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Author Topic: 4053 Carb question.  (Read 3946 times)
69Z28
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« on: February 25, 2013, 10:33:24 PM »

Hey guys, I've been looking at 4053 carbs really hard the past couple of days on ebay. Some say 'ORIGINAL' and some say new. What kind of differences are there between an original and the new ones that are being sold. Two things I see that are claring on both is, no sight holes on the float bowls  to check float level and the dash pot, some call it a vacuum take off, the tit is straight on the new ones and curved on the originals. Anything else that is different? I suppose things get changed thru time but if you are looking for a complete original core like I am you you really have to know what your looking for. Anybody have any pics to share of all aspects of the 4053? I want to find a core to rebuild myself for my car, but what I see is nill on that and the prices for so called restored or new carbs are over the top...for me anyway.


Thanks
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GaryC

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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 10:57:43 PM »

Give me a couple of days to fish them out, and I'll be glad to share pics of 2 original 4053's, 1-68, 1-69, plus the balance of parts from an early Holley 4053 reproduction I parted out (bought the carb in the 80's when they first started repopping them, sold the center section, 4 digit date, and kept the bowls, throttle plate, metering blocks, and all small parts intact to rebuild my 4346 for the 375 horse).

I really wish the Holley Custom Shop was still in Springfield, TN - they used to take your Holley in, completely rebuild it, replace any and all worn parts with new (proper part #'s !), restore and replate ones they didn't have, and bench it and send it back to you for about $400.00. I don't know if they still offer that service, but it was great while it lasted here. They closed that location down, moved it back to Bowling Green years back.

Regards,
Steve
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69Z28
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 01:27:35 AM »

Great, I appreciate the time spent.

Give me a couple of days to fish them out, and I'll be glad to share pics of 2 original 4053's, 1-68, 1-69, plus the balance of parts from an early Holley 4053 reproduction I parted out (bought the carb in the 80's when they first started repopping them, sold the center section, 4 digit date, and kept the bowls, throttle plate, metering blocks, and all small parts intact to rebuild my 4346 for the 375 horse).

I really wish the Holley Custom Shop was still in Springfield, TN - they used to take your Holley in, completely rebuild it, replace any and all worn parts with new (proper part #'s !), restore and replate ones they didn't have, and bench it and send it back to you for about $400.00. I don't know if they still offer that service, but it was great while it lasted here. They closed that location down, moved it back to Bowling Green years back.

Regards,
Steve
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GaryC

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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 02:18:13 AM »

Gary,
The later service replacement 4053s have a thicker baseplate, to reduce tendency to crack, and some of the bowl screws have different heads to the assembly line versions (can't recall the details off the top of my head, will have to get back to you).
You're also correct in that the choke pull-off neck should be curved on an original 4053.
There are pictures of these details here: http://www.camaros.org/carb.shtml#holl
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69Z28
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 04:04:41 AM »

I am currently using an 0881 dated service replacement 4053 and has the hex head screws but can't remember right now if the pull off is straight or curved. I'll have to go to the garage and look. Too cold out right now though. Can't wait for some decent pics for comparisons.

Gary,
The later service replacement 4053s have a thicker baseplate, to reduce tendency to crack, and some of the bowl screws have different heads to the assembly line versions (can't recall the details off the top of my head, will have to get back to you).
You're also correct in that the choke pull-off neck should be curved on an original 4053.
There are pictures of these details here: http://www.camaros.org/carb.shtml#holl
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GaryC

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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 10:31:29 PM »

Gary,

Check some of these out. In comparing the 2-1/2 carbs I have, the only differences I see are the dashpot bib and some minute differences in the throttle plate casting. At least for the one repop that i bought, literally everything else on the carb, from the bowls to the screws to lettering, was right on to the point where it is virtually impossible to tell at a glance which is which, with the obvious differences in cleanliness and colors/coatings. The only skew to this may be the fact that I bought this 4053 clone in the 80's, when Holley first released the remakes - later production might have changed somewhat.
Incidentally, the screw heads on the repop were identical to the originals, and the bowls (all) have sight plugs in them. If you need additional details let me know and I'll show you whatever you need to look at. BTW - 1 is an April '68 (June '68 Z), and 1 is a December '68 (January '69 Z).

