Author Topic: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?  (Read 3384 times)

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« on: January 08, 2013, 04:47:15 AM »
Anyone posted this one yet ? Seems unlikely, or could be the recast block/heads - if I had $38K to spare, I'd call -

http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/3442234069.html

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

Ed_B

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:56:08 PM »
Steve I moved this to General Discussion since that's an NOS block and there won't be a VIN on it.

Ed

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 02:21:19 AM »
Ed,

    Thanks for moving it - I should have thought about the VIN before I posted it.

    Here's a twist - I mentioned this to a customer today; turns out he knows the owner (both are SS or SS/E racers), and swears that it is a legitimate ZL-1 motor he has been prompting the owner for years to sell. I would jump at the chance to verify the thing - it would be worth a dollar or two (to say the least) to a ZL-1 owner if it actually was a dated NOS block/heads combo, and not a recent GM recast. In replacement terms, one might consider it to be an orphan -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2987
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 03:19:36 AM »
After reading the first post above this morning, and being fairly close to the seller, I called and spoke with them.   The owner said the parts were still in boxes and GM crates and hadn't been opened in 40 yrs.   I asked them to remove the crate top and take photos.  I received photos of the parts tonigh.  The bare block and bare heads appear to have been manufactured in the very early 70's (date on the label of the engine crate is 2-22-73.   The owner states that he purchased the parts OTC in the early 70's.   I have some detailed (high resolution) photos if anyone desires to see them.   I'm not familiar enough with these parts to confirm.  If anyone would like to have the high res photos, send me your email address.  I'm only about 1-1/2 hrs away if anyone would like me to check out the parts first hand.
PS.  i do know from my involvement with Trans Am racers in the early/mid 70's, the ZL1 crate engines were available for quite some time into the 70's for racers.

Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 05:39:09 AM »
Gary,

I'm about 30 miles from M'boro - I'll be glad to follow up for anyone on this too. I'm through there about twice a week as it is (including tomorrow).

If it's not too much trouble, I'll send my email by PM if you will forward me copies of the pics. I'd like to see it -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2987
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 05:47:52 AM »
thanks Steve..   will do...
I told him I'd post the pix to help them sell the parts..  but they are 3 MB each..  five photos... so they can't be posted here without resizing..
Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Oaklyss

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 06:04:03 PM »
All original ZL-1 blocks were cast in 1969-about 600 or so. The heads can be dated up to 1973
69 RSSS ZL-2 4 speed, mint unrestored 04A LA built-SOLD
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire, worlds first Turbocharged Production car
1968 GTCS mint unrestored original paint
1972 AMX 401 4 speed, cowl induction, twin-grip, A/C, unrestored, original paint

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2987
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 07:52:08 PM »
Well, since it's in a crate labeled '73, that would indicate it's a '69 Casting?   if someone knows how to find/read/decode the casting codes?
PS.  Assuming it Is a '69 casting, what is the value of a new (crated) bare block and bare heads?

Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 03:54:20 AM »
Gary,

   Thanks for the pics - tremendous resolution but the files are indeed huge. Certainly an 053 casting, love the shot of the crate and the tags (particularly the "off-road use" tag. How in the world could someone keep this bottled up for 40 years and not build it - I don't have the answer.

   One head appears to be the service casting number, one is definitely an 842 - both are absolutely new appearing/bare. I do see what appears to be some surface rust areas in the block sleeves, but nothing too serious. I wouldn't kick it out of the garage for being naked -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

Oaklyss

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 12:58:23 AM »
053 castings are 1997 and up. Are the freeze plugs anodized or pipe plugs? Heads for ZL-1 would be 074 castings. I don't think any Zl-1 blocks were availible over the counter in 1973. What is the part number on the crate?
69 RSSS ZL-2 4 speed, mint unrestored 04A LA built-SOLD
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire, worlds first Turbocharged Production car
1968 GTCS mint unrestored original paint
1972 AMX 401 4 speed, cowl induction, twin-grip, A/C, unrestored, original paint

william

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 01:06:11 AM »
053 castings are 1997 and up.

Not true. #3 ZL1 had an 053 block.

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 03:24:14 AM »
Guys,

Please forgive the pictures-of-pictures - it's the only way I could figure out how to reduce the file size (pics are about 4+ MB apiece). I didn't thiink this was a '69 casting date block, as the owner said all along that he bought it in '73 new, but I had always heard (at least) the correct early casting code was an 053. Please note the Special Parts notice , with part number on the tag, plus the date. This tag is apparently right on the crate itself.

Alan Colvin stated in the C-b-t-N's that the 052 was the L88/ZL-1 block, but also mentioned that the 053 was reported (unverified) to have been installed in the first of the ZL-1's. Whether this is a service block, or a Can Am part, or one of the last of the initial casting runs through the Winter Foundry, it's certainly unique and a real surprise to see such a rare part literally in my backyard. I do also agree with Oaklyss on the 074 heads - Colvin does substantiate this, although I always thought them to be '70 and up -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

Oaklyss

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 03:35:56 AM »
Part number 3919838 is for closed chamber aluminum head. Is there another part number sticker? There is no listing for a ZL-1 engine or block in 1973. Please show a photo of the freeze plug area.
69 RSSS ZL-2 4 speed, mint unrestored 04A LA built-SOLD
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire, worlds first Turbocharged Production car
1968 GTCS mint unrestored original paint
1972 AMX 401 4 speed, cowl induction, twin-grip, A/C, unrestored, original paint

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 04:06:50 AM »
I checked my '74 parts manual before I posted the pictures - the partial or fitted 427 blocks are different part numbers. This probably appears in the Special Performance parts listings (I have one around here somewhere), which would support the part number on the tag. I do not have a clear picture of the freeze plugs. I do have a pic of the 842 head (838 part number), plus the other service part head. So far, everything appears as he described it - early 70's. No claim that it is a '69, just a ZL-1 block. Or should we call it an L88 ? One in the same ?

Just my opinion -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

1968 Z28

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 481
    • View Profile
Re: 1969 NOS ZL-1 engine possibility ?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 04:48:18 AM »
My "Heavy Duty Operational Parts" section dated July 1, 1969 states:

     3952318     427ci                     BLOCK - Bare aluminum

     3919838     396,427 ci              HEAD - aluminum                                       Suppose that this would be a closed chamber design
     3946072     427 ci (1969)          HEAD - aliminum 2nd. design                       Suppose that this would be an open chamber design


The part number shown on the Special Parts Notice tag above is probably the tag part number.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles