CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 28, 2014, 08:37:37 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
106642 Posts in 12433 Topics by 4791 Members
Latest Member: DEL
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Restoration
| | |-+  'EY' coil springs.. update
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print
Author Topic: 'EY' coil springs.. update  (Read 4036 times)
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« on: January 30, 2013, 10:50:53 PM »

A few months ago, I was dismantling my front suspensioni for rebuilding, intending to just clean and replace ball joints/bushings/rubber...  but ALAS.. I found one loop of one of my springs was broken (the bottom loop.. still lying in the bottom of the cup).   When I got them out, i also found both springs still had their original 'EY' factory tapes on them, so at least I knew what I needed.   I spent a couple of weeks looking ..  ordered what was supposed to be the original replacement (MOOG) ..  tried two different spring numbers recommended here and in TC..   but neither of them even *looked* like the springs I removed (wrong number of coils, different wire dia etc).    When I requested help, Steve Shauger recommended I contact Coil Spring Specialties (Lenexa, KS).. so I did.   They do custom springs for just about any application.   I sent them my one good original spring, and we had many discussions on the phone and via email over a couple of months.   My concerns were that the replacements...
1)  had the same number of coil loops (Cool
2)  had as close as possible to the same wire thickness and free length (equivalent)
3)  Had at least the equivalent spring rate (new 340 lbs/in vs 320 measured on the old one)
4)  Sat no higher than my origiinal spring when static loaded in the car - yet to be checked.

Today, I finally received the springs via Fedex.   Cost me $209, plus shipping my spring out there, which is more than twice the cost of the *replacement MOOG numbers* via Autozone/Advance/etc, BUT...   the springs LOOK like my original spring.   See photos of the two new springs flanking the original spring!    The only remaining things to do is to assemble the front suspension, reinstall ALL the parts I've removed for cleaning..  Smiley... and check the ride height!    I'll let you fellas know how it works out.   In the meantime, if anyone else wants to duplicate the original EY spring, Coil Spring Specialities has the data now from measuring my spring and producing my new springs.. so it should be lots easier/faster and cheaper for them to pop a couple off for you.   OR you can wait to see how mine work out.. Smiley

PS.  I asked them not to paint the springs, so they are bare steel right now.   Should I clear coat them?  or ??

Gary
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Ed Bertrand
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 2333


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »

Gary, not to rain on your parade, and I hope everything works out for you, but when springs get old and worn, they expand. Up to several inches! If you had them make the new springs based on the length of your old springs (as it appears they did from your pictures), then your car is going to ride a lot higher in the front then when it was new. Of course, this is based on how bad your original springs were, but you can pretty much bet that 40 year old springs are worn out.

Ed
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 11:39:52 AM »

Ed,
The important parameters when talking to the coil spring mfg is front end weight and  'installed spring height', and when I was researching for the replacement springs, I found GM information on the front end weight for my options, but could not find documented values for the compressed spring height (for a Z28).   I literally spent months and dozens of phone calls and discussions with the mfg before we settled on the spring parameters.

From my memory, I recall original Z28's sat lower in front than say an SS or other similar camaros, but I have not been able to find a value for that from any GM literature or from any posts here or in TC.   The spring manufacturer used 10" for that value and made the springs so that for the GM documented weight on the front end of my car, it should compress the spring to 10".    I HOPE that value is correct..   time will tell when I get them installed and everything back on my car... Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Ed Bertrand
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 2333


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 11:46:14 AM »

Quote
From my memory, I recall original Z28's sat lower in front than say an SS or other similar camaros, but I have not been able to find a value for that from any GM literature or from any posts here or in TC.

The info you need is in the AIM. UPC 0, sheet A10. Dimension "Z" for the Z28 is 1.93" (curb weight), or about a half inch lower than a non-Z. Dimension "J" however (33 inches aft of the center line of the front wheel), is just about the same as the non-Z, so yes, the Z sits lower at the front than a non-Z, but it's really not by much. Same thing goes for the rear of the Z. It's a little lower than a non-Z, but not by much.

Ed
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1258



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2013, 04:58:16 PM »

FWIW another friend has a 69 RS/cowl hood Z built in Dec of 68 and his broadcast sheet has EY as the coil code for it as well.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
69L48Z27
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 08:07:16 PM »

Hi. I have a dumb question. It seems you went to great lengths to have these springs made. Why didn't you use these:
http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/14598/Camaro-Coil-springs-3955814-EY-pair-1969/

Just curious. I needed a set of EL springs last fall and I used these from HBC. They were spot on. Want to make sure I did the right thing...
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 09:18:22 PM »

I was unable to find any springs which matched in appearance, coil wire thickness, and number of coils to the original EY springs..   I went to more trouble, more time, and more $$ in trying to match up the physical characteristics as well as the functional characteristics.   My original EY springs had 8-1/8 loops, and were ~0.60" wire size.   I haven't yet got the weight back on these springs to check static height, so that is my last question to be answered.
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
BillOhio
Member
***
Posts: 380