Regards,
Steve

Post Script: Was your Z ever in Tennessee ? I looked at an unrestored Cortez X33 years ago, offered to trade my LS5 '70 for it (he turned it down, wanted $16K for the car). Stupid of me -
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 10:33:48 PM »

Additional pics -
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 10:35:28 PM »

Last 2 -
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 12:17:28 AM »

Wow I love the pics. I can spend a few days looking at these.

My Z was first titled in Elkton, Maryland as far as I know. I had a friend of mine who's wife worked for DMV here in Delaware and she got me all the names of previous owners of the car since 1987 when it first got titled in Bear, Delaware. I have the owners name that had it Maryland, but hit a wall trying to locate him. I have had a number of people ask me about this particular car but as far as I know it has never been any further than Maryland and Delaware. The story I get from most people around here is that it was raced for a lot of years. It has always been garaged. It also still has the original upper ball joints installed with the factory rivets. I had the front end alignment checked out and it was perfect. Speedo had 83000 some odd miles on the odometer. I've put about 4000 miles on it since 2000. It doesn't get driven much but is fun when I take it out. Lots of yahoos around here with Mustang GT's like to tailgate when I'm on the road. I kind of get a little worried somebody will slam into my rear. There are a lot of older farmers and their wifes in the 80 and 90 year old range still driving too. Freaky scary.
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GaryC

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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 12:27:59 AM »

I'll have to look at the service replacement I have it's dated 0811 or 0881 I can remember. What are the numbers on the metering blocks on the repro? Mind don't have the 5583 and 4519 blocks. I found those numbers are just for the production run carbs and the SR's had different numbers I have them written down somewhere I'll have to look. The carb bowls have hex head bolts. I wonder if the SR's where that way from the beginning. I'll try to get some pics of it and post them if your interested.
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GaryC

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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 03:18:02 AM »

What are the numbers on the metering blocks on the repro? Mind don't have the 5583 and 4519 blocks. I found those numbers are just for the production run carbs and the SR's had different numbers I have them written down somewhere I'll have to look.
Gary, I have a service replacement 4053, and the metering blocks have 5583 and 4519 on them. Can't recall the 4-digit date code, the carb is over at a storage place but I can check it next time i'm over there if you'd like me to.
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 09:21:00 AM »

Gary,

5583 and 4519 on all of them. Including the service carb. 4346 - 375 horse carb takes the same ones - that's why I parted it out.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 04:03:12 PM »

The service replacement I have, 0881, has 5584 front and 3828 rear metering blocks. I wonder when in the time line these blocks were added. How do you tell if you have an over the counter piece or a bought from Holley piece? or can you tell>

Gary,

5583 and 4519 on all of them. Including the service carb. 4346 - 375 horse carb takes the same ones - that's why I parted it out.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 08:46:15 PM »

Gary,

I bought mine from Music City Rod Shop in Nashville sometime in the early to mid 80's - whenever I first saw them advertised by Holley as reproduction carbs. Strangest thing about it - carb was stamped 3923289 on the air horn, but did not have the DZ stamp. 4 digit date code (I'll see if I still have the pics when I sold it a few months back), but everything else, from the screws to the bowls, throttle linkage, choke plate and casting marks, is as you see it in the pics - dead on. The only differences were as I noted last night - throttle plate is slightly different, dashpot is straight. Everything else looks good (color is a little golden over the original greenish gold anodizing), plus the metering blocks are correct and marked for the 4346 L78 carb, which differs only in the vented fuel bowl that I can see. I'll check to see if I can find the date pics of the service carb.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 08:52:55 PM »

Found it -
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 08:58:24 PM »

"3496" should equate to the 349th day of '86, M6 on the box is probably December '86. Stored in the house since purchase, taking up space in my office until I finally decided to make the swap -   
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 09:15:33 PM »

The base plate differences are not so minor... most guys who have restored a higher end Z know the early baseplates don't have re-enforcing and are prone to break an ear. Original baseplates are not all that easy to locate.
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 09:53:03 PM »

The base plate differences are not so minor... most guys who have restored a higher end Z know the early baseplates don't have re-enforcing and are prone to break an ear. Original baseplates are not all that easy to locate.
And can be expensive if someone knows what they have......
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 11:44:16 PM »

I don't doubt it.

