Author Topic: Zl-2 Cowl Hood Production (Read 35886 times)

DONCZ28 · « **on:** January 26, 2013, 02:10:02 AM »

Would like to see a comparison of body date (Fisher) vs. Cowl Hood date (Chevrolet). My 69Z 06A NOR. / Hood date week 23

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2013, 06:04:11 AM »

Do a search. Kurt has collected a fairly large data base with this information available to us in the email... maybe search on hood date code?

Oaklyss · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2013, 06:57:01 PM »

My Van Nuys 04A car's ZL-2 hood is dated week 12

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2013, 08:16:37 PM »

My late 09C Z28 ZL2 hood is dated '25'...

TX-302 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »

Where is this hood code located?
Does the CRG database have any production numbers of 69 Z's with factory ZL2 hoods?

Mark · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2013, 03:38:05 PM »

Nope, only the 10,026 that the production records indicate was made over the entire run. Take away 3675 for the Z11's, another 400 0r 500 for the Z10, and 1000 for the COPOs where the hoods were mandatory options and that leaves roughly 5000 for all of the remaining SS's and Z28's ordered after the beginning of December 1968 that could have ordered the hoods as an option.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2013, 03:38:41 PM »

TX-302,
from what has been reported previously, all 'factory original' ZL-2 hoods had a 'date code' stamped on the rear drivers corner of the hood, on the side at the back. See attached photo of my original hood with '25' stamped. Note that the stamp in my case is 'upside down'. I'm totally unsure if they are all like that or not, since I only have the one. The 25 represents the week of the year, so 25 would be sometime during July of 1969 (since '69 is the only year factory cowl hoods were used). My car is an 09C production with a 27August engine and most parts being produced in August 1969.

Supposedly, repro hoods and even post-69 model year 'OTC' hoods were not so stamped?

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2013, 03:41:36 PM »

Mark wrote - speaking of ZL2 factory hoods:
"...were mandatory options and that leaves roughly 5000 for all of the remaining SS's and Z28's that could have ordered the hoods as an option."

Mark, since the SS Camaros had a special hood, Was the ZL-2 even an option for SS's?? I didnt' think it was... but I don't have an original option book...

Mark · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2013, 04:43:54 PM »

Yes, it was available on SS's and Z28's as an option, had to be ordered though it never came as part of the ss or Z28 package. The SS and the Z28 were the only cars it was available on, outside of the COPOs.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2013, 04:56:00 PM »

OK .. thanks Mark. Of course I recall seeing them on Z11, but don't recall ever seeing a *regular SS* with a cowl hood.. but then there weren't a lot of Z28's with the cowl hoods either, back in the day..

Oaklyss · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2013, 06:43:52 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 04:56:00 PM

OK .. thanks Mark. Of course I recall seeing them on Z11, but don't recall ever seeing a *regular SS* with a cowl hood.. but then there weren't a lot of Z28's with the cowl hoods either, back in the day..

Here is my SS350 factory ZL-2. Probably very few made.

KurtS · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2013, 06:45:26 AM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 03:41:36 PM

but I don't have an original option book...

http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#RPOSpreadsheet

I don't think the COPO hoods would count in that RPO total, since it was part of the package.

ZLP955 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2013, 10:04:34 AM »

Quote from: Oaklyss on January 28, 2013, 06:43:52 PM

Here is my SS350 factory ZL-2. Probably very few made.

Does your car have a '270' ignition coil? Beautiful car, BTW!

Oaklyss · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2013, 01:39:05 PM »

Yes, 270 coil, and "DE" coded air cleaner.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »

Is there a 'code' stamped somewhere on the air cleaner? First I've heard of that.. or are you referring to a 'paper sticker/label'??

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2013, 04:15:17 PM »

sticker label... Z's are coded DG

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2013, 04:41:26 PM »

I've got two original Z28 cowl Air cleaners, one off my car, and another from a friend's Z28 that I obtained in the '70's.. Illl check them for that sticker.. Thanks

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2013, 05:22:48 PM »

I have a 08C 1969 Z. The original ZL-2 hood is stamped 26.
My question is were flat hoods stamped as well?

ZLP955 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2013, 11:33:39 PM »

Quote from: BULLITT65 on January 31, 2013, 05:22:48 PM

were flat hoods stamped as well?

Yes they were, on the driver's side rear corner - same as the picture posted earlier on page 1.

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2013, 12:20:06 AM »

Now we are seeing good data! Please show Nor. or Van. with body production and hood week. Now lets keep the data coming!

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2013, 01:43:17 AM »

Sorry my car is a Norwood Camaro

wtexz10 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2013, 06:19:54 AM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 04:56:00 PM

OK .. thanks Mark. Of course I recall seeing them on Z11, but don't recall ever seeing a *regular SS* with a cowl hood.. but then there weren't a lot of Z28's with the cowl hoods either, back in the day..