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 10:41:52 PM »

When i got my springs i called hbc on their yf springs. They don't sell the exact  springs anymore. They sold me the small block springs. My car sat like the engine was out. Spring waS like 3 inches longthemer. pozzi racing has a Web site where he tested alot of moog springs and i got a set to match the z. Very happy with them. His site had alot of good info
Logged

1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 12:29:16 AM »

I talked to all the suppliers, even bought a couple of sets of springs as recommended.   None of them even came close to matching the appearance (number of coils,etc) so I was not going to iistall them...  now, if these springs don't make my car sit/ride right, then I might have to go wtih one of the others, but first I wanted to try with a matched appearance spring.   I'll update when I get some weight on my front end...
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
lynnbilodeau
Member
***
Posts: 264


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 07:12:41 PM »

I have a pair of front springs from a 69 Z.  I don't know if they are EY springs or YF springs.  Pretty certain they are not YH.  I sand blasted and painted them many years ago.  I do know for certain they were original springs on a Z.  Just don't know what options that Z had, because at the time, I thought all the Z's got the same front springs, so I never asked.  They are not the originals off my car that are mia.

Wire diameter is .580 to .585 depending on where you measure.

Just over 8 coils.

Gary, are you certain your original EY spring is .600?

I also have a question regarding usage of the spring chart.  Options on my car include am fm radio (+6lbs), VE3 bumber (-6) spoilers (-1) and ducted hood (+1 if I read the chart right).  Add that together and it is 0.

Anyway, do you figure in additional weight for power brakes and four speed since they were mandatory?
Even figuring those two in (11 and 9), I am under the 68 lbs it takes to get to a EY spring.

Logged
BillOhio
Member
***
Posts: 380



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 11:42:30 PM »

If you went to that much trouble don't paint them. Get some rust prevention magic and use it in bare steel
Logged

1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 12:41:12 AM »

Lynn,

I mic'ed them at 0.595 .. that was after bead blasting, so  I figured they lost 0.005 to 'rust' over the years.  *L*
My car is an RS with ZL-2 hood vinyl top.. custom interior.. rem mirror...   trying to recall the heavy options...  RS was the biggie I think?   my total went about 65-90 lbs over if I recall...
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 09:43:20 AM »

I have the suspension back together; had to sit the engine/trans in place to compress the springs sufficently to hook up the ball joints.   Just for kicks (and an early indication of where these springs are going to sit), I took it off the jack stands and put it on the tires yesterday.   As you can see from the photo, there are still a LOT of things not installed, so hopefully the front will settle down another inch or so.   I measured the height of the bottom of rocker at the front and at the rear and got 10-3/8" and 9-3/8" respectively. The designed in load rate for the springs are 370 lbs/in.    I probably need for the missing parts on the front to total 450-500 lbs to get the height where I want it.   The rear should also go down a bit with gas in the tank and spare/jack/etc in the trunk.   The car is an RS with cowl hood and dhrome/steel bumper.   the Photo shows all the stuff that's missing still off the front end.   If anyone has a feel for how much it all weighs, I'd love to hear it.  Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
lynnbilodeau
Member
***
Posts: 264


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 09:32:55 AM »

How much does it weigh?  A bunch, but that is only an estimate.

Looking good Gary.  You really won't know until you have it all together and drive it around a bit.

Might want to get the heater box in before you go much further.  I hate those things, even with everything out of the way.

Any other guys out there know which front spring they have in a 69Z?

Would like to document spring wire diameter.
Gary's EY are .595 to .600
I have a set that are .585 (possibly the YF)
I am guessing the YH is just a bit thicker than Gary's EY springs.
Logged
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 02:13:52 AM »

Great thread. Sorry to hy-jack it.

I am looking for front coils for a 69 Z as well. I have a set of springs from a friends 69 Z. He pulled his springs out to change his ball joints. When he put the springs back in the car it sat much higher in the front. As a result he ordered new front coils that were dropped one inch, from Eaton I think. The car sits perfect now. I was going to use his old springs as I am installing new leaf springs, and I thought they would balance out. Is it possible the expansion occurred when he removed the coils and should I get new coils? I don't want to install his old coils only to have to remove them and get new ones. I would rather just do it once while it is all apart.

Thanks
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 06:59:01 AM »

I find it very difficult to believe that removing/reinstalling the same springs would make the car sit higher.   
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
lynnbilodeau
Member
***
Posts: 264


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 07:46:13 AM »

Is it possible the expansion occurred when he removed the coils ?

No it isn't possible.  The springs can't magically take on new characteristics just by being removed and reinstalled.
So... what happened?

