your thoughts on date code 302

[wolfie]

Hi all
Ihave a x77 built first week of may.
I would like opinions, I have access to a late febuary dated complete 302.
Do you think that is to big of a time span or a resonable date.
Thank's for your opinion

[firstgenaddict]

Possible Yes... Plausible No

[LT12NV]

Probably too early.....The most i've ever seen is about 3 weeks from engine assembly date to car build date

[dab67]

The casting date of an engine is typically within 30 days of the buid date of the engine and normally not more than 90 days before that build date. In my opinion if those dates are all within reason and your car was completed the first week of May, I don't see a problem with  using it as a "numbers matching" but not original engine. My opinion.

dab67

[william]

I have a small db of DZ engine dates relative to VIN. February is not even close to correct for an 05A car.

[x77-69z28]

i have an o5A x77 car. the casting date is d49. feb is also too early. there were three different blocks used on 69 302's. feb would be a 618 block. 05A would be an 010 block.

[jdv69z]

I have 10B build date Z; Engine assy date is Sept; Block casting date is I 23 8 - Aug; Only about 6 weeks from block casting to assembled Camaro.

Jimmy V

[dab67]

So wolfe, what is the casting number of the block??? based on x77, it should be a 618. 3 different blocks to chose from in 69, who knows what is right.

dab67

[JohnZ]

I have 10B build date Z; Engine assy date is Sept; Block casting date is I 23 8 - Aug; Only about 6 weeks from block casting to assembled Camaro.

Jimmy V

I 23 8 is September 23rd, not August.

[jdv69z]

OOPS! My mistake. Then from block casting to final assembled Camaro is only about 3 weeks.

Jimmy V

[wolfie]

Hi everyone thanks for your input.
hopefully I can find a closer dated block some day.
Sorry dab67 I can't remember the casting # ,it's been a month or so since I looked at the block.
I guess it would have helped to write all the info down.
While i am at it any thoughts on the trans #"s I should be looking for. It was originaly built with an M21close ratio
Thanks again
Wolfie

[tyrfryrtom]

Hi all
Ihave a x77 built first week of may.
I would like opinions, I have access to a late febuary dated complete 302.
Do you think that is to big of a time span or a resonable date.
Thank's for your opinion

What is the vin# stamped by the oil filter housing?

[Flowjoe]

My friend's Z is a norwood car also built 05A.  His block appeared to be original as it had a vaild build date of 0425 and a cast date of D89 and block casting number of 3932388 (as well as other tell-tale signs of correctness).  The VIN was stamped by the oil filter (although very hard to see).  My Z is also an 05A norwood car but unfortunately it has a CE block from before I owned it (I bought it in '84) so I can't add any data from there.

[firstgenaddict]

That block has been cut.
There are no broach marks at all.

[Flowjoe]

I tried to include other pictures showing the pertinent numbers but they didn't attach...here is the VIN stamping.

I'm no expert on broach marks so you could be right about the lack of broach marks. Although it didn't have the look of a block that had been entirely surfaced nor have the "fakey" broach marks added.  Besides the casting date of the block jiving with the car I thought the location of the VIN stamp (by the oil filter) was more legit.  Or put another way, if someone were to go to the trouble to locate a date correct block, surface and stamp a plausable build date why not stamp the partial VIN next to the build date as well?  (instead of hidden down on the oil filter boss)... Perhaps someone else will chime in with an opinion.

the car did have a plausible date on the carb,   a proper intake, wrong heads (dart heads originally now 186's) but a correct bottom end as well.  So at least someone went to great lengths to fake the car if it is fake...he bought it 6 or 7 years ago so before teh market went totally insane (BTW it does have an X-33 code on the trim tag)

PS I realize the VIN is nearly impossible to see in the photo but  in "real life" one can make out the numbers

[firstgenaddict]

19N640143 can't quite make out the first number after the N but being an 05A it wouldn't be anything but a 6 and the 2nd 4 could be a different number...
 As to why someone would stamp it down by the oil filter is because that is where the May built cars would have been stamped and it would be easier to pass off as a matching number engine.
Deck a block that has no vin at the bell housing flange... then restamp the build date and suffix code, then stamp a Vin on the bell housing flange, it is easier for an unscrupulous seller to explain that the engine block was "decked along time ago during a rebuild" or "was decked inadvertently but the vin on 69's is down by the oil filter so it has matching numbers."

Does the car have a POP? If so it will have the engine build date on it.

[KurtS]

That pad is restamped.

[RamAirDave]

That pad is restamped.

definately

[Flowjoe]

That pad is restamped.

As ever, A man of few words ;-)

I don't see this fellow very often, so now the question is whether or not to share the above info wiht him and burst his bubble.  He's not looking to sell the car...I think it's a keeper at this point.  I figured out his quarters were replaced and let him know and he was kinda bummed about that (looks like GM not repro quarters were used and it is not a bad job by any means).  I know the tranny is not original to the car...don't recall the rear axle details. 


And no, there is no documentation to go with the car.

For my edification, at what point did it become standard practice to stamp the VIN by the oil filter?  I had alwasy thought it was possible that either location could be used, but having just checked the CRG site :-) I see  it is noted as a "mid-model year" change...since mid model year would normally be around January or so is that when the change over occurs?  Or since '69 is a long production year does it occur later?

I' going to go out and check my '69 307 car (which I got from the original owner) which was built in 05A at Norwood as well and see where it's VIN is stamped....Kurt, I think you took a picture of that pad along with the '67 coupe.

[RamAirDave]

For NOR cars, the VIN stamp location changed around January.  LOS cars changed over a few months later.

Your 05A NOR 307 should be near the oil filter.  Will be tough to see.


dave

[firstgenaddict]

If the original trans is in the car snap a pic of the Vin stamping on it and if you can get a better one of the engine Vin that would be great as well.
The pair of them should display the same characteristics.
 

[tyrfryrtom]

Wolfie,

You have a PM.

[Flowjoe]

If the original trans is in the car snap a pic of the Vin stamping on it and if you can get a better one of the engine Vin that would be great as well.
The pair of them should display the same characteristics.
 

As previously mentioned the tranny is not original to the car....that much we knew.  So no help there.  I suppose that it could be the original block that was rebuilt/decked and then restamped but of course no way to prove that jsut supposition.