Don't forget the Z10 came with them also.

KevinW · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2013, 12:37:59 PM »

Quote from: KurtS on January 31, 2013, 06:45:26 AM

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 03:41:36 PM
but I don't have an original option book...
http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#RPOSpreadsheet

I don't think the COPO hoods would count in that RPO total, since it was part of the package.

Kurt, then the Z11s should not be counted either, right? Wasn't that a mandatory option for that package? I think since the Z10 was not a "real" factory package, they should be part of the 10,026 ordered individually. So that would make 9,726 hoods that were ordered as part of a Z28 or SS order (55,234). That would make it around 17% of the Zs and SSes recieved the hood. That to me sounds more plausible.

Mark · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2013, 05:31:47 PM »

Required option is different than being part of and engineered option (COPO). All of the Z10, and Z11 were required to have option ZL2, and it did show up on the window sticker as a separate line item. I would think that any car that had an option called out on the window sticker as a separate line item would cause that RPO to be added to the total number of units produced for that option. Z28's required a muncie transmission, and power disc brakes but they weren't part of RPOZ28, which was essentially the 302 engine, and you paid for them as an extra option item. I don't know if the COPOs were listed as a single line item ie 9557, with a list of peices parts that came under that option, or if they listed each separate item like ZL2, M22,L72, etc line by line.

KevinW · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2013, 06:27:14 PM »

Ok, doing a quick window sticker google search, the COPOs did not have the "special ducted hood" called out. But a SS did. But I could not find a Z11 one in my search. Hmm, It now has me thinking, what other mandatory option was required on Z11s that was called out on the window sticker and could we deduce if the RPO counts for that option include or not include the mandatory option catagory.

KevinW · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2013, 06:42:40 PM »

I am sorry to say, I now have my doubts as th the accuracy of the RPO spreadsheet. I relied on it as gospel

example from RPO table: Total 69 convertible production = 17573. I added the L6 (1707), V8(15866) and Canada (935) and came up with 18508 verts built. OK, lets not count Canada, then the totals match. Then we take the non power tops (17573 (same number as total vert production??)) and the power tops (9631) and together they are 27204 verts.

OK some number is not correct here. lets assume the Canada cars are not included in the production numbers, then can we assume that any Canadian export did not count towards the option count (ZL2 hood as an example)?

I am hoping the power top and non-power top numbers just need some correction, but it makes me wonder if there are any more "corrections" that are needed in the table?

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2013, 06:58:48 PM »

Seems like Kurt or one of the senior members here would have some data to share to concur or shed some light....

bertfam · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2013, 07:13:49 PM »

You're reading the list incorrectly. In your example, C05 was used to indicate the color of the top, not that it was non-power. So ALL 17573 convertibles will have C05. C06 was used if the customer ordered the power top, so for 1969, 9631 customers opted for this option. Since the non-power top wasn't an option (it was standard equipment), there aren't any totals for this.

As for Canada, NO 1967-1969 Camaro was assembled in Canada, so the totals won't include these. This is just an indicator of how many were sent there from the Norwood plant. The same thing goes for the "Export" box. It's just an indicator of how many were exported to other countries (other than Canada).

Ed

KevinW · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2013, 07:29:16 PM »

OK, I gotcha, I am relieved, it is just my intrepretation and not the data.

Now I will look more closely at the totals armed with this info. Thanks!

KevinW · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2013, 07:54:19 PM »

Sorry to keep wasting your time Ed, I am still trying to figure this RPO sheet out. I looked the SS option package (Z27) 34,932 cars built. The notes say a bunch of things are included. First being the "special" engine. I do not think the 350/300 engine is part of the "included" catagory like the C05 top, since the number of them (22,339) is less then the total SS's built. So we have to assume all the SS available engines are listed seperatley on the RPO pdf. But when I total up all the 350/300, 396/325,350,375 and the L89s, I get 36,309, which is 1,377 more "SS" engines then were built. I am missing another key peice?

thanks

KevinW · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2013, 08:04:35 PM »

Just for fun, I looked at all v8 engines for 69 (207,148) vs the number of V8 cars built (coupe + vert)=(206,837). So there were 311 more v8 engines counted by RPO, then were built. I did not count the COPOs.

I am so confused now.

KurtS · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2013, 10:53:12 PM »

Almost all of those #'s are from GM. Some don't make sense. I can't fix that.
There's an extra 602 engines in 67 - did they miscount the Z's?

Quote from: KevinW on February 01, 2013, 08:04:35 PM

Just for fun, I looked at all v8 engines for 69 (207,148) vs the number of V8 cars built (coupe + vert)=(206,837). So there were 311 more v8 engines counted by RPO, then were built.

