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Author Topic: Kelsey Hayes rims for 1969  (Read 3598 times)
RPOZ11
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« on: January 19, 2013, 08:33:37 PM »

Been tinkering with this thought in my head...

When a 1969 Camaro is being ordered, then built along the assembly lines, How long did it take K-H to make the rims to get to the car?

I wish to ask the timeline and process for rims to reach tires then reach the car being assembled.

Is there any timeline differences for the same questions above pertaining to Van Nuys vs Norwood plants?

 Huh
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 11:09:41 PM »

Following might be hellpful

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3747.0
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Richard Thomas
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RPOZ11
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 10:41:56 AM »

Thanx for that link.

Has CRG done any research topucs on this?

LA vs Norwood?
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RPOZ11
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 01:29:37 PM »

K = Kelsey Hayes (manufacturer of the rim for GM-Chevrolet)
1 = plant at Romulus, Michigan (for GM-Chevrolet)
9 = 1969 (Year of Manufacture)

Now, as I am searching around for info, in prior years of 1969...
KH rims being manufactured for Chevrolet, in my image above,
the earlier rims only used a single J after the rim stamping of the size and width.
Example :  14 X 5 J
Does the single J denote anything towards how the rim fits the brake system?
Where as, in 1969 JJ stamping, does the JJ represent anything towards brake system fitment?

What is curious to me is if the early 1969 Z28 AD rims were stamped with JJ or J ?
I would assume the the YH rims were having the JJ satmping.

In my image above, you will notice the letter A below the 14 of the 14X7 JJ stampings.
I am going to guess that this denotes the month that it was made.
This image is from one of my YJ rims in a set from January 1969.
To add, there is also a letter in the wheel center that seems to denote the month of manufacture, K-1-9 A.
On this particular rim, the A is stamped just under the GM stamp on the wheel center.
I am going to assume that the outer band was manufatured in Jaunary, 1969 by looking at this.
I am going to assume that the wheel center was manufatured in Jaunary, 1969 as well.


I decided to go and look at some of my other rims.
K-1-8 trhru K-1-9 issue.
Some of the K-1-8 rims have the Letter code in the wheel center on another of one of the 5 landings of the rim where it it can be stamped.
One set, stamped for October, 1968 denotes a 10-X date.
These rims show a K-1-8 with a Letter J.
Counting out the months, J lands on the month of October.

Thoughts....
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 03:20:48 PM »

I've noticed some similar correllations in the past, but have seen nothing documented about it..

Gary
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 04:16:41 PM »

Could be releated to the different dishes in the centers for drum/disc brakes, 14 x 6 ralleys came in a few different offsets.
    VT
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 05:18:44 PM »

Just to add to this discussion...

Found an image of a 1967 14 X 5 rally rim from a Nova that is stamped JJ on the band.
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 07:34:20 PM »

My 05A 69 Z-28 has YH rally's dated 4-21 and either 4-24 or 4-26. It has been a while since I looked at them.
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 08:19:58 PM »

Maybe this s a good time to begin a K-H rim submission.

Maybe we could start a thread per coding:
YH rim thread
YJ rim thread
XT rim thread

Maybe a month by month categorizing.

If you are able to get the wheel center and band codes, that would be great!
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 10:39:13 AM »

The following pic is of a Oct.68 "AD" rim. I don't believe the "A" is the month. Under the "JJ" is a "10". I believe that is the month. It would be nice to see you include the "AD" rim in your research.
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 10:41:26 AM »

<<
Now, as I am searching around for info, in prior years of 1969...
KH rims being manufactured for Chevrolet, in my image above,
the earlier rims only used a single J after the rim stamping of the size and width.
Example :  14 X 5 J
Does the single J denote anything towards how the rim fits the brake system?
Where as, in 1969 JJ stamping, does the JJ represent anything towards brake system fitment? >>


The "K", "J", "JJ", and "JK" stamped on the rim following the wheel size are unrelated to the brake system fitment - that's determined by the contour of the spider, not the rim. The letter stamped as the suffix of the wheel size is the SAE code for the drop-center contour of the rim cross-section, including the presence/location of the tire bead safety rib(s).
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 10:56:24 AM »

Were Buick ralleys stamped the same as chevys? (yes Buick, They came body color with small caps with Buick crest cap centers)
    VT
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 03:15:38 PM »

There's a good note describing the number scheme used by Kelsey Hayes somewhere.. maybe someone here has it handy and will post it?    I think I'm recalling correctly that the '1' after the K..  is the code for Chevrolet.. so maybe it's a '2' for Buick?  or ??   Smiley

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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 11:03:24 AM »

There's a good note describing the number scheme used by Kelsey Hayes somewhere.. maybe someone here has it handy and will post it?    I think I'm recalling correctly that the '1' after the K..  is the code for Chevrolet.. so maybe it's a '2' for Buick?  or ??   Smiley

Gary

See Reply #3 above.
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 06:02:39 PM »

All 5 of my rims are K193 25YJ. My car is 04A Van Nuys. So the timeline from wheel stamp to car body is pretty close.
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 01:56:09 AM »

That's a close assembly timeline to your build date of your rims.
I would think that VN & Norwood were moving rather quickly by this time of the year.

My guess is is that both plants saw a drop off on manufacturing during the holidays.
They were still producing but at a slower pace.