Good thing both of my Z's have good ones. I'm using the repop plate on the 4346 build - it started as a center section only anyway, and visually it looks pretty good. I need to check out the part number cast on the throttle plate to see if it matches the Holley parts listing I have. You do have to look pretty darn close to see the differences -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 01:48:57 AM »

Hi Gary here is a picture of a 4053 I found that has just been restored. I just had it on the dyno and it works great.





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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 02:40:31 AM »

That is the later, thicker baseplate Mike.
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 03:30:40 AM »

Thanks Steve good to know.  How does the rest of the carb look?
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 12:30:48 PM »

I can't tell from the pics but is the nipple on the dashpot straight or curved? What really should it be?



Hi Gary here is a picture of a 4053 I found that has just been restored. I just had it on the dyno and it works great.






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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 10:43:19 PM »

Hey Gary where do I find the nipple on the dash pot?
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 11:09:33 PM »

Mike. The dash pot is an older mechanics term for the vacuum pull off on the passenger side of the carb. You know...the thing of the thing of the thing where you have the little vacuum hose hook up for the smog stuff?!! On the OEM's it is a curved, and it looks like so far all the replacement and new carbs are straight.

The thing in the middle of the pic. This one is curved.
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2013, 01:23:01 AM »

Thanks Gary. I will check tomorrow. I was told it is an original carb that was rebuilt and refinished.
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 01:58:51 AM »

   New "Curved-neck" Choke Pull-offs are out there, here's one;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-70-CHOKE-PULL-OFF-HOLLEY-CURVED-PIPE-NOS-CHEVELLE-CAMARO-CHEVY-II-FULL-SIZE-/251030805006?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a729a1a0e&vxp=mtr
    These are one "Quick glance" sign to original or not.
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 10:51:23 AM »

FWIW - Most Later issue repo & service date 4053 carbs also have the wrong accelerator pump body & retainer screws and accellorator pump adjuster bolt/spring setup. Original production ine installed 4053 housings use clutch screws and the adjuster bolt never used a nyloc nut , they had a screw the other way with a t nut setup against the pump housing arm. Also the base idle adjustment screw was a different design.
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« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2013, 11:33:39 AM »

Hey Gary where do I find the nipple on the dash pot?

Thanks Gary. I will check tomorrow. I was told it is an original carb that was rebuilt and refinished.

Mike,

The nipple appears straight in the photos you posted.

Paul
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2013, 07:42:36 AM »

FWIW - Most Later issue repo & service date 4053 carbs also have the wrong accelerator pump body & retainer screws and accellorator pump adjuster bolt/spring setup. Original production ine installed 4053 housings use clutch screws and the adjuster bolt never used a nyloc nut , they had a screw the other way with a t nut setup against the pump housing arm. Also the base idle adjustment screw was a different design.
can you show a picture of this please?
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Rich

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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 10:21:28 AM »

<<can you show a picture of this please?>>

This isn't a 4053 - it's a 3810, but uses the same accelerator pump arm adjusting screw setup with the T-nut as used on the 4053.
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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 09:36:48 PM »

All these pics and information is just fantastic. First chance I get I gotta pull the SR carb and compare the differences. I'm curious about the base plate differences.
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GaryC

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« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2013, 07:35:12 AM »

Good pics John - thanks I know what to look for now, the other thing is the accel. pump cover half or more of the 4053's I see have regular phillips screws and not the clutch head type. is it confirmed all had clutch head originally?
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Rich

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« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2013, 10:56:35 AM »

FWIW, and JMO but Personally I have never seen a "Known Original" Holley 4053, 4346,  2818, 3246, 3247 etc., pre 1972 Holley carb that did not have the clutch head housing and screws. The later hsg with the Phillips screws shows up a lot on service dated or "restored" carbs from well known carb restoration company's for some reason. The early accelerator pump housings are very prone to bending/warping from over tightening as well as engine heat.

BTW I have been rebuilding/restoring carbs for 45 yrs., so I have seen lots.
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