That's easy. L89 is not an engine option, it's a head option. 311 built.

KevinW · « **Reply #32 on:** February 02, 2013, 12:01:48 AM »

I missed that too. Dang spread sheets, they are so picky! thanks Kurt!

ZLP955 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2013, 12:34:28 AM »

Quote from: DONCZ28 on February 01, 2013, 12:20:06 AM

Now we are seeing good data! Please show Nor. or Van. with body production and hood week. Now lets keep the data coming!

The original hood on my 04A Van Nuys car is stamped '13'; although not requested in this thread, the quarters and trunk lid are stamped '12' and the roof reinforcement on the driver's side is '7'. Haven't checked the fenders or doors yet, where would the stamp likely be on those?

Mark · « **Reply #34 on:** February 02, 2013, 12:49:19 AM »

Knock the 311 L89's off, because they are a subset of the L78's, ie you had to order an L78 to add the L89 heads. The L48 was included as the "base" SS option package, so 22349 of those Z27 were base SS's. Removing the 311 L89s leaves a total of 35998 SS engines, to go into 34932 "SS's", or a difference of 1066 extra engines, or a typo in one or more of the totals.

zbo2 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2013, 05:23:46 AM »

my 7A is stamped 25... as was a lot of the sheet metal

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:36:48 PM »

Quote from: zbo2 on February 11, 2013, 05:23:46 AM

my 7A is stamped 25... as was a lot of the sheet metal

Was this car built in Van. or Nor. Thank's...Don

KurtS · « **Reply #37 on:** February 12, 2013, 11:34:23 PM »

NOR. VN had stopped months before 07A

xandf · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:58:12 AM »

I have questioned the cowl hood ever since owning this car, so went to get a number or not tonight. Came up with a 34 stamp under layers of paint. 10E X77 car. Would like opinions as to whether this is a 34 since the first digit is hard to read clearly. I have another question about the 302 emblems, but didn't want to hijack the thread for anything else.

MO · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2013, 03:21:51 AM »

I looked at the picture before I read your post and immediately thought it looked like 34. That would have it made in mid August.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2013, 04:06:54 PM »

Hey what happened to our running list of car info and hood date? Did it get removed for some reason?

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2013, 08:01:25 PM »

Quote from: BULLITT65 on February 15, 2013, 04:06:54 PM

Hey what happened to our running list of car info and hood date? Did it get removed for some reason?

I don't think we had such a 'running' list, Austin... we are all waiting for you to tally up the summary from the individual posts made in this thread..

I made an incorrect statement early in this thread that Kurt had such a tally, but I think I was thinking about the gas tank tally he has, so that was an incorrect statement on my part; no reason you can't do the tally from the information posted in this thread though..

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2013, 09:37:46 PM »

When I started this conversation , I had a hunch ,that cars with factory cowl hoods stayed with their original bodies. This seams to be the case, just like most original gas tanks. This is a good indicator of a time line ,when the body (Fisher) met up with the front sheet metal (Chevy). I think it would be a good idea to collect this data, just like the gas tanks. Let's see some more data, specially some early cars!

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2013, 03:53:58 AM »

ok:

User Model Plant build code hood stamp
OAKLYSS SS VN 04A 12
ZLP955 ? VN 04A 13
ZBO2 ? NOR 07A 25
BULLITT65 X-77 Z/28 NOR 08C 26
69Z28-RS X-33 Z/28 NOR 09C 25
xandf X-77 Z/28 NOR 10E 34

any others?? Kurt I thought you had a cowl hood on your car? Also I know OakleySS stated his is an SS car, it would be interesting to see the mix of Z/28 vs. SS cars

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 16, 2013, 03:58:41 AM »

DONCZ28 X-33 Z-28 NOR. 06A week 23

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 16, 2013, 04:42:37 AM »

Added:

User Model Plant build code hood stamp
OAKLYSS SS VN 04A 12
ZLP955 ? VN 04A 13
DONCZ28 X-33 Z/28 NOR 06A 23
ZBO2 ? NOR 07A 25
BULLITT65 X-77 Z/28 NOR 08C 26
69Z28-RS X-33 Z/28 NOR 09C 25
xandf X-77 Z/28 NOR 10E 34

Guys just copy this list. Paste it in your response, and figure out where you fit in (build date wise), and then add your info. (post it!)

