer.   No clear coats were used over this paint in the factory, but all the cars received buffing after painit.   You can still purchase acrylic lacquers in some places I believe although it's said that the formulations are different than in '69?   If your car were not metallic, you could use a single stage urethane, and sand/buff it, and achieve a finish similar to lacquer, but it would be a much better paint job.   It's said that metallic colors are more difficult to achieve an even metallic finish using single stage?
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 889


69 X33D80 Z28


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 10:51:39 AM »

Really something to think about isn't it? Durability is what you want in a paint covering as well as a decent shine. I for one am not too worried about seeing what's happening a block away in my paint job. I suppose there are ways to paint a car to make it look factory. I kind of like the idea that you can slide your fingers across the stripe edges and feel it instead of having them buried in the clear coat. The BC/CC really is way too much if you want a car to look factory in my opinion. Plus the cars weren't exactly perfect when they left the factory like they are restored to the ninth degree today. I went and looked at a 67 RS, 327/210 auto, paint code O-2. It was Carolina Blue, no BC/CC, just single stage and it looked great without the super glossy shine. Appeared way more appealing to look at. 
Logged

GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2463


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 11:14:56 AM »

I'm old enough to remember how they looked *new*.. and that is what I like..   BC/CC is WAY too 'plastic-iky' looking for me.. Smiley    Fortunately, my car has mostly original paint but there is a bit of touch I need to do, and the hood needs to be repainted, which I wil do in lacquer.   If I were to repaint the total car, I'd use single stage and sand/rub/buff it to a lacquer like finish... (that's perfection in my eyes).. Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Azure1969Z/28
Member
***
Posts: 87


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2013, 04:18:56 PM »

I agree w/ 69Z28-RS and I think we have talked about this before. The original paint was lacquer and looks line a pretty piece of metal while the BC/CC paint jobs look like an overly shiny and deep piece of plastic. TCP Global has an affordable lacquer I believe it's called restoration shop a round $50/qt and $175/gal (they also have name brand it was around $900/gal) I think I'll try the inexpensive stuff. I haven't painted any thing lacquer for 25+ years. Painting metallic colors is tricky especially light colors because they don't have as much pigment and it's easy to want to put on too much to quick. With a light color make sure to use a light color primer/sealer (grey for silver) probably 3-4 wet coats tack time between. I always alternate between up and down strokes and side to side coats to help eliminate the dreaded zebra striping.  If you put a coat on too soon the solvents will soften the last coat and cause a sag (sometimes it's just a sap in the metallic) but still mot good. When the last coat is still quite wet turn your air pressure up and stand back like an arms length and "mist" the car. Use back and forth circular motions not directly at the surface let the paint fall onto the surface kinda like snow. this sets the metal flake in different directions instead of all laying flat. Be careful though too much or if your last coat is not wet enough you will end up w/ dry spots (using a slower reducer helps) PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. take off your deck lid and hood and perfect you technique on the under side of these first. Also TCP sells a high perf clear i or 2 wet coats of this will give you something to buff so you ate not buffing into your metallic. Remember lacquers don't have a lot of UV tolerance and  subject to crazing with expansion and contraction. Keep it in the garage. Just my opinion and old school technique I'm sure some will disagree with my method but has worked for me. Good Luck
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 05:12:10 PM »

To each his own but I could use lacquer and make it just as shiny and deep as BC/CC. About 15-20 coats and you can reach down into it and get a hand full.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Azure1969Z/28
Member
***
Posts: 87


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 08:16:56 PM »

I don't think that woodsman1172 is asking how to get a paint job that you can "reach down into it and get a hand full". The factory paint didn't look like that because they didn't use 15-20 coats. But can a BC/CC urethane job be applied to look factory paint ? I'm not sure that it can.
Logged
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 09:15:04 PM »

Guys,
I've been enjoying your conversations. I definitely am old enough to remember late sixties factory paint.  IMO, our real problem in restoration using BC/CC is you never get the look, "thin" or "deep".  More critically, if you are trying to do an authentic looking restoration, BC/CC can come close with a skilled painter, but it is never spot on in color.
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 11:40:12 PM »

I don't think that woodsman1172 is asking how to get a paint job that you can "reach down into it and get a hand full". The factory paint didn't look like that because they didn't use 15-20 coats. But can a BC/CC urethane job be applied to look factory paint ? I'm not sure that it can.

I think we are on the same page just reading it different. It was posted that BC/CC looks too deep and shiny. I made my remarks just to say that lacquer can be made to look like that too. I'm extremely happy with my paint and it don't have that thick plastic look. It really looks more like a good lacquer job or single stage. I've had several people at cruse-in's ask if it was lacquer.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Azure1969Z/28
Member
***
Posts: 87


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 12:19:00 AM »

10-4
Logged
woodsman1172
Guest
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 01:59:57 AM »

Thanks for all your replies; I'm grateful for the tips to getting an acceptable finish without having to go the BC/CC path.
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1252



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 09:13:03 AM »

To get the correct tape line edge on your stripes, base clear the car, using 1500 cut with a hard block until you see no ripples or orange peel, Layout stripes and shoot over the clear, hard block stripes and polish car, as long as the base is laid down flat after you hard block the CLEAR it will look more like polished lacquer than you can imagine.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 859



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 07:57:44 AM »

Using grits higher than 800-1000, depending on whether you are speaking of CAMI or FEPA grade, decreases mechanical adhesion for topcoats and is not recommended. I shoot flowcoats over P800 and clear lays down nicely. Single stage(SS) metallics and painters with limited experience are not a good combination. These cars were not clearcoated, they were reflowed to achieve a unifom appearance. Start buffing SS and distrupt the metallic and blotchiness is the result. Today's lacquer is not formulated like that of 43 years ago. Urethanes are superior systems. Want more paint info on lacquer and urethane from professionals in collision and restoration? Go to Refinish Network: http://www.refinishnetwork.com/ People there paint all day, every day. I stopped using lacquer in 1984 shortly after entering the industry.
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1252



View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 02:24:46 PM »

I neglected to state that I cut the actual stripe area with 600.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.084 seconds with 17 queries.