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Author Topic: Early bird special.  (Read 4215 times)
427-KING
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« on: January 18, 2013, 06:15:22 PM »

Any oddities about early firebirds as there are in camaros?? Bought these from the wife of a retired pontiac exec whos father also worked for pontiac.
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427-KING
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 06:19:51 PM »

#2
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 01:06:25 AM »

I was wondering who bought those. I am told by someone in Switzerland that "100005" is still around and owned by the same person who bought it new off the stand at the Geneva auto show in '67. Apparently it still gets driven from Switzerland to Spain once each year.
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Jon Mello
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427-KING
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 03:11:43 AM »

Jon, Is that a 400 black convertible?  I have the paperwork for #3
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 09:33:20 AM »

Those are Lordstown cars correct?
Did JohnZ have anything to do with the setups there as he did with the Chevrolet F line?
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Jon Mello
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2013, 12:04:36 PM »

Jon, Is that a 400 black convertible?  I have the paperwork for #3

Chuck, I went back and looked at the email I got from the Swiss citizen and here are some of the details I was told about 100005...

"The Car belongs to older retierd Man who lives half time in Switzerland and half time in Spain now . The 400 Firebird Convertible
is blue and it was the Car that was used in the Geneva Car Show in 67 ! He bought it after the Show in Geneva and still have it .
It one time restored and the overall Condition is good , he still drive the Car from Switzerland to Spain a few times a year."
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Jon Mello
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427-KING
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 01:10:01 PM »

Thanks Jon, I think im confusing that car with #8 which is a loaded 400 Midnight black convertible,if memory serves me .   #3 is[was] a silver/blue 326 coupe.  Car #1 was given to the daughter of the exec at pontiac who later  was responsible for reuniting   #2 with #1
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JohnZ
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 01:22:28 PM »

Those are Lordstown cars correct?
Did JohnZ have anything to do with the setups there as he did with the Chevrolet F line?

Yes, those are Lordstown cars ("U" plant code). No, I wasn't involved in the '67 Firebird launch at Lordstown - I was transferred there in early 1969 to build out the Firebird/Impala/Caprice and convert the plant for the Vega.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 09:46:40 PM »

Am I reading this correctly?
That you were involved in the builds of the last 69 Firebirds coming out of Lordstown?

If so I have a couple of questions as to what was different about assembly processes in Lordstown VS Norwood?

Did they have a separate Fisher Body plant as Norwood or was it more like the other GMAD plants and specifically Van Nuys?

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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
427-KING
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 11:40:15 PM »

Car #2 loaded HO 326,along side at an auto show with  the introduction of the new 1992 firebird,listed as the first 67 firebird hardtop built ,in 1992
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JohnZ
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 11:37:13 AM »

<< Am I reading this correctly?
That you were involved in the builds of the last 69 Firebirds coming out of Lordstown?

If so I have a couple of questions as to what was different about assembly processes in Lordstown VS Norwood?

Did they have a separate Fisher Body plant as Norwood or was it more like the other GMAD plants and specifically Van Nuys? >>

Lordstown and Norwood both had adjacent Fisher Body plants, only separated by a wall; Lordstown was unique, as the Trim Shop was "blended" - it had both Fisher and Chevrolet operations - Trim 1 was Fisher, Trim 2 was Chevrolet, Trim 3 was Fisher, etc.

In Final Assembly, there were significant differences between Norwood and Lordstown; at Norwood, the front sheet metal was installed to the body before the chassis was raised into place (just like the Van Nuys process). At Lordstown, all the front sheet metal was installed "piecemeal" (radiator support first, then fenders, then the bumpers, then the hood) on the Final Line after body drop. Photo below shows a '69 Firebird at the Lordstown Body Drop; that's me at the extreme far left, talking to Al Perttola, the Chevrolet Production Manager.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 03:22:34 PM »

NEAT photo John...     Smiley
and your hair appeared to have a bit more color in it then?? Smiley

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
427-KING
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 04:01:52 PM »

What is the car on the line in front of the firebird??
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x77-69z28
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 07:39:06 PM »

Looks like an impala
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 10:42:06 PM »

Looks like a Catalina/Bonneville to me.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 10:48:48 AM »

NEAT photo John...     Smiley
and your hair appeared to have a bit more color in it then?? Smiley

Gary

37 years in Production, including being a Plant Manager, will do that to you! :-)