Once everyone was back to work, I would assume that production times and dates came back together.
Alot like where your rims are so much closer to your build dates.
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 09:45:08 AM »

Here's another data point to expand on your thoughts below:  I have a YH rim with K 1 9 5 20 YH on the outside at the valve stem hole, but on the inside it shows a '4' for the month.  (see photos):

I would theorize that the 'inner' stamping is done after K-H makes/tests the rim, and then when the center is welded in, and the finished wheel meets test specs, they stamp the completed code next to the valve stem.  In the case I show here, the rim is apparently made in April of 69, but the wheel isn't *finished* until May 20.. 3 weeks or more later (which seems long but.. there may have been reasons for that at times?).   Does anyone actually know and can confirm any of the above conjecture?
PS.  Oh, and my 09C car, came with all YH rims marked as 5-20... which would be nearly 4 months between.
 

K = Kelsey Hayes (manufacturer of the rim for GM-Chevrolet)
1 = plant at Romulus, Michigan (for GM-Chevrolet)
9 = 1969 (Year of Manufacture)

Now, as I am searching around for info, in prior years of 1969...
KH rims being manufactured for Chevrolet, in my image above,
the earlier rims only used a single J after the rim stamping of the size and width.
Example :  14 X 5 J
Does the single J denote anything towards how the rim fits the brake system?
Where as, in 1969 JJ stamping, does the JJ represent anything towards brake system fitment?

What is curious to me is if the early 1969 Z28 AD rims were stamped with JJ or J ?
I would assume the the YH rims were having the JJ satmping.

In my image above, you will notice the letter A below the 14 of the 14X7 JJ stampings.
I am going to guess that this denotes the month that it was made.
This image is from one of my YJ rims in a set from January 1969.
To add, there is also a letter in the wheel center that seems to denote the month of manufacture, K-1-9 A.
On this particular rim, the A is stamped just under the GM stamp on the wheel center.
I am going to assume that the outer band was manufatured in Jaunary, 1969 by looking at this.
I am going to assume that the wheel center was manufatured in Jaunary, 1969 as well.


I decided to go and look at some of my other rims.
K-1-8 trhru K-1-9 issue.
Some of the K-1-8 rims have the Letter code in the wheel center on another of one of the 5 landings of the rim where it it can be stamped.
One set, stamped for October, 1968 denotes a 10-X date.
These rims show a K-1-8 with a Letter J.
Counting out the months, J lands on the month of October.
Thoughts....
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »



My guess is is that both plants saw a drop off on manufacturing during the holidays.
They were still producing but at a slower pace.

Once everyone was back to work, I would assume that production times and dates came back together.

Nope. The "pace" never changed - both plants ran at full linespeed all the time; there was no such thing as changing the linespeed without shutting the plant down and re-manning/re-training and re-tooling every operation in the plant. The line moved at 57 per hour at Norwood and 35 per hour at Van Nuys, every day, and they didn't have ten days off between Christmas and New Year's like they do today; they had Christmas Eve and Christmas day off, and New Year's Eve and New Year's day off.
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »

Well, I had some of my extra YJ rims chem stripped and this process really cleans up the visibilty of the the codes on the rim bands.
However, month and date codes are not consistent as it seems when they were at KH being date stamped.
Letters and numbers can be found, and can be random.
I think either is correct.
Checking date codes at the valve stems, codes in the center of the rim, to codes in the band will help somewhat in ID'ing these.
Here are a few pics from a set I am selling :

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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2013, 01:32:13 PM »

Another pic :



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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2013, 01:39:31 PM »

more pics...

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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2013, 01:43:43 PM »

I have a set that are last week 1968 and 1st week 1969 dated.

Some have K-1-8 and some have K-1-9; days apart.

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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 01:48:23 PM »

another from the 68/69 set...

On this rim shown, the center is K-1-8 and the band is K-1-9

All dated first week 1969 at the valve stem.

Ill have to check if all have the 14X7 JJ with the A stamp and no month/day codes
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 03:42:37 PM »

sometimes as i continue to look at these, the 10-8 code : that 8 sometimes, to me, appears like a letter B

Thoughts?
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 07:22:05 PM »

Could be releated to the different dishes in the centers for drum/disc brakes, 14 x 6 ralleys came in a few different offsets.
    VT
The different "dishes"  were achieved by spot welding the center at a different offset within the outer rim, the stamp denoting the different offsets were done after this procedure was done.
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 03:23:10 PM »

OK, so I found another 14x7 YJ rim.
Stamping is 14X7 JJ   10 B
The rim is a K-1-9  10-13 dated rim.
Now we have A & B  present on the bands.
So, I am continue to look into these; dates or letters exist!

Here is the letter B stamping with the 10 for the month


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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 09:29:25 AM »

The following pic is of a Oct.68 "AD" rim. I don't believe the "A" is the month. Under the "JJ" is a "10". I believe that is the month. It would be nice to see you include the "AD" rim in your research.

Do you have a pic of the date codes near the valve stem hole? I'd like to compare to mine. Thanks.
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 09:49:40 AM »

One pic shows the 13 date and the other, if you look close enough, the top of the font of the numerical 1 is present.

Cleaning these up properly, at times we can see the toolong that the letters and numbers were struck with.

The Y and J show that circle around the letters

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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2013, 06:02:17 PM »

Here you go Jimmy, Stamping is a little lite but I think you can make it out.
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