Author Topic: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?  (Read 4284 times)

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 11:55:04 PM »
Anything is possible if the car isn't known today.    Does anyone know the date of that tony Hulman press conference introducing the car? 

I have a copy of the press release for the intro, dated January 28, 1969.

Mark

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 12:26:40 AM »
Dealer notification letter from the engineering department went out February 4th,1969
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 06:26:05 AM »
If Indy actually had a white/orange car *labeled* as a Indy Pace Car in late January, then the following is true:
1) It would be a car built in January (or before)
2) It would not have the Z11 on the Trim Tag

and the following *could* be true:
1)  It *might* have been any Camaro convertible, but was probably white (with quick orange stripes and orange interior, and could have had 'any' available engine for the press release
2)  If that car is not *known* today, then it could be *ANY* '69 Convertible...  possibly painted in different colors, OR possibly having been 'dressed out' as a 'standard' Pace Car convertible (even with a fake TT)..?

Regardless of the above, I'd think if that car could be found, it would be valuable because it IS truly unique; even more unique than the actual cars that paced the Indy (if I remember correctly that there were two of the cars setup to be the actual pace car?), and more unique than the several hundred/thousand Pace Car Replicas which carry the Z11 on the TT...

Has anyone attempted to identify the "intro car* by VIN?  Possibly local Indianapolis dealers?, GM itself?, or even the Indy people might have record of that VIN somewhere..    :)

Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

MO

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 07:12:02 PM »
Was the Orange Houndstooth interior available prior to the pace car release? 

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 08:54:29 PM »
Was the Orange Houndstooth interior available prior to the pace car release? 

Theoretically yes; in reality, no.

Both Orange and Yellow interiors were announced to dealers in a Communications Kit release February 9, 1969. Verbiage states they "...are now available for the Camaro coupe." Neither was optional for the convertible; each required "matching exterior colors Hugger Orange, Daytona Yellow or Black." Chevy then proceeded to build 3,675 Dover White convertibles with orange interiors.

The January 2, 1969 update to the Camaro Dealer Pricing lists yellow-but not orange. The earliest coupes with yellow houndstooth were built at the same time [Norwood] as the first Z11s-02D. But if our db is any indicator orange was simply not available in a coupe for several months. The earilest example is a fairly original car built late April at Norwood. The car is well-optioned and may have been a Zone order. Virtually all orange houndstooth coupes were built after mid-May.



MO

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 03:35:52 AM »
Thanks William. That said, it would seem unlikely that a car would be pulled off the line or lot with that combo as the pace car mock up. It sounds like it has to be more deliberate than that.

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 05:40:13 AM »
*Agrees with Mo*....
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 06:35:36 PM »
According to Smokey Yunick, who pretty much had an all-access pass to Chevrolet Engineering for many years, Styling wasn't an area you just popped into. Heavy security, very limited access. Locks changed daily. So whatever went on there is largely conjecture.

Few Chevy Styling builds still exist [3rd Gen Corvette, '67 Camaro convert, '69 Camaro cut-away] and they typically began as production cars, ordered and delivered to Chevy Styling. Paperwork for the ZL1 showcar exists; it was ordered by Styling just like any other customer. So Styling maybe ordered a Dover White '69 Camaro SS-RS convert with black custom interior and made the changes. Or maybe not-the lack of front fender engine ID suggests the car may have started as a pre-production pilot build. There wasn't any reason to remove the emblems; maybe they were never there. The few photos we have of the car indicate hasty preparation so it is unlikely they would have used it for shows.

What happened to it is anyone's guess. Although heavily modified by Engineering both '69 track pace cars [built from production Z11s] were sold and driven daily for some time. So was one of the '67s. Considering how many they did, very few Styling cars seem to have gotten into private hands. Most were probably scrapped at the end of the MY. And if it was sent to the employee "pool" and sold, no one would have known or cared what it was-I doubt they left a folder full of internal documents in the glove box. If it makes it to eBay everyone will write it off as a 'clone' Z11!

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 07:02:49 PM »
true....  Unless someone can do some 'due dilligence' and search out thru Indy and GM records..  the VIN of the car?
Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 11:39:01 PM »
Assuming it had a VIN. Pre-production pilots didn't; some later acquired one in order to be sold. They didn't always have a body tag either. If it made it into the pool it would have first been registered in MI, not IN.

About 30 years ago a MI Camaro parts dealer bought a well-worn '69 Z/28. Intending to cut it up, he mentioned the low VIN to one of my long-time cronies D&R Stevie. He immediately bought the car intact: 0- intake, never had a body tag, no hidden VINs. No question about what it was. That's the story on why '69 Z/28 pilot build N500003 still exists.

Imagine what didn't get saved.

z28z11

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 04:24:55 AM »

Imagine what didn't get saved.


Now, add those to what has gone on to the Great Beyond Bone Yards in the Sky and really get depressed -
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 05:52:48 AM »
William,
I wouldn't think a mid year introduction of a 'package' of already existing options (the Z11) would require a pilot, even with the new interior option; at least not in the sense of a typical pilot which would normally be built NOT to be sold, but to be *tested*.   The Z11 was a 'sales/advertising' package to be sold....
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 01:30:05 PM »
You're mis-understanding. By Pilot I mean a pre-production car built June of '68 that was sitting around unused. Styling maybe used it for the Z11 paint/trim proposal and took it to the dinner. It wasn't a "Z11 Pilot" not really needed as you have noted. Whatever was at the dinner wasn't a production Z11.

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2013, 05:26:06 PM »
Ahhhh..      I've got you now!..  and you're right.   GM *could* have done exactly that.   Do you know if anyone has attempted to research this issue to find out 'how/who' provided that car?   It would be an interesting story if we knew..  and potentially very valuable information to whomever found out the information..  :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

william

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Re: Earliest Indy Pace Car 01C?
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2013, 06:50:27 PM »
A bud and I had a small Camaro parts business way back when and set up 1984 Chevy Tech Center show. They did a reception and the speaker was a guy from styling. He had been there since 1969 and was the only guy left from the good 'ol days. 1st Gens were phasing out by then and he had no involvement with them at all. He did remember the ZL1 showcar and it was his recollection someone there bought it as a roller to build a race car [gag]. By now there is likely no one left that worked in Styling in the '60s. Whatever they did was off the books and the records long gone.

Smokey Yunick was the recipient of at least two pilot cars: his 1st 1966 Chevelle race car and 1970 Camaro N500001. The '70 was received as a stripped body with no VIN but had a cert sticker showing it was built as a 6 cylinder. He never did anything with it and was sold "as-is" at his auction years ago. It is now "restored" and all sorts of ludicrous claims have been made about it. Bill Mitchell was given the '70 ZL1 show car and later had it updated to '78 specs. The CRG database has some very early production builds that were probably pilots as they have some unusual features. One '67 has a May '66 body tag. Years ago someone located build specs for about 10 '67s to be used as show cars. At that time they didn't have VINs but a few must have been sold later on. Some had extra wiring for show lighting and had '120V' noted on the body tag.

The best styling car is probably Corvette #1 the 1953 Motorama show car. They kept it around for some reason and eventually re-bodied it as a '55. Believe it or not it was sold like that with an 'EX' VIN and someone drove it for years. It still exists and whoever owns it will never have to worry about selling it.