The car in front of the Firebird is a Caprice "47" style, with the concave back window.
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'69 Z/28
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 03:16:44 PM »

I know what you mean John..  Smiley    most of my hair has turned 'clear'...  Smiley

Gary / 69Z28-RS
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 03:44:07 PM »

That is a good looking 69 Bird... Red with Redlines.
I see the Pontiac Axles did not have the backing plates in place when the rear ends were painted... Neat difference.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 05:18:27 PM »

You can tell that from those photographs???
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2013, 06:57:58 PM »

You can tell that from those photographs???
Quite clearly, however I do have a high def 24" LCD.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
JohnZ
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2013, 11:57:48 AM »

You can tell that from those photographs???

I have a much higher-resolution version of that photo (too large to post here), and it shows the unpainted backing plate quite clearly.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2013, 02:31:34 PM »

thanks.. Smiley ..  NOW I can see what you mean.. Smiley
so were the backing plates on Pontiac Firebirds left 'bare'.. to rust?  or ??
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
bcmiller
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2013, 03:28:05 PM »

That's a VERY COOL photo John.  Thanks for sharing.
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
427-KING
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 11:20:10 AM »

Anyone?  On the original  question about early cars having  any one off type items or parts. Probably best to pose that to a firebird enthusiast site but thought there may be someone familiar with them here. 
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68Zproject
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 07:30:29 PM »

[quote author=JohnZ link=topic=10410.msg78790#msg78790 date=1358873868

I have a much higher-resolution version of that photo (too large to post here), and it shows the unpainted backing plate quite clearly.
[/quote]

Could you e-mail it to me please John?
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68Z28
Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 07:52:31 PM »

Here you go.

Ed

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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2013, 01:34:37 PM »

It appears the exhaust is painted on both sides on the turn downs so as not to show behind the wheel in the wheel house...


Photos like this are invaluable to those of us trying to replicate assembly line authentic finishes and assemblies during our restorations.
The understanding JOHNZ has brought with the research report from sheet metal to drive off is irreplaceable to any restorer of first gens, this is why I was questioning JOHN as to the differences in the processes between the two plants. I also restore Pontiacs so any information as to how things arrived/were done within that division helps me as well.

Understanding assembly lines helps immensely when putting assemblies into cars, if done how the factory originally did it, the restorations go together correctly the first time, rather than assembling then disassembling in order to install an assembly which should have already been in place. 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 01:54:29 PM by firstgenaddict » Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
NoYenko
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2013, 11:29:59 AM »



I have a much higher-resolution version of that photo (too large to post here), and it shows the unpainted backing plate quite clearly.
[/quote]
John, Can you tell from your picture if the forward wheel well plug has undercoating sprayed on it? Thanks. George
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JohnZ
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2013, 11:35:44 AM »

John, Can you tell from your picture if the forward wheel well plug has undercoating sprayed on it? Thanks. George

Hard to tell, but I'd say it doesn't.
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'69 Z/28
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william
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2013, 01:21:00 PM »



I have a much higher-resolution version of that photo (too large to post here), and it shows the unpainted backing plate quite clearly.

Firebirds used Pontiac-produced rear axles. Camaro rear axles were painted after assembly including brake drums and backing plates. Plenty of photos of this in vintage car mags.
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KurtS
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 12:11:17 PM »

Why are there no tailpipe(s) coming out of the muffler? I thought the complete system was installed in 1 piece.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 12:42:55 PM »

This looks like a single exhaust. I see the tailpipe on the right side but the tip is painted black.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
KurtS
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« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 02:09:22 AM »

Yeah, but to exit the car, it needs to go at least to the rear spring eye. It's not even close.
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Kurt S
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NoYenko
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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 07:43:51 AM »

Kurt, I think the muffler is being pushed up by the axle support as it is not level. And the rear axle seems to be tilted back some what causing the the spring eye lower at the rear. George
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Mike S
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« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 08:27:57 AM »

   Photography (astrophotography mainly) is one of my favorite pass times. Whoever took this picture had a very good idea how to get dept perception by shooting from an angle. The fact that we see the exhaust pipe from this vantage point will make it appear it is further back or even shorter because you can't see the length of pipe that is blocked from the bends rise out of the muffler at one side and the fall of the exhaust exit point at the other end so that is giving and interposition view of how our eyes see things so it does affect our visual depth perception. And as George pointed out the muffler does look pushed up and the axle down.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
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