Mark · « **Reply #46 on:** February 17, 2013, 08:31:29 PM »

OAKLYSS SS VN 04A 12
ZLP955 ? VN 04A 13
MARK Z11 NOR 04L 18
DONCZ28 X-33 Z/28 NOR 06A 23
ZBO2 ? NOR 07A 25
BULLITT65 X-77 Z/28 NOR 08C 26
69Z28-RS X-33 Z/28 NOR 09C 25
xandf X-77 Z/28 NOR 10E 34

toddstoys · « **Reply #47 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:26:11 PM »

Hello guys I'm new to this forum, I have been reading the forum for several years but this topic spiked my interest. I have been owning a 1969 camaro SS 350 for 39 years. Its a 01D (early Van Nuys car) production Daytona yellow with a cowl induction hood. The air cleaner is the flat bottom and have all the wiring harness that is correct. I know the two previous owners and they said the hood was on the car when they bought it. I do not know who the original owner was. I have one issue is that the wiring harness hole is not in the location above the fuse block, in fact its on the opposite side of the the brake booster. The hole is drilled where a dimple was from the photos I have seen. It could not have been drilled out with the brake booster installed. Also it has the non SS hood springs. The original cowl hood had some serious rust issues and I purchased a new one about 25 years ago from the a local Chevy dealership. So I do not know what the stamp on the drivers side of the hood was. The big question I have is............Do any of you guys know of any early cowl equipped cars that the wire harness hole in a different location? Maybe some of the early cowl equipped cars from Van Nuys are the same.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #48 on:** February 18, 2013, 05:24:28 AM »

A friend of mine has a 12C Van Nuys Hugger Orange RS/Z that is the earliest verifiable documented cowl hood car known, He has LOADS of docs and the car has never been restored. Let me see where his wiring exits.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #49 on:** February 18, 2013, 05:49:49 AM »

and try to find out the date code on his hood? *S*

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #50 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:07:57 AM »

His comes out above the fuse box.
It sounds like someone put it through the auto speedo cable hole or the kickdown switch location?

ZLP955 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 18, 2013, 10:24:40 AM »

OAKLYSS SS VN 04A 12
ZLP955 Z/28 VN 04A 13
MARK Z11 NOR 04L 18
DONCZ28 X-33 Z/28 NOR 06A 23
ZBO2 ? NOR 07A 25
BULLITT65 X-77 Z/28 NOR 08C 26
69Z28-RS X-33 Z/28 NOR 09C 25
xandf X-77 Z/28 NOR 10E 34

Just updated the model, it was in my sig.

toddstoys · « **Reply #52 on:** February 18, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »

I failed to mention that it not and Rally Sport and I do not have a gauge package. Its an automatic trans car. Of course I want to have some evidence that it was factory installed. I could not have been drilled or punched with the brake booster in place, also it could not have drilled or punched from under the dash. I think highly unlikely that someone at a dealership removed the power brake booster to drill or punch a 3/4" hole for the grommet. The penetration is clean as if it was punched. My car has all of the components for a functional hood complete flat bottom air cleaner, soleniod, pedal switch, pedal bracket for the switch, relay etc. Previous owners history back to 1970 was as is. Not possible to locate original owner. Back then guys just wanted the cowl induction hood and and not interested if it was functionable. Who was restoring a Camaro back in 1970 back to origional. I hope someone else replies with information with the wire harness hole in not to specification location. Where are the guys with the high end fully loaded 69 camaros?

I'll try to post a picture of the location of the harness hole. Thanks for the reply.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #53 on:** February 18, 2013, 05:14:44 PM »

get a picture from the inside as well, where the harness comes through the dash mat (firewall pad) and goes towards the fuse box.

The pink and brown wire (to the left side of the photo above the fuse box) are coming through in the correct cowl induction piercing in this photo.

If I am reading you correctly you are saying your harness comes through somewhere near the round punch out in the top left of this photo? Correct?

toddstoys · « **Reply #54 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:02:53 PM »

OK.......I'll try to expain without pictures. If you were standing in front of the car looking at the break booster, the location of the vacuum check valve (in a straight line) the piercing is on the firewall 2 1/2" below that check valve. Also I failed to mention its a air conditioned car with a console. I do not have that much clearance like in your picture. I will send pictures ASAP, won't be untill later. Thanks for your help, really appreciated.

ZLP955 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 18, 2013, 07:58:05 PM »

Can you identify which hole the wiring comes through (if any) in the image below?

toddstoys · « **Reply #56 on:** February 19, 2013, 03:12:58 AM »

OK.... just got home and measured its a 1" hole. It is for #9 on the drawing for C-60 air condition vacuum lines. The cowl induction wire harness is routed through that hole also. It has been like that since I purchased the car in 1974. I attached picture from CRG with a white arrow pointing to the location. The cowl set up may have been dealer installed..... I don't know

? Have you ever seen several harness or vacuum sharing penetrations in the firewall ? Thanks guys for you help.

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Author Topic: Zl-2 Cowl Hood Production (Read 35886 times)