Possible:
1.  The new ball joint was shorter (i.e. a problem solver) bringing the lower control arm up a bit.
2.  He didn't get the springs seated in the upper pocket.
3.  He didn't have it seated correctly in the lower pocket.
4.Huh

Measure the springs he gave you.  See if they mic at around .585 to .595.  How many coils?
Logged
NoYenko
Member
***
Posts: 324



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2013, 09:02:38 PM »

I have witnessed several cars where the front suspension was worked on and put back together with the same or correct  parts and the car sits higher. If it's assembled correctly, usually it is due to the rubber bushings in the control arms are preloaded (twisted) and supporting a fair amount of chassis weight. George
Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2013, 09:07:06 PM »

Driving the car a few miles over a few bumps should allow the springs to move to their correct location, and unload the A arm bushings, and I always 'jounce' the front end a few times after assembling the suspension, or even jacking up the car, which should also do the same thing.
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
lynnbilodeau
Member
***
Posts: 264


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2013, 09:22:59 PM »

What George said.  Should have made that one number 4.  Wait until the car is fully settled to tighten upper and lower control arm bolts.
Logged
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2013, 10:47:06 PM »

I find it very difficult to believe that removing/reinstalling the same springs would make the car sit higher.   

Crazy but true. It was drastic in my opinion!
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2013, 10:57:07 PM »

Hi Gary sorry to keep hi-jacking your thread, but I figure why start anothet thread when we are both talking about the same thing.

Here is a pic of my front coils. I count 8 coils and a bit. 15 & a half inches long. According to the previous owner of the springs and the car they came out of,  the springs were GM NOS replacements in 2006.  The car travelled less than 1,000 miles with them and mostly sat.



Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2013, 11:32:42 PM »

My EY springs when I removed them (after 43 yrs) were also slightly over 15" in free length, and 8-1/8 coils.. measured slightly less than 0.600 in dia of the wire.
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2013, 11:47:11 PM »

My EY springs when I removed them (after 43 yrs) were also slightly over 15" in free length, and 8-1/8 coils.. measured slightly less than 0.600 in dia of the wire.


Sounds like we have the same springs.
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2013, 01:26:25 AM »

Hey Gary here are my springs measured with the micrometer.

Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2488


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2013, 11:33:09 AM »

Without having all the various springs Chevrolet used on '69 Camaros, it's impossible for me to know how they adjusted spring rate and loaded height for each car weight.   your coil wire is a bit thicker than I measured (assuming we both measured correctly and consistently), thus your spring would be for a heavier weight car.  As you see from the 69 Camaro Usage Chart, there were a lot of different springs, for the multitude of engines they offered in the camaro. 
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/69_spring_ID_PA34.jpg

For the Z28, only the following springs were used depending on the additional front end weights for your optional items:

12437     302 Eng. Z28)
0-68                       YF
69 -148                   EY
Over 148                 YH

My car's options totaled between 76 and 107 lbs (from the factory) where the EY spring would be correct, and that was what the original springs were labeled.  If your spring coil wire dia is thicker then it may be the YH spring (for the heaviest of addon weight ranges).   You can check the weight charts to see what options might have added up to the 148 lbs (Plus) to justify the YH spring?  From the charts, it seems it would require a Z28 to have almost ALL the possible options to reach the YH level of spring, certainly it appears the tape player would be required,and that's a rare option.

Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 07:18:29 PM »

Without having all the various springs Chevrolet used on '69 Camaros, it's impossible for me to know how they adjusted spring rate and loaded height for each car weight.   your coil wire is a bit thicker than I measured (assuming we both measured correctly and consistently), thus your spring would be for a heavier weight car.  As you see from the 69 Camaro Usage Chart, there were a lot of different springs, for the multitude of engines they offered in the camaro. 
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/69_spring_ID_PA34.jpg

For the Z28, only the following springs were used depending on the additional front end weights for your optional items:

12437     302 Eng. Z28)
0-68                       YF
69 -148                   EY
Over 148                 YH

My car's options totaled between 76 and 107 lbs (from the factory) where the EY spring would be correct, and that was what the original springs were labeled.  If your spring coil wire dia is thicker then it may be the YH spring (for the heaviest of addon weight ranges).   You can check the weight charts to see what options might have added up to the 148 lbs (Plus) to justify the YH spring?  From the charts, it seems it would require a Z28 to have almost ALL the possible options to reach the YH level of spring, certainly it appears the tape player would be required,and that's a rare option.



Thanks Gary that is great info. I will check out the link you posted.
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1258



View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 02:32:05 PM »

Mike,
If those were the ones out of the black RS Z they were NOS with tags on them when they were installed. I remember they had the correct YF part number.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 462


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 06:44:12 PM »

Hey Gary here are my springs measured with the micrometer.




Just an FYI, but the original springs in my 69 rs/z28 measure .609 as well
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2013, 02:37:56 AM »

Mike,
If those were the ones out of the black RS Z they were NOS with tags on them when they were installed. I remember they had the correct YF part number.

Yes, James they are the the front coil springs out of that car. I have several parts from that car going into my car soon.
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.115 seconds with 17 queries.